Pope's stance on gays 'like Hitler'

[fix]

Digger71:

I wrote:

There is a great deal of denial on these boards about homophobia and anti-gay discrimination. I have come across posts where queer-bashing is denied, or more amusingly claims that most violence experienced by gays is when two men are fighting over a third.

I thought that was clear enough.

And then along came fix saying homophobia was an invented word to silence opponents of gay rights. And I thought that was pretty clear too.

I asked for a definition? Is every utterance you disagree with “homophobic”? The term homophobia is a slogan of intimidation.

 

[aimee]

wildleafblower:

I realize that we have an innate need to be creatively self-expressive when posting our messages, but couldn’t we learn how to dance together without stepping on toes when in cyberspace? It does seem to be a difficult task to accomplish at times. Fortunately, in the ‘real’ world, the people I know couldn’t care less about labeling people. We enjoy diversity and tend to nurture healthy relationships, which keeps the channels of communication open. Simply, we care about the feelings of those whom we have grown to love.

This was a very stimulating and informative experience for me. In my opinion, at times this thread was filled with musical tones from Robin Trower’s Bridge of Sighs and About to Begin!

Thank you

Wildleafblower

good post…you could be right…‘bridge of sighs’ indeed

 

[Vanny]

St.Sharky:

Well, actually I believe to be the other way around (not with the homosexual bit though):

**Which parents are best matched to the child, and the task of providing for that child **

OK, think about this, it may be a bit black and white but it will serve to demonstrate my point.

Two couples apply for an adoption, and there is one child (YES, i know it doesnt work like this, but bear with me). The first couple is heterosexual. The mother works in a supermarket during the day, and the father is a shift worker. The second couple is homosexual (the sex isnt relevant in this example, so make it whatever you want it to be). The homosexual couple is comprised of a lawyer and a teacher.

Now, if you were interested in the child growing up in a stable environment where they will be provided for and loved, and given a good education, which couple would you in all reality send the child to?

The hetrosexual couple. Money and education aren’t always a barameter of good parenting, either.
By placing the child with the gay couple- you would FOREVER be denying that child either a mother or a father., And I think both opposite sex parents are important to a childs development. God and Nature has made it that way- think about it- There may be single parents raising children and doing a great job- but we don’t call it optimal-
And you cannot compare gay couples to barren couples, either.
Barren couples are a circumstance where something has gone wrong-for some reason, conception cannot happen. But in most ordinary circumstances, especially when the couples are young- conception WILL happen.
Same-sex couples will NEVER produce a child,-unless they bring in a third party-either egg doner and surrogate mother, sperm doner, or adoption- it will be that way till the end of time.
Now- I am totally against any kind of violence against homosexuals of course- I think the Rev Phelps mentioned above is NO Christian- he is full of hate.
Those with homosexual orientation,as the CCC, states, did not choose that orientation and must be treated with love and respect.
All of us are born with the pre-dispostion to sin. But the Bible lists which sins we may not commit-
I one can have compassion for homsexuals and yet not sanction Gay marriage/and adoption.
The only reason the issue of gay marriage is even being debated is because around 1930 we got away from the idea of marriage being for procreation. Marriage is both unitve and pro-creative and for the rearing and education of children.
But in modern times marriage is for love and companionship, not procreation- so of course, gay marriage and adoption will be pushed for- later
polyamory and polygamy as well.

 

[Kristopher]

St.Sharky:

…**Which parents are best matched to the child, and the task of providing for that child **

OK, think about this, it may be a bit black and white but it will serve to demonstrate my point.

Two couples apply for an adoption, and there is one child…The first couple is heterosexual. The mother works in a supermarket during the day, and the father is a shift worker. The second couple is homosexual…The homosexual couple is comprised of a lawyer and a teacher.

Now, if…interested in the child growing up in a stable environment…loved, and given a good education, which couple would you in all reality send the child to?

Dear St. Sharkey:

The question was directed to someone else, nonetheless, I thought that I would join the fun.

I would choose the heterosexual couple of course, I see nothing stable about homosexual relationships–intrinsicly: homosexual relationships are unstable, because homosexuality is a disorder before it is ever a sin. A disorder is an instability. It would be impossible for the homosexual couple both to love and to give a good education to the child–there is nothing good about educating people, let alone children, that homosexuality is anything else apart from a disorder, and love of children among those characterized by the disorder of homosexuality to the extent that having children becomes the goal–contradicts the nature of the disorder, which means: homosexuality as a disorder can be re-ordered to the desire of having children and therefore, as a matter of sequence–the opportunity not of parenting children by whatever means, but the opportunity both of mating and of marrying with the opposite sex should be sought by the person, once or still characterized by homosexuality, a disorder, correct?

Most sincerely,

Kristopher

 

[wabrams]

St.Sharky:

Ah, right, so is this what you really think is best for the child or is this what you think will get you a fast track ticket to heaven?

I think it is the absolute, with a doubt, best choice for a child; and don’t you even begin to question my beliefs.

 

[Digger71]

Kristopher:

I would choose the heterosexual couple of course, I see nothing stable about homosexual relationships–intrinsicly: homosexual relationships are unstable, because homos… be re-ordered to the desire of having children and therefore, as a matter of sequence–the opportunity not of parenting children by whatever means, but the opportunity both of mating and of marrying with the opposite sex should be sought by the person, once or still characterized by homosexuality, a disorder, correct?

Circular, filtered by apriori reasoning, illogical, uninformative.

Dismissed.

 

[bones_IV]

Digger71:

Circular, filtered by apriori reasoning, illogical, uninformative.

Dismissed.

Dissmissed? Only in delusion land.

 

[trustmc]

Libero:

But AIDS is not a gay disease… it is easier for homosexuals to contract AIDS - but then again, many studies show that it is easier for blacks to contract AIDS (due to resiliance levels). Besides that, the rate of AIDS among heterosexuals is now higher than among homosexuals.

I never said AIDS was a gay disease or exclusivley a gay disease. You’re putting words in my mouth and, again, setting up a straw man arguement. I said “consenting adults.” This includes prostitutes and their customers, drug abusers, adulterers/swingers, fornicators, and not just homosexuals. All of these people are “consenting adults” when it comes to their behavior whether gay or straight, and all of these people are responsible either directly or indirectly for spreading AIDS and infecting even hemophiliacs and infants. So, yes, sin does spread its misery to the innocent.

Libero:

And yes, whilst I agree with you that you can manipulate the natural argument to support most points of view, does this argument not also quell the idea that homosexuality is a choice, or psychologically determined?

No, it doesn’t. So long as people have a choice to act on their temptations, then homosexual behavior will always be a choice. Men and women can have an involuntary same-sex attraction, but that doesn’t mean they are involuntarily compelled to act on them. They can choose not to the same way all of us are called to choose to not act on our own sinful desires.

Mike

 

[Digger71]

trustmc:

I never said AIDS was a gay disease or exclusivley a gay disease. You’re putting words in my mouth and, again, setting up a straw man arguement. I said “consenting adults.” This includes prostitutes and their customers, drug abusers, adulterers/swingers, fornicators, and not just homosexuals. Mike

A number of anomolous infections have occured over the years and the CDC have put this down to infections by vampires with sloppy eating habits.

The general public has not been informed as the panic caused by knowing vampires are real would outweigh the risks of infection by vampire bite.

I have met this vampire, he introduces himself with a thick carpathian accent saying “I am Vlad…vlad to meet you mwaah-haa-ha-ha-ha”

 

[ElJay]

BlindSheep:

Look, if I posted research showing gay households were harmful to kids (which others have already done) you would simply dismiss it as biased, or as a side effect of society’s lack of acceptance. The bottom line is that for you, making sure that gays can get the children they want is more important than protecting children from harmful environments, so no amount of evidence would sway you.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

three words:

LOOK WHO’S TALKING

“no amount of evidence would sway you.” That is the hypocrytical statement of the year! You yourself have ignored basic facts presenented to you in previous posts! You dont seem to notice anything in posts that prove a point against you exept gramatical errors!

What are you?

 

[wabrams]

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!

three words:

LOOK WHO’S TALKING

“no amount of evidence would sway you.” That is the hypocrytical statement of the year! You yourself have ignored basic facts presenented to you in previous posts!

Those “facts” are at times speculation at best. It’s like evolutionists: one little weird fact or suspected fact comes up and all of the sudden they’re right/

ElJay:

You dont seem to notice anything in posts that prove a point against you exept gramatical errors!

What are you?

It goes both ways. BTW,it’s spelled except.

 

[ElJay]

wabrams:

Happens everyday: people are turned down everyday do to having people living in the household who are a negative influence (an alcoholic, uses drugs, etc.).

Yeah - spot the problem with that statement. (an alcoholic, uses drugs etc.) DING! alcoholism and drug use are lifestyle choices - not sexual orientations.

go home

 

[wabrams]

ElJay:

Yeah - spot the problem with that statement. (an alcoholic, uses drugs etc.) DING! alcoholism and drug use are lifestyle choices - not sexual orientations.

Note I said etc. I’d say that the waters now have gotten muddy enough that lifestyle choices and sexual orientation are now the same thing. Until the last decade or so; sexual orientation meant your sex or gender and lifestyle choice was the way you lived your life, like being a drug addict, alcoholic, adrenaline junky, homosexual, etc.

ElJay:

go home

??

 

[ElJay]

Kristopher:

You may have heard it in the past, but you and I in our sins crucified Jesus, one of the three persons of the most Holy Trinity and therefore, God. For us and for our salvation He did this. God loves us

I was born in in 1990 - jesus was crucified almost 2000 years ago… Am i supposed to stop in the middle of knocking over my local 7/11 to steal contraception, burn bibles and murder the clerk to think “hey, i better stop this - im crucifying jesus!” Wheres the logic in that?

What most of you are saying is that homosexuality is bad because some dead guy noone can prove actually existed told you so… I could rebuke all of you individually but yeah… :yawn: I’m really not that devoted to making a bunch of people i don’t know, from a country i will probabally never visit accept something or other i am meant to be passionate - as a liberal, about forcing everyone to accept…

off to bed now to rest in the inky bliss of not having to care

 

[wabrams]

ElJay:

I was born in in 1990

That explains a lot regarding your posts.

ElJay:

• jesus was crucified almost 2000 years ago… Am i supposed to stop in the middle of knocking over my local 7/11 to steal contraception, burn bibles and murder the clerk to think “hey, i better stop this - im crucifying jesus!” Wheres the logic in that?

What most of you are saying is that homosexuality is bad because some dead guy noone can prove actually existed told you so… I could rebuke all of you individually but yeah… :yawn: I’m really not that devoted to making a bunch of people i don’t know, from a country i will probabally never visit accept something or other i am meant to be passionate - as a liberal, about forcing everyone to accept…

off to bed now to rest in the inky bliss of not having to care

To be 16 and know everything again!

 

[trustmc]

Digger71:

A number of anomolous infections have occured over the years and the CDC have put this down to infections by vampires with sloppy eating habits.

The general public has not been informed as the panic caused by knowing vampires are real would outweigh the risks of infection by vampire bite.

I have met this vampire, he introduces himself with a thick carpathian accent saying “I am Vlad…vlad to meet you mwaah-haa-ha-ha-ha”

We should be so lucky if all it took was hanging some garlic around our door posts to prevent AIDS and the consequences of other people’s sins.

Mike

 

[Kristopher]

Digger71:

Circular, filtered by apriori reasoning, illogical, uninformative.

Dismissed.

You see homosexuality as what: something other than a disorder, and you do not believe homosexuals who have a desire to raise children should in fact seek to have children through heterosexual means?

 

[Kristopher]

ElJay:

I was born in in 1990 - jesus was crucified almost 2000 years ago… Am i supposed to stop in the middle of knocking over my local 7/11 to steal contraception, burn bibles and murder the clerk to think “hey, i better stop this - im crucifying jesus!” Wheres the logic in that?

What most of you are saying is that homosexuality is bad because some dead guy noone can prove actually existed told you so…

You do not believe in Jesus, so, no: it would be illogical to expect you to stop whatever immoral acts that you choose in life, on the basis that it is another sin, which murdered Jesus; nonetheless, to stop sinning: a person must recognize God’s existence–how else can sin be recognized? Sin is the perversion of the liberty God has given us to choose to accept God’s existence, or to deny God’s existence.

You will have to prove that myself and others here oppose homosexuality on the basis of something Jesus said, I am not certain Jesus ever said anything about homosexuality, but I am certain in a Bible, not the Bible, but a Bible: homosexuality is condemned. The point of what the Bible says is relevant; nonetheless, what difficulty do you find seeing that homosexuality is a disorder, because where opposing sexes procreate by means of reproduction–homosexuals with their reproductive organs do not procreate? Like masturbation essentially defines the use of reproductive organs for pleasure and therefore, reduces them to a toy–homosexuality, too, denies the full potency of what it is to be male; what it is to be female and therefore, sexual intercourse that is homosexual reduces people to a toy; though within heterosexual relationships sex is experienced for pleasure, in healthy relationships this is for intimacy and without denying childbirth to exist–an impossibility in a homosexual relationship.

Most sincerely,

Kristopher

 

[Digger71]

Kristopher:

You see homosexuality as what: something other than a disorder, and you do not believe homosexuals who have a desire to raise children should in fact seek to have children through heterosexual means?

It’s just like being left handed, nothing wrong with it, just atypical.

and i’ll tell you something weird about parenting. parents spend a lot of their time looking down their noses at other parents, tutting and tsking, exchanging glances and saying “well, I wouldnt do it like that”.

I’m not impressed.

I dont really care where the kids come from. I’m more concerned about what happens to them once they’re here. And I think the objection to gays parenting is that “they’re not like us”.

 

[Digger71]

Kristopher:

You will have to prove that myself and others here oppose homosexuality on the basis of something Jesus said, I am not certain Jesus ever said anything about homosexuality, but I am certain in a Bible, not the Bible, but a Bible: homosexuality is condemned.

Not actually true. As has been demonstrated at great length the biblical condemnations are nothing of the sort. But that doesnt matter.

If at any stage scripture demonstrates other interpretations someone wheels out solar scripture arguments.