Positive Proof The Catholic Church Is The Only True Church

[Snow]

How do you account for the documented fact that we can trace apostolic succession all the way back to Peter?

Please provide the "documented fact(s) that Linus, Cletus and Clement were Popes?

I am going to make a guess, despite your claims, that there is none.

 

[Snow]

Matthew 16:18 was misinterpreted.

Matthew 16:17-18 Is speaking about TRUTH, Jesus called Peter a rock, (solid) because Peter was solid in the Truth.

Jesus said he will build his church on solid truth. He didn’t say it would Catholic, Judaism, Islamic or any other church. All he said was that he will build his church on solid truth.

Shai22

Interesting. Can you show where the verses say that the rock was “solid truth?”

 

[Shai22]

A Rock is a symbol for what it is. It is a solid mass,not filled with anything else.

Peter was solid Truth meaning all truth nothing else.

When reading scripture one must keep in mind that Jesus spoke in parable using symbols most of the time. There are many words in the bible that have a double meaning.

Let GOD be your teacher and HE will provide you the wisdom of the book of Truth.

 

[Snow]

A Rock is a symbol for what it is. It is a solid mass,not filled with anything else.

Peter was solid Truth meaning all truth nothing else.

When reading scripture one must keep in mind that Jesus spoke in parable using symbols most of the time. There are many words in the bible that have a double meaning.

Let GOD be your teacher and HE will provide you the wisdom of the book of Truth.

I repeat: Can you show where the verses say that the rock was “solid truth?”

I get that because rocks are solid, you think that Christ was also referring to something solid. Where do you get the truth part from?

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Salvation is the pillar and foundation for TRUTH. certainly not a church which is what it is, just a building. The building doesn’t provide anything to anyone, it is the people that fill the building up that makes it what it is which is a building where mind like people gather together to praise GOD in HIS Glory. To be thankful that HE is gracious, merciful, kind, devoted, loving to HIS people.

Shai22

What would happen if the churches were shut down, would your faith be enough to sustain you?

We Catholics claim Christ DID establish a VISIBLE and DISCOVERABLE church. You Protestants do not deny that Christ established a church of some kind. But you must deny that the Catholic church is the true church prior to the Reformation, or there could be no excuse for setting up the Protestant churches. Yet, since these Protestant churches DID NOT EXIST prior to the Reformation, where was the true church then? There is but one way out. It was there INVISIBLE! And it is here today–invisible.
Of course the invisible theory is useless, unreasonable, and against the teachings of Christ. That any Protestant church is the visible church of Christ, the authorized guide of all nations, directly established, commissioned, and guaranteed by Him, will not bear examination. The Catholic church alone fulfills requirements. Christ certainly intended men of good will should be able to find and become members of the true church of this world. His church was to be a VISIBLE organization.
When I say a VISIBLE I intend the word in a very special sense. As I can find the visible brick building representing a Presbyterian, Episcopalian, or Lutheran church in the same sense I can certainly discover the visible building used by the community. But that is not the sense I intend when speaking of the visibility of the true church. I mean that the true church must be obviously existent in this world, and that it must always have obvious signs distinguishing it as the true church from all other claimants.********

 

[Shai22]

If the Catholic Church is not Christ’s Church, which denomination is it? Which faith is it? Which group of individuals all practicing faith individually is it? Where is it?

Why does Faith have to be a denomination. In Matthew 12:48-50
Jesus says that anyone who does as my Father says is my mother, and brother, he certainly didn’t say they were catholics. This scripture alone says that anyone who is in complete obedience to the Father, Jesus claims to be his family.

God told Jeremiah in 31:33-34 The new covenant that I will make with the people of Israel will be this. I will put my law within them and write it on their hearts. I will be their GOD, and they will be my people. 34 None of them will have to teach a neighbor to know the LORD because all will know me, form the least to the greatest. I will forgive their sins and I will no longer remember their wrongs. I, the LORD have spoken.

Jesus sealed this covenant with his blood. 1 Corinthians 11:25 This cup is GOD’S new covenant sealed with my blood. Whenever you drink it do so in memory of me.

As we know blood also means life, and drink it, means spiritual food, also known as TRUTH aka Scriptures.

2 Corinthians 3:3 IT is clear that Christ himself wrote this letter and sent it to us. It is written not with ink, but with the Spirit of the Living GOD and not on stone tablets but on human hearts.

GOD placed the responsibility in the individuals, removing it from their priests, pastors, rabbi’s. Faith is not in the church or the vatican, or they synagogue or temple, it is within you.

What you do if your church were closed, is your faith strong enough to sustain you?

shai22

 

[Shai22]

Truth is Solid

Hebrew 5:12-14 12 There has been enough time for you to be teachers yet you still need someone to teach you the first lessons of GOD’S message. Instead of eating solid food, you still have to drink milk. 13 Anyone who has to drink milk is still a child without any experience in the matter of right and wrong. 14 Solid food, on the other hand is for adults who through practice are able to distinguish between good and evil.

1Peter 5:9 Be firm in your faith and resist him because you know that other believers in all the world are going through the same kind of sufferings.

.

 

[Shai22]

. You Protestants do not deny that Christ established a church of some kind.

What makes you believe that I am a Protestant? You assumed this which is not a good thing to do. Your words are angry words and there is no reason to be angry. You must think I hate catholics, which I don’t.

I dont believe that Christ established a church. He reaffirmed GOD’S teachings in the Old Testament, extending the invitation to become ONE PEOPLE under the LIVING GOD which is in harmony with GOD’S last covenant which Jesus sealed with blood, [life] not for one people, but for all people.

 

[Cadellin]

Is there unity in truth? If there is and if Christ founded his church on truth then there would be only one Christian denomination. As it is, there are many denominations, each proclaiming the truth. This would not be a problem if it were not for the fact that the truths each denomination proclaims contradicts the truths others proclaim. So which one is true?

Shai22 is right is saying that Christ established his church on truth (I don’t think anyone’s arguing with that. How could they?). When Christ said to Peter, ‘upon this rock I will build my church’ he was appointing Peter (and those who succeeded him, i.e. the popes) as custodian of that truth. The teachings of Christ would be interpreted in many ways, some in ways that would lead the faithful astray. The question then arises: which interpretation is the correct one? The role of the ‘rock,’ appointed by Christ, was to arbitrate in the matter and descern the true interpretation.

Those who believe that it is up to the individual to decide for themselves what Christ tells us in his teachings are bringing disunity to the church Christ founded.

What you do if your church were closed, is your faith strong enough to sustain you?

It might be strong enough, but would it remain a true faith? Jesus said that where two or more were gathered in his name he would be in their midst. The Church is such a gathering and it is so important to the sustenance of our faith that he promised us that the gates of Hell would not prevail against it, so I’m not worrying about the Church closing and consequently of my faith becoming myth.

 

[Shai22]

The question then arises: which interpretation is the correct one?

There is only one interpretation which is GOD’S with many levels of understanding, which is what you witness through the priests, rabbi’s scholars, pastors etc. Some even put in their own interpretation to show they are smart.

However, GOD says in Isaiah 54:13 I myself will teach your people and give them prosperity and peace Justice and right will make you strong. You will be safe from oppression and terror.

Again in Psalms 32:8 The LORD says, I will teach you the way you should go, I will instruct you and advise you.

Jesus speaking in John 6:45
John 6:45 The prophets wrote, Everyone will be taught by GOD, Anyone who hears the Father and learns comes to me.

The scripture in Jeremiah isn’t saying that we stand independant, what it says is that GOD had placed all they need within their heart, so when HE calls them if they listen they are taught and guided by HIM through their redemption. It’s called “process of surrendering”…We surrender our ‘human nature’ [as described in Genesis 3] and take on the life of the Spirit.

 

[joshua_b]

If Peter was not intended to be the foundation of Christ’s church (btw, the argument that Jesus, not Peter is the foundation of the Church is nonsense as far as I’m concerned; OF COURSE the Church is founded on Jesus, but Jesus was free to implement his grand design and delegate His authority however he saw fit. It is not unscriptural for God to accomplish extraordinary things directly through a designated individual), then that leaves a few quandaries. Jesus asked Peter 3 times “do you love me?”, and tells Peter “Feed my sheep”…why Peter? Why not all of the Apostles? I have a hard time believing that this is not signifigant. Why would Jesus pray specifically that PETER’S faith remain strong? Why not all of the Apostles? Why is it, whenever Jesus singles out one Apostle as His focus, it seems to always be Peter? If the keys were simply a comission to go out and preach, why would he be given the power to bind and loose? Yes, this was handed to the other Apostles also, but the other Apostles were not handed the keys. To deny the signifigance of this is simply a rationalization to avoid seeing what is uncomfortable. The keys were signifigant of real executorship, and the power to bind and loose was not anything ambiguous or open to novel interpretation or that required a dilligent searching through all of scripture to figure out what was REALLY meant. To say that the Church can’t be founded on Peter because it must be founded on Jesus, and Peter can not hold the keys because Jesus holds the keys is setting up a false dichotomy; the specific assignment to Peter does not in any way negate the primacy of Christ, and underestimates the power and wisdom of God by attempting to put Him in a box of our own construction.

 

[O.S.Luke]

Protestants here will say it is unnecessary to be subject to any visible organization.

Once again, OTCA, you make a generalization and assumption which is totally baseless… not to mention incorrect.

You are a noisy gong and clanging cymbal, my friend. And, I am beginning to be convinced, that you are a religious bigot, too.

 

[Shai22]

Why would Jesus pray specifically that PETER’S faith remain strong? Why not all of the Apostles?

The Apostles are an example of the many kinds of relationships that they had with Christ. Although they all remained faithful, and loyal, not all were close to Christ as Peter was. A teacher always praises the student who shows he/she learned and understood what the lessons were. Just like in your church. Not all people who attend your church has the same relationship with Christ as others may, but if they remain faithful to the end they get the same gift, which is eternal life.

All of the disciples were blessed by the Holy Spirit, and given authority to speak in tongues [many languages], cast out demons, to baptize etc.

You answered your own question these are your words

“Why would Jesus pray specifically that PETER’S faith remain strong?”

Because Christ died and left Peter as an elder for the others to come to when they needed to.

 

[joshua_b]

All of the disciples were blessed by the Holy Spirit, and given authority to speak in tongues [many languages], cast out demons, to baptize etc.

You answered your own question these are your words

“Why would Jesus pray specifically that PETER’S faith remain strong?”

Because Christ died and left Peter as an elder for the others to come to when they needed to.

With one correction (all of the APOSTLES, not “disciples” were given authority and blessed by the Holy Spirit at Pentecost), you have just summed up the Catholic Church’s scriptural and historical understanding of Peter’s role in the Church that Christ founded.

Peter was left as an elder to the other Apostles, who traveled to different regions and established Churches in those regions, becoming the bishops over the Churches they founded. Those bishops had the authority to “bind and loose” within their own Churches, and remained in communion with one another by virtue of submitting to the special role and authority over them given to Peter. Under such a structure, they were a unified entity that comprised the universal (Catholic) church.

 

[pismopal]

** The proof lies in the fact that the Catholic church alone corresponds exactly to the exact religion established by Christ. Now, the Christian religion is that religion which–
a.) Was founded by Christ personally
b.) Has existed continuously since the time of Christ;
c.) Is Catholic or Universal, in accordance with Christ’s command to go to all the the world and teach all nations;
d.) Demands that all her members admit the same doctrine;
e.) Exercises Divine authority over her subjects, since Christ said that if a man would not hear the Church he would be as the heathen.

Now the Catholic church alone can claim–
a.) To have been founded by Christ personally. All other churches disappear as you go back through history. Christ said “Thou art Peter, and upon this Rock I will build my church.” Matt 16:18
There are many claimants to the honor of being Christ’s Church. But among all non-Catholic Churches, we find one built by John Wesley, another on a Martin Luther, another on a Mrs. Eddy, etc…
But the Catholic church alone can possibly claim to have been built on Peter, the chief of the Apostles, and one-time Bishop of Rome.
b.) To have existed in all the centuries since Christ
c.) That every one of her members admits exactly the same essential doctrines
d.) To be Catholic or Universal
e.) To speak with a voice of true authority in the name of God.

**

I quote the above again because it is well worth repeating and saving…thanks.
The contras are jumping in with the usual disagreements and using the position that Catholics have misinterpreted the Bible. I thought Sola Scriptura meant that all a person had to do was pick up a Bible and the correct meaning just jumped off the pages, all translated perfectly, in context…for anyone…well that is why I have a Church with a Majesterium…and teaching authority because those meanings don’t just jump off the pages all interpreted, in context for everyone. The Catholic position was and is that Tradition is also important in order to come up with correct dogma and we have it. The misinterpretation claim tends to disprove the case for non Catholics.

 

[Cadellin]

The question then arises: which interpretation is the correct one?

There is only one interpretation which is GOD’S with many levels of understanding, which is what you witness through the priests, rabbi’s scholars, pastors etc. Some even put in their own interpretation to show they are smart.

However, GOD says in Isaiah 54:13 I myself will teach your people and give them prosperity and peace Justice and right will make you strong. You will be safe from oppression and terror.

Again in Psalms 32:8 The LORD says, I will teach you the way you should go, I will instruct you and advise you.

Jesus speaking in John 6:45
John 6:45 The prophets wrote, Everyone will be taught by GOD, Anyone who hears the Father and learns comes to me.

The scripture in Jeremiah isn’t saying that we stand independant, what it says is that GOD had placed all they need within their heart, so when HE calls them if they listen they are taught and guided by HIM through their redemption. It’s called “process of surrendering”…We surrender our ‘human nature’ [as described in Genesis 3] and take on the life of the Spirit.

Which interpretation is God’s interpretation, though? In the last paragraph in particular, you emphasised ‘God,’ ‘he’ and ‘him.’ What if you’d emphasised ‘they’ and ‘their’ instead? You would have put the emphasis on God’s people collectively, i.e. on God guiding his people through the Church. This simply illustrates my point about interpretation.

 

[Shai22]

They were all given the same authority, not one any different than the other. Peter was given the privilege of being an elder guiding the others as Christ did. This is not the church. The church implented this example, or try to which should be based on “solid truth”, as Peter was.

 

[joshua_b]

They were all given the same authority, not one any different than the other. Peter was given the privilege of being an elder guiding the others as Christ did. This is not the church. The church implented this example, or try to which should be based on “solid truth”, as Peter was.

Technically, you are correct, and the Catholic Church agrees with you, and is still structured as such to this day. The Catholic bishops of today are sovereign over their diocese, and are free to make decisions as they see fit for their respective congregations. The Catholic bishops of today are not simply automotons of the Pope. The Pope is, technically speaking, nothing more than the bishop of Rome. To illustrate more clearly the autonomous nature of the Catholic bishops, I challenge you to consider the disciplines and practices of the Eastern Catholic rites of the Church. There are many Catholic Churches (Chaldean, Coptic, Armenian, etc…) that are not “Roman” or Latin Rite Catholic Churches. If you investigate the modern practices of these Churches, you will find them remarkedly different from the “Roman Catholic” Church that so many people seem to love to hate. However, they are still in full communion with the Pope, and are considered fully Catholic in every sense of the word by the Latin (“Roman”) Catholic bishops and congregation.

 

[Shai22]

Thank you Joshua, I appreciate your response.

I don’t study churches or religion. I learn from GOD and what the scripture means in His eyes. The problem with religion and churches is that there are to many divisions within them, which causes confusion with the people, then they debate and argue over things that shouldn’t be debated or argued.

There is a scripture that says, As for me and my family I will obey all of GOD’S laws and commands. It’s in the old testament, I’m sorry that I can’t find it for you.

Give the GLORY back to GOD always.

 

[OneTrueCathApos]

Words of St. Cyprian who died in 258 A.D. said:
“Whoever is separated from the church, is seperated from the promises of Christ. Nor will he who leaves the church of Christ obtain the salvation of Christ. He becomes a foreigner and an enemy. One cannot have God as a Father who has not the church his mother.”
Protestants are like people in a forest, who follow any line of tracks without bothering to ask where it leads. And they so love the risky adventure of experimenting for themselves that they search Scripture for every possible text which they think will support them.