Pope's words about daily mass goers

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When we see a headline like this, our first impulse (before even clicking on the article) should be to seek out what Pope Francis actually said in context.

Here is Zenit’s translation, which is generally pretty reliable and free from polemics:

zenit.org

GENERAL AUDIENCE: On the Our Father - ZENIT - English

'Prayer is done from the heart, from within'
zenit.org zenit.org

The official Vatican translation is usually a week behind, but will eventually be here:

http://w2.vatican.va/content/france...papa-francesco_20190102_udienza-generale.html
 
Why are so many taking offense at this?
I can’t help but to think it is because these words of the Holy Father are a little too close to home.

The Pope is not saying that daily Mass is not a good thing. And he is not encouraging anyone NOT to attend.

What he is doing, in true Ignatian style, is asking people to look at what their motivations are.

If you are just going to daily Mass, practicing a bunch of devotions, following a bunch of “rules” then saying 'Oh, I do this, I do that, I’m so holy", yet will be the first person to condemn the one who does not fit into their standards, you are the person he is speaking to. If not, chill out!

Methinks this whole thing is much ado about nothing, and almost proof that the Holy Father was correct.
 
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Weserthy said:
in no way would it be better to be an atheist than a sinful mass-goer
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Yet, the Lord spoke to the church at Laodicea and said:

“I know your works; I know that you are neither cold nor hot.* I wish you were either cold or hot.16* So, because you are lukewarm, neither hot nor cold, I will spit you out of my mouth.17* i For you say, ‘I am rich and affluent and have no need of anything,’ and yet do not realize that you are wretched, pitiable, poor, blind, and naked.18
 
It should not be lost in the conversation, that the subject of this address by the Pope is prayer, secondarily scandal and gossip (not about daily mass goers) and he uses a contemporary example of the scripture:
Matt 6:5 “And when you pray, do not be like the hypocrites, for they love to pray standing in the synagogues and on the street corners to be seen by others.
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I would propose to anyone offended, “If the shoe does not fit, do not wear it.”

Yet it should be possible to take whatever small teaching one can from any pastor’s preaching, and if it remains lacking, still no loss, as this can be simply one more occasion for prayer, for the pastor, for oneself. Thanks be to God.

The Pope’s address is on the Vatican website, but in Italian. Another poster said official translation will be available later.

Meanwhile, there is a translation at post #23. If interested, read and take to heart what the Lord speaks to you, through His servant, Francis.

EDIT: post #64 by @Joe_5859 seems to be a fuller translation. Please. Do not leave this thread without reading it. 🙂🙏
 
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tafan2 said:
I do not want to bash Pope Francis, but why? He asks howa y times? Very, very few. The poeple I know who go to daily mass are the most kind people i inow. Why imply otherwise? Makes little sense to me. These people don’t deserve it.
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The headline is another example of biased, agenda-driven reporting.

If you read the article in the link he actually says:
“How many times do we see the scandal of those people who go to church, and are there all day or go every day, and then they live hating others or talking badly about people. This is a scandal. It is better not to go to Church if you live like that, like an atheist. But if you go to Church, live like a child, like a sibling, and give a true testimony, not a false testimony.”
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What he is saying, is “don’t bother coming to Church if you go around hating or spreading calumny, stay home like an atheist”.

The syntax of the Holy Father’s statement is a bit twisted, I suspect a bad and overly quick translation, but nowhere in that statement does it say “it is better to be an atheist than go to Mass hating the world…”
 
Read any thread on this forum about Fr. Jim Martin or any ministry at all to anyone who identifies as “gay”.

Or this one, where there are real Catholics who are advocating the harassment and abuse of gay Catholics in the name of being ‘holy’.
 
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One thing I noticed with Zenit’s translation is that it does not mention the word “Mass” at all. It speaks of “those people who go to church and are there all day or go every day and then live hating others or speaking badly of people.” That’s not necessarily the same thing as a “daily Mass goer”.

In any case, even if it does mean “someone who goes to daily Mass”, it’s not talking about everyone who goes to daily Mass, but only those who go every day “and then live hating others.” That is a scandal. I don’t think Pope Francis is saying that most people who go to Church every day are like this.

I don’t know why people take these things as a personal insult. It’s part of Pope Francis’ teaching style. He paints a hypothetical picture of the type of person we want to not emulate. And then he says, “Don’t be like that.” That’s good advice even if there is no single actual person who fits that description.
 
CilladeRoma said:
I can’t help but to think it is because these words of the Holy Father are a little too close to home.
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It seems uncharitable to assume that if someone has problems with the statement it is because it applies to him. It seems especially so when people have offered reasonable explanations for what they find problematic.
 
I have yet to see any “reasonable” explanation as to why the words of the Holy Father are so bad.
 
Well that is a problem. Several reasonable arguments were made based on the translation offered. You may disagree but that isn’t the same as an argument being unreasonable.
 
Then the problem should be with the translation, not with the Holy Father.

Maybe, if people would wait for “official” translations, they would not have so much trouble actually understanding what the man is saying.
 
What the Holy Father said may not be what the translation says. The translation may be what he meant to say. Or it may reflect more consideration of how what was said was taken. If the Holy Father is going to speak then we can’t blame people for listening to what he actually says. That isn’t to say that since the words are translated there can’t be problems with the translation.
 
In the end, it is the translation of the “heart” that matters, isn’t it? Firstly, take the attitude of perhaps, Mary, sitting at the Lord’s feet, hearing only what comes from the heart of Jesus.
 
CilladeRoma said:
Or this one , where there are real Catholics who are advocating the harassment and abuse of gay Catholics in the name of being ‘holy’.
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In which some posters actually defend vandalism, violence, and death threats. Defend them.
 
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tafan2 said:
Furthermore, as to the media taking his words out of context, he should realize by now that’s how the media works with every public figure. That is why they need to be very careful about what they say.
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Anything can be taken out of context if you really want to, as many do with Pope Francis. The only way to avoid it would be to say nothing. And then he’d be criticized for that.
 
He was speaking about “those” people who go to church everyday…not “all” people who go to church every day…I’m sure as a priest in his lifetime he’s seen more hypocrites at church than any of us have…just more Pope Francis bashing by the usual crowd here on CAF
 
Wow, a lot on here.
I specifically put in ‘quotes’ because, going back to my first post, it is all about perception, isn’t it? Somebody sees an action of a person going to daily Mass and perceives that person as a rigid Pharisee (I’m not saying the Pope said this or believes it); somebody else sees the action of a person going to daily Mass and sees a “normal Catholic”, " a person who loves God’ etc.

We don’t know the heart of any given individual going to daily Mass (my own experience is it’s far more likely they love God on the inside as well as the perceived ‘outside’). But depending on who you are and what your own perceptions are, you might see that same person differently. You might, for example, see them going to daily Mass for a week, then hear them for example gossiping about a person. And you’ll think, “Hah, that person is a horrible Catholic, pretending to be holy” and unconsciously, you’ll start looking for any Catholic who seems to be ‘holier than thou’ and try to find faults that ‘prove’ your perception of ‘such people’ as being bad.

Or you might see a person going to daily Mass regularly and then see them out at a local soup kitchen, volunteering at the school, always smiling and gentle, and think, "Daily Mass goers are such loving people’.

Thing is, that person gossiping may have done so only once, repented, and never gossiped again. And the person going to the soup kitchen may have done so for a year or two, and then ‘backslid’. So each person could have exactly the opposite ‘inside’ that somebody else ‘perceives them’ as having.

It is very dangerous to assume that a person who is part of a group, or doing a specific action, must be part of that group because of a whole constellation of ‘perceptions’ of that group (which will differ from person to person);, or that a person doing an action is doing so for a whole constellation of supposed ‘reasons’.

I think Pope Francis wants us to think long and hard about our perceptions.

If it makes us uncomfortable to think about daily Mass goers maybe being hateful on the inside, is that because we don’t want to think that our perception of daily Mass goers being kind and normal could be wrong?

Conversely, if we’re uncomfortable thinking that daily Mass goers might indeed be ‘just plain folks’, is that because we ourselves are automatically judging people based on our own perceptions? Do we not want to think that maybe automatically labeling people "holier than thou’ could be wrong as well?
 
It is a common refrain anytime anyone questions something or critiques a homily. Posts of “it must have hit too close to home!”

Actually, it didn’t hit close at all, just didn’t make sense to me. But good to know people who question things or have issues with statements or homilies from the Holy See need not voice them. That’s always good for the Church and recruiting new Catholics.

Even with it translated as some have said he intended, I am not sure I entirely agree. I wouldn’t tell the most evil-doing person in the world to avoid adoration, for example. I get the gist I think - doing “things” become meaningless if our hearts are not aligned to Christ. I think…
 
Back in 2016, Pope Francis said that parish secretaries are like “disciples of Satan” and we “scare people” away from churches. It stung for a bit, and then I realized he is not talking about me.
 
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