Portland [Maine] bishop says Catholic Church won’t actively campaign against gay marriage [this time]

[sw85]

Once Catholic, always Catholic. Doesn’t mean they’re good Catholics, but they’re still Catholics.

Yes. I prefer to call them “Catholics” (quotation marks included) for this reason.

 

[Tigg]

It takes a spine to live a life full of celibacy and joyful service to a diverse group of people, which most of the armchair commentators aren’t leading. Even Peter, our first Pope, struggled with the approval of others.

But the essence of the job is the saving of souls by moral guidance and instruction despite its unpopularity.

 

[johnnykins]

There is, and for a long time has been, a wide difference between a civil marriage (which some statutes define as a contract) and a sacramental marriage. Each is governed by different laws; the former by the secular civil law, the latter by canon law. Both bodies of law operate independently. Nothing in any civil law allowing same sex marriage claims or even suggests any effect on canon law. Regardless what changes may be made in the civil law, the Church will not have to recognize any civil marriage as sacramental. This seems much like divorce. Civil law may recognize it as valid, but the Church may not and refuse annulment. If I am wrong about this, I am sure someone will straighten me out.

Of course you are right on target. Civil marriage is not a sacramental marriage at all. It is a basket of rights: certain tax rights, certain ownership rights, rights as next of kin, rights to certain benefits in the workplace, etc.

Gay marriage, like divorce or contraception, may have certain moral or societal affects, but without widespread consensus I do not see how the Church can sustain its moral position in the voting milieu. I think this Bishop is on the right track. If the moral position is so evident and appropriate for the good of society, he needs to make sure that we understand and accept the position. Otherwise I fear, as with divorce and contraception, the Church will not come off well.

 

[LovePatience]

Of course you are right on target. Civil marriage is not a sacramental marriage at all. It is a basket of rights: certain tax rights, certain ownership rights, rights as next of kin, rights to certain benefits in the workplace, etc.

Gay marriage, like divorce or contraception, may have certain moral or societal affects, but without widespread consensus I do not see how the Church can sustain its moral position in the voting milieu. I think this Bishop is on the right track. If the moral position is so evident and appropriate for the good of society, he needs to make sure that we understand and accept the position. Otherwise I fear, as with divorce and contraception, the Church will not come off well.

However, there are other areas. Venues have been forced to rent facilities for weddings or be sued for discrimination. Pastors have been accused of hate speech. Right now, we have an issue where the Catholic Church is opposed in its restrictions on communion to those in this lifestyle. There have also been situations where Catholic charities that did not support gay adoption have had to close or protest when a Catholic church doesn’t want to employ someone in an open lifestyle.

 

[Not_Sure_1]

It takes a spine to live a life full of celibacy and joyful service to a diverse group of people, which most of the armchair commentators aren’t leading. Even Peter, our first Pope, struggled with the approval of others.

Peter denied Our Lord three times, and was about to run away from Rome.
But then he walked back and led himself to be crucified for Christ Jesus.

It’s not a bout gaining approval, it’s about doing the right thing when the time calls for it.
Now is the time to oppose the persecution, not to remain silent.

Pray for the Bishop. Remember how St. Francis converted the unfaithful Bishop.

 

[Jaypeeto4]

**Once Catholic, always Catholic. Doesn’t mean they’re good Catholics, but they’re still Catholics. **

Oh REALLY ??? Once Catholic, Always Catholic? REALLY???
Then, sir,
NAZI GERMANY WAS A CATHOLIC STATE, no way around it, because
Hitler and the top 19 of his top leaders, were all former practicing Catholics
who had apostasized. That is documented fact.
Care to try again with that assertion???

Once Catholic, Always Catholic is a brazen lie.
it is no more true than Once Saved, Always Saved.

 

[Dale_M]

**Once Catholic, always Catholic. Doesn’t mean they’re good Catholics, but they’re still Catholics. **

Oh REALLY ??? Once Catholic, Always Catholic? REALLY???

It is a basic teaching of the Catholic Church.

1267 Baptism makes us members of the Body of Christ: "Therefore . . . we are members one of another."72 Baptism incorporates us into the Church. From the baptismal fonts is born the one People of God of the New Covenant, which transcends all the natural or human limits of nations, cultures, races, and sexes: "For by one Spirit we were all baptized into one body."73

1272 Incorporated into Christ by Baptism, the person baptized is configured to Christ. Baptism seals the Christian with the indelible spiritual mark (character) of his belonging to Christ. No sin can erase this mark, even if sin prevents Baptism from bearing the fruits of salvation.83 Given once for all, Baptism cannot be repeated.

vatican.va/archive/ccc_css/archive/catechism/p2s2c1a1.htm

Baptism creates an indelible mark on our soul. It can not be lost or removed.

If someone, even Hitler, was baptized Catholic and later apostatized, that person is still Catholic. And that person will be held to account for his apostasy, along with his or her other moral failings and transgressions.

 

[cjmclark]

**Once Catholic, always Catholic. Doesn’t mean they’re good Catholics, but they’re still Catholics. **

Oh REALLY ??? Once Catholic, Always Catholic? REALLY???
Then, sir,
NAZI GERMANY WAS A CATHOLIC STATE, no way around it, because
Hitler and the top 19 of his top leaders, were all former practicing Catholics
who had apostasized. That is documented fact.
Care to try again with that assertion???

Once Catholic, Always Catholic is a brazen lie.
it is no more true than Once Saved, Always Saved.

Don’t be ridiculous. Just because a country is run by a group of people of a certain faith, it doesn’t make it a country of that faith (especially if the individuals in question are apostates). Nazi Germany clearly had none of the earmarks of Catholicism (in fact, its practices were quite pagan), so this logic is flawed.

 

[CatholicMaine]

Reports of the Roman Catholic Diocese of Portland raising the white flag on marriage have been overstated. Don’t pray for the bishop to grow a spine- pray that he be given continued strength to speak boldly and forcefully.

See: catholicmaine.com/blog/blog/2012/03/08/cnn-asks-bishop-malone-why-not-get-on-board/

and

catholicnewsagency.com/news/maine-diocese-will-oppose-gay-marriage-ballot-question/

Also, visit the bishop’s marriage website: beautyofmarriage.org/