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FanChan
Guest
I’m assuming you’re just making a clarification and not suggesting that I had the two confused?
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mrpathetic
Guest
Yes, I think you understand the difference. However, you would be amazed at how few people - even hard-core Christians - do not understand this difference. So I was directing this at others in this forum, who may not comprehend this point.
They think that the purpose of Christianity is to make people happy. It is not. It is to love and serve the Lord. This can bring Joy, but not necessarily happiness. Indeed, in serving Christ, you may experience the reverse of happiness - pure suffering.
Joy (not happiness) is a fruit of the Spirit, and if the Spirit lives in us, then we will bear these fruits. See Galatians 5:
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In contrast, the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, generosity, faithfulness,
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gentleness, self-control. Against such there is no law.
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Now those who belong to Christ (Jesus) have crucified their flesh with its passions and desires.
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If we live in the Spirit, let us also follow the Spirit.
Notice not just what is on the list, but what is not on the list. Happiness is not there. Again, happiness is temporary, but Joy is permanent. Happiness comes from serving pleasures of the flesh; Joy comes from serving God.
I remember one old, ridiculous C&W song that was popular about 20 years ago. Its title was “Dear Lord, won’t you buy me a Mercedes Benz?” The song was satirical; it intended to poke fun at Christians who expect the Lord to make them happy through temporal rewards. But these Christians don’t need a new luxury import sedan; they need a better understanding of what discipleship means.
So if you are expecting the Holy Spirit to make you happy, guess again. You may experience joy, but not happiness.
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HopeSE
Guest
Isn’t “joy” just a subset of happiness? I mean, if something brings you “joy” wouldn’t it be virtually impossible to NOT find happiness in that act or moment?
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mrpathetic
Guest
Actually, I would state it in reverse. Joy is a state of permanent happiness and satisfaction, which can only be obtained by fulfilling the will of the Lord. No other form of happiness is as permanent or sustaining.
Aquinas had an excellent description of the differences between joy and happiness. An article on this difference can be found here:
catholic.com/thisrock/2006/0610fea2.asp
Aquinas refers to joy as “supernatural happiness”, which can only be granted by God. We really cannot feel the fullness of Joy, until our souls are united with the Almighty in Heaven. Until that time, the material world, and its numerous distractions, prevent us from experiencing the complete Joy of the Lord.
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LucyK
Guest
Someone said earlier in this thread that men who are addicted to porn might not be able to validly marry. I wonder if my marriage is valid. Like I said earlier, my husband uses porn/m-ing to relieve himself. We recently went 18 months without relations. We’ve been to counseling, but he just doesnt want to change. He admitted to me a few years ago, that he NEVER planned on giving up porn after we married. (I caught him with it once.) And the times earlier in our marriage, when we we going to counseling, he was just “playing the game” to get me off his back. He never planned to give it up.
He takes reeeeeeally long showers.
What’s even more complicating is…we otherwise have a great life. He’s a great father, a generous and fun person to be around, very pleasant to live with, and has a wonderful attitude and a positive outlook on life. However, due to his addiction, we are practically celibate. It is heartbreaking.
I don’t know what to do. I don’t want to be sinning by living in a possibly invalid marriage, yet my life is everything I could have wanted…except for the sex part…
He takes reeeeeeally long showers.
What’s even more complicating is…we otherwise have a great life. He’s a great father, a generous and fun person to be around, very pleasant to live with, and has a wonderful attitude and a positive outlook on life. However, due to his addiction, we are practically celibate. It is heartbreaking.
I don’t know what to do. I don’t want to be sinning by living in a possibly invalid marriage, yet my life is everything I could have wanted…except for the sex part…
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whatevergirl
Guest
*Hi Lucy–so sorry you’re going through this…Someone said earlier in this thread that men who are addicted to porn might not be able to validly marry. I wonder if my marriage is valid. Like I said earlier, my husband uses porn/m-ing to relieve himself. We recently went 18 months without relations. We’ve been to counseling, but he just doesnt want to change. He admitted to me a few years ago, that he NEVER planned on giving up porn after we married. (I caught him with it once.) And the times earlier in our marriage, when we we going to counseling, he was just “playing the game” to get me off his back. He never planned to give it up.
He takes reeeeeeally long showers.
What’s even more complicating is…we otherwise have a great life. He’s a great father, a generous and fun person to be around, very pleasant to live with, and has a wonderful attitude and a positive outlook on life. However, due to his addiction, we are practically celibate. It is heartbreaking.
I don’t know what to do. I don’t want to be sinning by living in a possibly invalid marriage, yet my life is everything I could have wanted…except for the sex part…
Does he say WHY he chooses to not give it up? Does he see nothing wrong with having no sex for 18 months?
*
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LucyK
Guest
He enjoys it.
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mrpathetic
Guest
I don’t know the man, but I know what his problems are: selfishness, childishness, immaturity, and disobedience.
If he refuses to give up MB - a childish thing - then start treating him like a child.
Instead of making dinner for him one night, buy some baby food, heat it up, and serve it to him. Instead of doing his laundry, buy him a box of Pampers, and put it in his dresser drawer. For his next father’s day/birthday/anniversary gift, buy him a pacifier and a rattle.
Treat him the way he is - a selfish, disobedient child. In effect, he needs to be treated like a spoiled brat.
Eventually, he will get the point, and change.
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whatevergirl
Guest
lol you’re funny today, mr p.
I am not sure of doing all that, but Lucy, you have my prayers! 
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mrpathetic
Guest
I may be funny, but I am dead serious. (I am in somewhat of a whimsical mode, because today is my first day off from work in months.)lol you’re funny today, mr p.
Look, Lucy: your love your husband, correct? And you want the best for him, correct? This includes salvation, correct?
Your husband is living in mortal sin. If he died today, he would die in mortal sin. What happens to souls who are unrepentant of mortal sin? We all know the answer to that question.
Masturbation is clearly defined as mortal sin, in the catechism. This is true of any type of sexual misconduct. It is always gravely sin.
You list the following characteristics of your husband: “He’s a great father, a generous and fun person to be around, very pleasant to live with, and has a wonderful attitude and a positive outlook on life.”
I have to say it, but in God’s eyes, this counts for nothing. If he dies in a state of mortal sin, you know the result.
So do what you can, to put a stop to this. I don’t know if the “Pampers” approach will work - this is a suggestion that I made, based on limited information. You’re his spouse, so you can probably gauge better than any of us, what approach will work.
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p.s., I know my position on this subject have been controversial. If you are going to object to my approach, please tell me a) if any of my advice has violated any part of the canons, and b) if anything I have said has been uncharitable.
There is nothing more charitable than saving someone from a life of mortal sin.
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whatevergirl
Guest
*While I understand where you’re coming from, mr p…and I agree with the premise, we can’t determine who is in a state of mortal sin. Her husband may not see the gravity of the situation–he might know it hurts his wife, but his ‘enjoyment’ of it, supercedes his wife’s feelings. Or he may just not know how to stop…it may have become an ingrained habit, sadly. Without a doubt, it falls into the grave matter category, but we don’t know if God considers Lucy’s husband in a state of mortal sin, because we don’t know the intent and motives as to why he continues the sin. God is all merciful, and we have no idea who will go to heaven, that being said. Remember, for a mortal sin to be present, three things must exist.
And a spouse can only do so much…it is not our ‘fault’ if our spouses wish to remain in sin. We can help, be supportive, and even try to coax our loved ones out of sin, but it’s ultimately up to the person to give up the sin. I can’t go to confession and offer my husband’s sins up …I can only offer my own. We can pray and help one another as spouses, but we are not responsible for our spouse’s state of soul. You are not responsible for the fact that your wife has decided to stop having relations with you. You tried your best, I’m sure you pray for your wife, but you are not responsible for your wife ‘getting to heaven.’ As spouses, we can help our spouses to see the err of their ways, and to not turn a blind eye to sin…but, other than that, we cannot stop someone from sinning, if he/she is not willing to forfeit it.
*
And a spouse can only do so much…it is not our ‘fault’ if our spouses wish to remain in sin. We can help, be supportive, and even try to coax our loved ones out of sin, but it’s ultimately up to the person to give up the sin. I can’t go to confession and offer my husband’s sins up …I can only offer my own. We can pray and help one another as spouses, but we are not responsible for our spouse’s state of soul. You are not responsible for the fact that your wife has decided to stop having relations with you. You tried your best, I’m sure you pray for your wife, but you are not responsible for your wife ‘getting to heaven.’ As spouses, we can help our spouses to see the err of their ways, and to not turn a blind eye to sin…but, other than that, we cannot stop someone from sinning, if he/she is not willing to forfeit it.
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Rico_S
Guest
Yeah…this is uncharitable, and will likely drive a wedge further between husband and wife. Pretty awful advice, imo.
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mrpathetic
Guest
These mitigating factors could exist. But if they have been to counseling, then surely the spouse knows how much this is hurting his wife. And if the counseling was Catholic or Christian-based, then surely counselor told him that this was sinful. So he can’t claim ignorance of the sinfulness of this conduct, or the impact it has been having on his wife and marriage.
Perhaps the husband is truly addicted to MB. Yes, that could be a mitigating factor. If that is the case, then he needs a psychiatrist, not Pampers. He then needs to schedule an appointment with a decent, faith-based mental health professional - one that can help him overcome this disorder. Some secular MHPs actually consider MB to be healthy and beneficial. Sorry, he needs to stay away from those individuals. They would make a bad situation worse.
And no, Lucy is not responsible for her husband’s conduct. He is. But she should do all she can, to help him overcome this sinful behavior.
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whatevergirl
Guest
*Maybe she has done all she can…again, her husband has to ***want ***to stop. If he is making no attempts at changing, she can only do so much. *
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mrpathetic
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Sorry, I prefer to take the Padre Pio approach to charity:
“I beg you not to criticize me by invoking charity, because the greatest charity is to deliver souls held fast by Satan in order to win them over to Christ.”
olrl.org/lives/padrepio.shtml
Good ol’ Padre Pio. I guess he was the forerunner of today’s idea of “tough love.”
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Jesuslives
Guest
Kaily, I share your feelings. It is good that he is trying though, if you guys get through this I think your relationship will be stronger and better!
I have a similar problem with my boyfriend. On one hand he admitted he thought it was wrong and he claims he has stopped completely out of his love for me. But anytime I question him because of my lack of trust he gets very defensive. It has caused me great anxiety and sadness. I wake up with nightmares and my trust has been diminished.
I will pray for you!
I have a similar problem with my boyfriend. On one hand he admitted he thought it was wrong and he claims he has stopped completely out of his love for me. But anytime I question him because of my lack of trust he gets very defensive. It has caused me great anxiety and sadness. I wake up with nightmares and my trust has been diminished.
I will pray for you!
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mrpathetic
Guest
Hate to say it, but I really think you need to find a new boyfriend.
I would give you the same counsel that I would give to my adult daughter: find someone else.
Don’t put yourself through this misery. Find someone who you can trust.
You don’t want to be going through this nightmare when you are married, now do you?
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HopeSE
Guest
Wow, this seems rather harsh. At some point you have to consider whether physical attraction is the issue. I mean, once that’s gone for one party, you have a choice to make. If you’re friends, and enjoy each other, why not allow the person to watch porn?
If you can’t live without having marital relations, then file for divorce. Harsh, but true. I mean who wants to force someone under duress to have sex with them. That’s kind of creepy.
It seems other than the physical aspect of her relationship everything else is great. Under your scenario why wouldn’t she just ask for a divorce? That’s the next step after he gets baby food for dinner or Pampers.
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Rico_S
Guest
Delivering souls to Christ is fine, the problem lies that your method is extremely unlikely to do so b/c it is quite uncharitable. Very few are going to react positively to the treatment you propose. Athough, it will probably make her feel “happy” to do this–in a vindictive sort of way. Perhaps this method has proven effective with your relationships, but I can’t imagine it being a success in the one being discussed here.
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mrpathetic
Guest
Both divorce and pornography are inherent wrong and sinful. The catechism is quite clear on this. The wife should not tolerate the pornography, or file for divorce. She shouldn’t have to live with a porn addict, or without a husband. Neither is an acceptable outcome.
Instead, she should work to bring her spouse back to purity, in mind and in spirit. Ultimately, it is his choice to do this, but she should enable this change, whenever possible.
I have recommended Every Man’s Battle in other posts. If you cannot afford a MHP, the OP could go down this route. It is less expensive, but much more effective.
everymansbattle.com/
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