Positive Proof The Catholic Church Is The Only True Church

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** The proof lies in the fact that the Catholic church alone corresponds exactly to the exact religion established by Christ. Now, the Christian religion is that religion which–
a.) Was founded by Christ personally
b.) Has existed continuously since the time of Christ;
c.) Is Catholic or Universal, in accordance with Christ’s command to go to all the the world and teach all nations;
d.) Demands that all her members admit the same doctrine;
e.) Exercises Divine authority over her subjects, since Christ said that if a man would not hear the Church he would be as the heathen.
**
Here’s why this argument won’t work: it proposes a content-free definition of the true Church.

To most of us, it really matters what the Church says and does, not just that it can provide a set of self-selected criteria of historical authenticity. The traditional Protestant way of putting this is that a succession of faith is more important than a mere succession of hands on heads and bottoms on seats.

Responses to this argument based on radical skepticism (how do you know what true doctrine is, etc.) are valid as arguments against Christianity but do nothing to promote any form of orthodox Christianity, and certainly not Catholicism. Catholicism can provide good arguments for having preserved a succession of faith and practice. But one would not know this from your post.

Edwin
 
Gabriel 12. I pray that Gabriel is your real name, and that you have not taken on a name of the Great Angel Gabriel. To do so goes against GOD’S command.

So it is a sin to give your child a biblical Christian name? Can you explain why taken a biblical name goes against which of God’s command? I am very interested in hearing your view on this.

To Answer your question about denying the Saint. I’m not at liberty to fully explain but I can tell you that you will fully understand why I said that in the future.

**Ok, you totally lost me; My comment had nothing to do with the biblical doctrine of the Communion of Saints.

What my question pertained to; You call your reading and biblical interpretation “truth”, Saint Cyprian commented from his biblical reading of scripture and gave a teaching, from his biblical understanding of scripture, yet you call his interpretation false, but your interpretation “truth”. How do you arrive at this? without no authoritative authority to support your claim.

In other words why do you a 21st century Christian? and Saint Cyprian an early church Father succeded from the original Apostles, biblical interpretation disqualifies the Saints biblical interpretation? **
 
To Michael

This is the Apostles Creed, which i’m sure you believe in.

I believe in God, the Father Almighty,
the Creator of heaven and earth,
and in Jesus Christ, His only Son, our Lord:
Who was conceived of the Holy Spirit,
born of the Virgin Mary,
suffered under Pontius Pilate,
was crucified, died, and was buried.
He descended into hell.
The third day He arose again from the dead.
He ascended into heaven
and sits at the right hand of God the Father Almighty,
whence He shall come to judge the living and the dead.
I believe in the Holy Spirit, the holy catholic church,
the communion of saints,
the forgiveness of sins,
the resurrection of the body,
and life everlasting.
Amen.

I believe that the Catholic Church has answered your question about whether Jesus is GOD.
 
So it is a sin to give your child a biblical Christian name? Can you explain why taken a biblical name goes against which of God’s command? I am very interested in hearing your view on this.

You misinterpreted what I said. A lot of people take on names from the Angels as a nic name. This is why I said I pray it’s your real name and not a nic name.

Regarding the Saint question, you will have to wait on that answer, it will be proven soon enough.
 
** The proof lies in the fact that the Catholic church alone corresponds exactly to the exact religion established by Christ. Now, the Christian religion is that religion which–**
a.) Was founded by Christ personally
b.) Has existed continuously since the time of Christ;
c.) Is Catholic or Universal, in accordance with Christ’s command to go to all the the world and teach all nations;
d.) Demands that all her members admit the same doctrine;
e.) Exercises Divine authority over her subjects, since Christ said that if a man would not hear the Church he would be as the heathen.
**## That also fits Orthodoxy. At least, so an Orthodox Christian could say. ****It’s valid as a proof of Catholicism’s validity only on Rome’s presuppositions. **

**Claims are no proof of anything, if nothing supports them - you could claim to be Karl Rove: I hope that’s not proof you are. 🙂 I can’t think off-hand of a Christian body that would not claim to hold, in some way if not in the RC way, all five points listed. **

**“Hear[ing] the C/church”, in its context, may mean the local church - & Catholics are not alone in having them. And others than Rome claim to exercise Divine authority. **
Now the Catholic church alone can claim–
a.) To have been founded by Christ personally. All other churches disappear as you go back through history. Christ said “Thou art Peter, and upon this Rock I will build my church.” Matt 16:18

Not so fast 🙂 - your position takes for granted that the this particular RC understanding of the text is the only possible right one. There is more than one way to be a Church - as is clear enough from the history of RCism.​

It’s also possible that what we call Protestantism is a visible social form of tendencies latent in the Apostolic Church that became wrong only when they took a visible social form as a protest against the Catholic Church. So on this theory the Apostles were pre-Catholic, pre-Orthodox, pre-Protestant; & Catholicism included a lot of what after the big Reformation split would be called Protestant. Put another way, Protestantism contains a great deal that is in direct genetic continuity with what, some time after the Apostles, was to become known as Catholicism; & therefore is in DGC with the teaching of the Apostles too.

Whether any Church’s teaching is also genuinely Christian in character, is another matter: DGC can’t ensure this.
There are many claimants to the honor of being Christ’s Church. But among all non-Catholic Churches, we find one built by John Wesley, another on a Martin Luther, another on a Mrs. Eddy, etc…
But the Catholic church alone can possibly claim to have been built on Peter, the chief of the Apostles, and one-time Bishop of Rome.
b.) To have existed in all the centuries since Christ
c.) That every one of her members admits exactly the same essential doctrines
d.) To be Catholic or Universal
e.) To speak with a voice of true authority in the name of God.


**:highprayer: **

I think I’ve dealt with these points, by implication if not explicitly.​

There’s a deeper question - would a positive proof be a good thing ?
 
The true “catholic” church is all those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation.

So it is ANYONE, not only catholics. One can have faith without a structural church. Jeremiah 31:33
 
The true “catholic” church is all those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation.

So it is ANYONE, not only catholics. One can have faith without a structural church. Jeremiah 31:33
Not so fast. You should answer my oringinal questions before restating your statements.
To Michael

This is the Apostles Creed, which i’m sure you believe in.

Apostle’s Creed

I believe that the Catholic Church has answered your question about whether Jesus is GOD.
Are you attributing the authority of the Apostle’s Creed to the Catholic Church? If so, there would be no problem in me continuing to submit to such authority, the authority that teaches Jesus is God.
But besides all this, this creed does not contradict Jesus as God, in fact it is starting to look very trinitarian.

peace,
Michael
 
I can’t believe how much in denial you are in.

Jesus was just baptized and as he was raised out of the water, he saw heaven opening up and the Spirit coming down on him like a dove.
Mark 1:11 And a voice came from heaven “You are my own dear Son, I am pleased with you.”

You are not only an aggressive person, you are stubborn and blind afraid and doubt.

Just for your information Michael there are many layers to all injuries when GOD heals HE does so gradually, because it would be overwhelming to the human being. You still have a long way to go.

This is my last post.
 
Jesus was just baptized and as he was raised out of the water, he saw heaven opening up and the Spirit coming down on him like a dove.
Mark 1:11 And a voice came from heaven “You are my own dear Son, I am pleased with you.”
This I agree with. But it does not preclude the divinity of Christ, in fact it would seem to support it.
This is my last post.
Meh, it’s not like we hand any good dialogue going. You never answered my questions, so no dialogue could take place. I only hope that you took away a few questions to make you think about your faith.

peace,
Michael
 
If your church is true and mine isn’t then you must believe it is superior.
I know this isn’t addressed to me, but I’ll respond.

I’m a convert to Cathoicsm, and I think it is the Church Jesus founded.

Clearly, this means I think it is superior.

That being said, the Church doesn’t deny that much truth and grace is found in other Christian Churches, which we believe subsist within the Catholic Church.
 
The true “catholic” church is all those who have placed their faith in Jesus Christ for salvation.

So it is ANYONE, not only catholics. One can have faith without a structural church. Jeremiah 31:33
Actually, that is exactly what the Church teaches.

All Christians subsist within the Catholic Church, even if they are not in full communion.
 
I know this isn’t addressed to me, but I’ll respond.

I’m a convert to Cathoicsm, and I think it is the Church Jesus founded.

Clearly, this means I think it is superior.

That being said, the Church doesn’t deny that much truth and grace is found in other Christian Churches, which we believe subsist within the Catholic Church.
See, thats what gets me. I have fought people for saying they are superior to me in real life. That is what I do to solve conflict. It is fast, and usually not that painful.

If a man ever came to me and said his religion or whatever was superior, and had no real proof, then I would lay them out. Why? Cause, I believe in what they call stand-off theology. Basically, if a man dis-respects you, you and him fight it out until one or the other calls it quits and says he is sorry for being dis-respectful. Primitive, yes, but also effective.
 
See, thats what gets me. I have fought people for saying they are superior to me in real life. That is what I do to solve conflict. It is fast, and usually not that painful.

If a man ever came to me and said his religion or whatever was superior, and had no real proof, then I would lay them out. Why? Cause, I believe in what they call stand-off theology. Basically, if a man dis-respects you, you and him fight it out until one or the other calls it quits and says he is sorry for being dis-respectful. Primitive, yes, but also effective.
I understand your point.

However, you must agree that when two contradictory views exist, one is wrong and one is right.

If the Catholic Church is the Church founded by Jesus, then I’m sure you would agree that it would be superior to other churches.

This doesn’t mean you have to agree that the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus.

I was born again in a Baptist Church, raised in both a nondenominational Charismatic Church and a small town Methodist Church, and ended up Catholic.

I have a strong opinion about the Church because I love Jesus and I want the world to be united in Truth and Faith.
 
I understand your point.

However, you must agree that when two contradictory views exist, one is wrong and one is right.

If the Catholic Church is the Church founded by Jesus, then I’m sure you would agree that it would be superior to other churches.

This doesn’t mean you have to agree that the Catholic Church was founded by Jesus.

I was born again in a Baptist Church, raised in both a nondenominational Charismatic Church and a small town Methodist Church, and ended up Catholic.

I have a strong opinion about the Church because I love Jesus and I want the world to be united in Truth and Faith.
But it isn’t. I do not see how you get that it is, really. Peter and the disciples never said they would pass down his power that Christ gave him.

The world will never be united in truth and faith. Some people just want to see the world burn.
 
See, thats what gets me. I have fought people for saying they are superior to me in real life. That is what I do to solve conflict. It is fast, and usually not that painful.

If a man ever came to me and said his religion or whatever was superior, and had no real proof, then I would lay them out. Why? Cause, I believe in what they call stand-off theology. Basically, if a man dis-respects you, you and him fight it out until one or the other calls it quits and says he is sorry for being dis-respectful. Primitive, yes, but also effective.
You can say this seriously and not be ashamed of yourself?

It would be even more effective if you killed anyone you didn’t like. Do you want to defend that?

If you use violence to respond to an intellectual claim, you are a boor and a barbarian. And I hope I would have the courage to say the same thing even if you knew me in real life and could apply your favorite mode of argument to me.

Any serious argument about truth involves the claim to be “better” in some sense. That’s what an argument is about. If you don’t want to engage in arguments, then don’t talk to people who are different from you. Hitting them out of frustration with your own inability to defend your own beliefs is not the answer. It just discredits what you believe. (People may be afraid to tell you to your face how ridiculous your beliefs are, but that is clearly what they will think.)

Edwin
 
So it is a sin to give your child a biblical Christian name? Can you explain why taken a biblical name goes against which of God’s command? I am very interested in hearing your view on this.

You misinterpreted what I said. A lot of people take on names from the Angels as a nic name. This is why I said I pray it’s your real name and not a nic name.

Regarding the Saint question, you will have to wait on that answer, it will be proven soon enough.
Oh, ok, LoL, Gabriel is my Christian confirmation name given to me by my God parents. Would this suffice not going against your interpretation of going against God’s word? I couldn’t use the name my parents gave me because it was already taken here.

Take your time, no hurry. What is there to prove?
 
Yes, I would agree with you but… today very few people talk about this anymore because it is a non-issue.

Jesus spoke aramaic, there is no such distinction with the word rock. Simple as that.

Really, what’s wrong with Jesus building his Church on Peter’s confession and giving him the keys? Either way Jesus is giving him an authority that is unique.

I would ask anyone who is open to the possibility that the Catholic Church is Christ’s Church to visit during Eucharistic Adoration. Just visit, and pray to God to let you know if his body and blood is the Eucharist. Once that’s done and you’re still not convinced, go ahead and continue arguing on these forums. This is my hope anyways.

peace,
Michael
I dont think it’s a non-issue because we found strong basis in the bible that it is JESUS CHRIST himsef who is the ROCK upon which the TRUE CHURCH is built. So, the ROCK (PETRA) mentioned in Matthew 16:18 is no other than Jesus Christ, not Peter. Is this a non-issue? Please enlighten me.

Scrutinizing further the verses of the bible, on the preceding verses, on their conversation, the topic of the discussion is all about JESUS, about the MESSIAH. “…and and on this rock I will build my church, and the gates of Hades will not overcome it.”

Precisely, it is JESUS referred to as ROCK in this verse, NOT PETER.

Peace!
 
How come this thread is about positive proof and so far we’ve gotten none?
 
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