Practical ways that a wife should be submissive to her husband

[EasterJoy]

Here’s the happier sample disagreement that I promised.

My husband and I recently bought a large, very pink house in a good location that allows us to get by with just one car. (We’re talking 20-year-old dirty mauve carpet, pink Formica, a purple toilet and purple bidet, even pinkish white paint throughout the downstairs–basically a sort of well-worn Barbie’s Dream House.) I agreed, fully intending to renovate the daylights out of it at the earliest opportunity, as there were only one or two houses for sale in this small area every year.

Some time after we bought the house, I discovered that my husband believed that any cosmetic work on the house would only come after we finished saving for the kids’ college. At $100k per kid, that would mean that we would need to have $300k in college savings. Problem 1–we don’t have any college savings at all at this point. Problem 2–my husband envisioned me doing the cosmetic renovations (which I had mentioned before to him would probably run in the neighborhood of at least $40k) in the meantime out of my “fun money.” My fun money has lately been about $30 a month. So, I’d need around 1300 months (that’s 25 years, people) to manage that, by which time it would probably be about time to start all over again with the project. So, let’s say I wasn’t happy with that idea, and I would never have agreed to buy this house on those terms.

I explained to my husband that this was a big enough deal to me that I would prefer to sell our big pink house and find a smaller non-pink one in a less nice area, if we were going to have to do nothing but save for college for the next 20 years (we have a 19-month-old). My husband, who hates moving and is hoping never to move again, didn’t like that idea AT ALL.

I pointed out that technically speaking, we don’t need $100,000 per kid, as that’s what we’d need for Big State U but Hometown College would run us about $20,000 total per child if they lived at home (that’s total–not per year).

My husband pointed out to me that it seems more than a little unfair to our kids to force them to go to Hometown College, just so I can have a nice kitchen. I had to agree, while thinking that it would be a very good thing if at least one of the kids went to Hometown College. He asked me if I’d be willing to get a job just to do the renovation, and I said I would. My husband had not realized that this was that important to me. Now, mind you, I’ve been poring over and annotating home design books and magazines for the past 10 years, but it had somehow escaped him that I want a pretty house.

We finally did the math. If all three kids go to Big State U., our total tuition costs (private school and college) will range from $3k a month (2 kids in school, one kid in college) to a doomsday scenario of $4.5k a month (1 kid in school, 2 kids in college) for one year, to $2.5k a month (1 kid in school, 1 kid in college) to a final tuition burden of something like $2k per month (although who knows what costs will be in 20 years). But by then, our house is paid off, so college will be less burdensome. This was all very rough calculation (and ideally some kids would live at home and/or work), but it was helpful. We realized that our main goal should be to prepare for the one year where we may need $4.5k a month in tuition. There was some more math, and we decided that if we were able to save $10k a year for the next six years, then any money in excess of that would be available for home projects.

And there was much rejoicing!

This was a big, tough talk, but it was very productive, and we were both happy with the outcome. It remains to be seen if we will manage to save anything for college (as I mentioned, we haven’t saved a dime yet), but there’s all the difference in the world between being told, “First we save $300k for college, then you get to repaint the peeling pink paint everywhere and replace the dirty pink carpet,” versus “We’ll try to save $10k a year for college and if there is any extra, it can be used for the house.”

Moving into a hand-me-down Barbie Dream House only to be told that a) you can’t improve it and b) you can’t move is a bait-and-switch! Yes, I can see why you’d want to move into something far more modest and yet less jarring to the eye. I mean, I’d live in a purple house if my husband loved it, but hating it and knowing he hated it, too–yes, definitely something we would talk about.

Talking and listening–these aren’t too much for Christian spouses to ask of each other. Within limits, but you’re talking about a constant irritation. Be willing to suffer for your spouse when necessary, but don’t go looking to make yourself into a martyr!

 

[Sereta]

I admire people like Queen Elizabeth and Hilary Clinton. I admire my mother in law and my paternal grandmother.

These women put the institution of marriage above their own needs, for the sake of their families. Husbands of women like these are perhaps incapable of appreciating a wifes loyalty, but they are the good women who ‘take one for the team’ so to speak. They embody the role of a good wife even when the rewards elude them.

I model my own decisions on these women.

I like the Queen but I don’t admire Hilary Clinton.
While I understand putting the family first,at the same time,some men,possibly including Bill,only learn not to keep having affairs if they suffer a consequence.
If a husband is unfaithful,and the wife stays with him,sometimes “she teaches him how to treat her”
Ie:he will keep cheating because he gets the message that she’s willing to tolerate it.
To some people it doesn’t appear that that type of woman is a faithful,virtuous wife,but rather that “deluded” and foolish.

 

[bitterhope]

LongingSoul,

So, how would you feel about living in a house where everything was pink for the next 20 years? Pink everything. Or if you like pink, imagine some other color that you HATE with the intensity of a million suns and imagine that your spouse says that you get to live with it for the next 20 years.

It’s not a first world thing to have aesthetic preferences–places like India and Mexico are famous for their decorative arts. As a matter of fact, the decorative arts are often more prominent in poorer countries.

yellow8yellowM said:

“I believe one of my duties as a husband is to die for my wife. Even though I do not live up to it on a daily basis, this does not mean I disagree with scripture. I just do not live up to it.
But it seems that there is a large contingent of posters here who dismiss outright the directives given in Ephesians 5. I am curious to know on what basis you think that this should be dismissed?”

We haven’t been dismissing it, but we have been pointing out that it’s better to focus on other people’s rights and our responsibilities, rather than standing too much on our rights.

If I were to make a big fuss about my husband’s duty to lay down his life for me every day, I would be being a bad person.

Never been to India so I can’t speak for there, but in Mexico the only place you will find a house that is painted at all is in the city, and only those that live in the middle-to-upper class range will be painted even there. My husband grew up in rural Mexico and all the houses in his region are adobe. He didn’t even know that it was possible to have a house of any other material until he was 10. The majority of houses, if they are painted at all, they are simply painted white, but in the nicer neighborhoods you will find many brightly painted homes. It simply does not occur to most Mexican wives to paint her house any color at all, or even to decorate in any other way. In the cities it happens more often that you find a family that may have some money that they spend on decorating, but very, very few even in cities. Certainly not in the proportions you see in the US. The majority of families don’t even have working toilets even if they are lucky enough to have running water. It really is a first world problem being described. Not saying it is wrong, just saying that most people in the world would not care what color their house was painted as long as they had a roof to keep most of the rain out. We really are quite materialistic.

As for submitting to my husband, I happily do so. He is the head of our family, I am the heart. Often times as the heart of the home, I sway him towards the path I think we should take. But as the head, he always has the final say. I know he would never lead me in the wrong direction. He lays his life down for me each and everyday. If I feel strongly about something he trusts my instincts, but if he over rules me I trust him. The head is easily influenced by the heart though. It hasn’t happened often, but if I tell him I really want something to happen, he has done everything within his power to make it happen, regardless of how silly it may be. Maybe it’s because I don’t ask for much that he tries so hard to provide? If I say no I don’t agree with something that he thinks is a good idea, well then he has never in my memory over ruled me. Once again it doesn’t happen often so I guess he respects it when I do say no. It goes both ways for us. I guess we function a lot like Easter Joy was saying, if one if the spouses says no then they both say no, or at least it is no until they both agree. He lays down his life, and I submit to his will for our family. Since his life and all his desires are given up for my life and my desires, it is really quite easy to submit to him. When I read Eph 5 it always strikes me at how easy we wives have it. We have a few little lines telling us to follow our husband’s lead. The husbands on the other hand have multiple lines instructing them on how to care for us. I’ll take the submission any day.

 

[LongingSoul]

LongingSoul,

So, how would you feel about living in a house where everything was pink for the next 20 years? Pink everything. Or if you like pink, imagine some other color that you HATE with the intensity of a million suns and imagine that your spouse says that you get to live with it for the next 20 years.

It’s not a first world thing to have aesthetic preferences–places like India and Mexico are famous for their decorative arts. As a matter of fact, the decorative arts are often more prominent in poorer countries.

Perhaps its a generational thing but it just sounded so funny. I grew up in a home that had an septic loo about 5 feet outside the back door. We moved to a bigger town whenI was 10 and to this day I appreciate an inside plumbed loo. I can’t imagine saying to my husband “how can I possibly wash my arse in a purple bidet, daaaaarlink!!! Purple… what is this world coming to!!!”

I’ve never even been in a house that has a bidet. That’s posh by my standards. Younger people have such different expectations and standards in raising their families.

 

[bitterhope]

Perhaps its a generational thing but it just sounded so funny. I grew up in a home that had an septic loo about 5 feet outside the back door. We moved to a bigger town whenI was 10 and to this day I appreciate an inside plumbed loo. I can’t imagine saying to my husband “how can I possibly wash my arse in a purple bidet, daaaaarlink!!! Purple… what is this world coming to!!!”

I’ve never even been in a house that has a bidet. That’s posh by my standards. Younger people have such different expectations and standards in raising their families.

No, it’s not generational. I’m 34 and never seen a bidet except in tv. I couldn’t imagine trying to save up $300,000 to send my kids to college, and I have no idea how $40,000 could be solely for renovations when many people I know own houses that cost just slightly more than that. But what blows my mind completely is when people have no clue why this seems so far fetched to most in the world and they think somehow people in impoverished countries can even relate. Being born in the US I can honestly say I know very few people that can relate to that type of problem, and most people would love to be that hard pressed.

I’m glad that you can give 10% to charity. Charitable contributions are wonderful. Many people choose not to contribute to charity at all. An awful lot of people give a smaller amount to charity or are unable to contribute any because they don’t have any money to give. Does it make people who are better off more Christian and less materialistic because they give a higher percentage? And how does it relate to submitting or not submitting? Was this all related to show that good things happen when a wife refuses to submit to her husband? I am sorry but I think I missed the point of the story

 

[Kelfa28]

I like the Queen but I don’t admire Hilary Clinton.
While I understand putting the family first,at the same time,some men,possibly including Bill,only learn not to keep having affairs if they suffer a consequence.
If a husband is unfaithful,and the wife stays with him,sometimes “she teaches him how to treat her”
Ie:he will keep cheating because he gets the message that she’s willing to tolerate it.
To some people it doesn’t appear that that type of woman is a faithful,virtuous wife,but rather that “deluded” and foolish.

Hilliary is probably one of the worst examples of a “submissive” wife to admire. Her husband cheated on her many times that we know of and who knows how many we don’t know of but she put up with that kind of abuse for decades.
No woman should ever submit to a husband’s philandering. Never. If it gets to that point and she willing to reconcile, she needs to tell her husband that cheating will not be tolerated, here are my rules and regulations for total transparency within this marriage, and if my rules are not followed then these are the consequences I have decided on. Follow them or we’re done.

If one considers Hillary’s values, world view and her education background it’s crystal clear she stayed in the marriage in order to realize her own political aspirations and dreams. She knew about the cheating early on but decided to stay because it’s far easier for a woman to ride the wake of her husband’s political success then go about it entirely on your own.

If she wasn’t such a big political presence in the governor’s mansion and the white house and was the cute and quaint first lady we all expected her to be and if she didn’t go on to actively campaign and win a senator’s seat and become a serious contender for the presidency herself then I’d have called her a doormat and not a “submissive” wife.

My husband has made more then one decision in our marriage that I’ve told him, under no circumstances is this going to fly.
I remember him allowing his dad to invite his toxic girlfriend to my daughter’s first birthday party despite my telling him in advance I didn’t want her at my house. When he told me his dad was bringing her, I said “fine, you can host the party entirely on your own and without the birthday girl because I’m not allowing her to be in a house with that women.”
That changed his tune quick. It was a bad decision and I had no issue telling him so.

 

[SecretCatholic]

I think it’s ugly to be thinking too much about how to get the maximum juice out of Ephesians 5 for one’s own benefit.

We’ve already talked about the unseemliness of a husband’s trying to figure out how much submission he can squeeze out of his wife.

It’s not that we are “thinking too much” about it. It’s that some people run away from this question! The question itself appears suspect and is handled with much hesitation and condemnation. I would find NOTHING WRONG with a thread on how men should properly treat women according to Ephesians 5.

When a woman starts thinking she has to think and behave a certain way because “she’s the wife” and the husband thinks he needs to be a certain way because “he’s the husband,” people stop being who they are and start acting a role.

I think one has to be very clear about one’s role in marriage or in any other role! No, we don’t usually have to remind ourselves continually- we do it naturally. But how many parents don’t treat their children as “friends” first, before being parental? And forgetting you are a “wife” or a “husband” would bring very bad consequences in love, wouldn’t it? We are who we are AS we act a role. We are ALWAYS in a role. If I meet a stranger, I do not treat him like my best friend and visa-versa. I do not treat my father as my peer or visa-versa, even if I have a friendly relationship with him.

What we don’t do is act unilaterally or use our genitals as a trump card. That’s very manipulative, imo.

So men and women are the same, except for their genitals? Is that what the Church or the Bible says?

Using the example of the two families I know closely who I think embody the beauty of healthy marriage and family here is how I see the wife submitting to the husband.

Thank you for that example. I think that is more along the lines of what is called for, not some kind of tyrannical attitude.

Things began to get rough when the children began to grow up and I was able to develop opinions and interests of my own (like attending daily Mass or Bible Study at my parish or maybe the very occasional lunch with co-workers or mom-friends or a musical concert…). He has always been welcome to attend any of these, but they are not things he is interested in.

He decided to put his foot down and said that I was supposed to be where he was (doing whatever he wanted to do) unless I was at work.

So let me get this straight- Your husband calls upon Church teaching to get his way, but then objects to you attending Church events?

But it seems that there is a large contingent of posters here who dismiss outright the directives given in Ephesians 5. I am curious to know on what basis you think that this should be dismissed?

It seems to me that both of these passages are dismissed because of contemporary cultural influences and in both cases, ego. We just don’t like to be told what to do (lay down your life for her, etc.) or who to submit to (your husband).

If I were to make a big fuss about my husband’s duty to lay down his life for me every day, I would be being a bad person.

Sure, but what’s wrong with a discussion thread? It’s as if this can’t me mentioned AT ALL. Just dismissed as macho stuff! Let’s forget that its in the Bible and Church teaching! In my view, ANY church teaching is fair game for discussion. Frankly, I wish people DID bring up how husbands should treat their wives, because I think we have many problems with that as well.

She does NOT have to “submit” to you regarding the Disneyland example.

Thanks for the insightful explanation!

As for submitting to my husband, I happily do so. He is the head of our family, I am the heart. Often times as the heart of the home, I sway him towards the path I think we should take. But as the head, he always has the final say. I know he would never lead me in the wrong direction. He lays his life down for me each and everyday. If I feel strongly about something he trusts my instincts, but if he over rules me I trust him. The head is easily influenced by the heart though.

Thank you for that beautiful response!

 

[Lorelei12]

I believe one of my duties as a husband is to die for my wife. Even though I do not live up to it on a daily basis, this does not mean I disagree with scripture. I just do not live up to it.

But it seems that there is a large contingent of posters here who dismiss outright the directives given in Ephesians 5. I am curious to know on what basis you think that this should be dismissed?

I do not dismiss them, but my marriage is good enough that neither one of us really ever has to consciously think about it. Maybe someday there will be an issue that gets us there, but as of yet my husband doesn’t think “how should she submit to me”, as far as I know. We make decisions together, regardless of whose idea it was and who “wins” or “loses”.

As for examples…well, I was unemployed a couple of years ago, our lease was up, and we needed to move. I found a place that we both loved, but that was just a bit out of our budget. I worked out all kinds of ways we could make it work, but he was really against it. So, we moved to someplace smaller that neither one of us likes that much but we made it work. Now that we have a baby on the way and I have been working, we’re moving again. This time, we’re moving to a place I really liked when my husband would have been content staying right where we are, because he hates moving and he hates spending more money. I don’t think of it in terms of “who submits to who”, it’s more that we both try to be responsible, and if something is more important to one of us than the other while still being reasonable, that person usually “wins”.

You can’t make your spouse do anything. If she submits to you, she does so out of love.I do not “dismiss” Ephesians 5, but I don’t think it’s a “card” meant to be played. It’s meant to make both spouses think about their marriage and ask themselves what they are doing right or wrong, not to try and point out the things their spouse is doing “wrong”.

 

[Xantippe]

EasterJoy said:

“For me, it was purple…for my husband, I’d live in a purple house, yes. An icky lavender, even. Maybe even with those icky-pink sinks, that kind of dirty pink that was popular for awhile in about 1972, and with rust stains. In a town with hard water that smelled like sulfur, so the white laundry wouldn’t ever really get white. And no decent restaurants. (OK, I’d be feeling very much the martyr by then, but I’d at least try!”

But let’s imagine that he’s imposing this on you out of sheer bloody-mindedness, rather than in order to pay for cancer treatments for orphans or in order to work at a company that’s going to produce cold fusion or some other such worthy enterprise.

I’ve actually had a conversation with my husband where I had to logically demonstrate that it is necessary to paint drywall (rather than just leave it with the paper raw), so I have to defend pretty much EVERYTHING from the ground up. He’s a great guy and all that in other respects, but his judgment on decor can be eccentric.

 

[LongingSoul]

I do not dismiss them, but my marriage is good enough that neither one of us really ever has to consciously think about it. Maybe someday there will be an issue that gets us there, but as of yet my husband doesn’t think “how should she submit to me”, as far as I know. We make decisions together, regardless of whose idea it was and who “wins” or “loses”.

I do think that’s where the strength of the Ephesians marriage dynamic shows itself. When there is either major or persistant conflicts. Sometimes that will show up early in a marriage if you are both strong willed firey characters. Other times it comes later as circumstances alter. Other times midlife disturbance brings a weak marriage dynamic, crumbling in its tracks.

I don’t think it shows up so much as ‘how should she submit to me’ but more as a strong urge to take the reigns and lead. We have to accept that that is natural and healthy and even if it comes out sounding brutish or domineering, the fundamental urge to take the reigns and lead the family… is worth acknowledging. A wife who crushes that urge altogether is setting up a weak marriage to carry herself and her children through the rough terrain of family life.

I know it can work even if it sometimes really looks like the Taming of the Shrew.

I think our younger women need to give the Ephesians way more of a chance because when the glue of attraction that holds them together as younger people, disappears… the primal attraction of the King and his Queen archetypes keeps working away behind the scenes to keep that love properly alive.

 

[Xantippe]

LongingSoul said:

“Perhaps its a generational thing but it just sounded so funny. I grew up in a home that had an septic loo about 5 feet outside the back door. We moved to a bigger town whenI was 10 and to this day I appreciate an inside plumbed loo. I can’t imagine saying to my husband “how can I possibly wash my arse in a purple bidet, daaaaarlink!!! Purple… what is this world coming to!!!””

This is our very first house, we’d been married 15 years before we bought it, we saved like fiends for this, we’ve got what feels to us like a crushing mortgage (it’s a 20 year, not the usual 30), so hearing that cosmetic work would have to wait another 20 years gave me roughly the feeling Jacob got when he realized he’d gotten Leah, not Rachel after working 7 years for Rachel.

“I’ve never even been in a house that has a bidet. That’s posh by my standards. Younger people have such different expectations and standards in raising their families.”

It’s an early 90s house, built to 1980s tastes, so that was kind of a 80s affectation. You’ll almost never find an American home with a bidet, and this one had obviously not been used for years.

I have to report that there was a tragic flood about a month ago (caused by the weirdness of said purple toilet) and we were sadly forced to remove the purple bidet and toilet, replace them with a white toilet, and paint the tiny room white and put in some neutral vinyl flooring (there had been pink plush carpet all around the toilet and bidet–not practical!). The white and beige looks fabulous and it was relatively inexpensive.

Oh, and the other thing about the purple toilet was, as even my husband noted, it was so dark that you could never be quite confident that it was clean.

 

[OraLabora]

All I can say is that Catholics are not bound to a literalist interpretation of the Bible.

You have to take these verses in context of the times they were written in. The notion of a husband giving up his life for his wife was probably the equivalent of radical feminism 2000 years ago. I see it as a starting point for the liberalization of women’s lives from one of complete servitude. It broke women loose from the paradigm of that era.

What did God really intend from those verses? Well I like to think that He intended to give them dignity. How else can we interpret that husbands should love their wives like Christ loved them? Christ gave up His life for those He loved.

Certainly the notion of women’s dignity has evolved over time. They’re no longer mere chattel. There was a time when even women’s vote was considered a radical notion. God had to start that ball rolling in the context of St. Paul’s era.

 

[Xantippe]

bitterhope said:

“Was this all related to show that good things happen when a wife refuses to submit to her husband? I am sorry but I think I missed the point of the story”

If you stuck that long house post down to the end, you’ll find that I stated what I wanted, my husband stated what he wanted, we argued, we did math, and we discovered that it was in fact possible to split the difference. If we managed to save $10k a year for college, any savings in excess of that $10k will be available to me for home projects. Now, if I’d “submitted” and agreed to wait 20 years, I’d be resenting the heck out of it that my husband was putting me through this completely unnecessarily–refusing both renovation and downsizing to a smaller, more attractive house.

Saving $300k for college blows my mind, too, which is why I’m so happy we’ve agreed not to wait until we do that, as we haven’t saved $1 of that yet, and our biggest kid will be going in six years.

$40k to renovate a large house is unfortunately par for the course and doesn’t even get you that much. I have friends who bought a house for about $140k. After two contractors (one of whom was a violent felon who had to be let off with a golden handshake so he went away happy), they spent about $50k-$55k renovating an under 1700 square foot house. So, I’m just being realistic with my budget. I may even be somewhat too optimistic, as our house is 2900 square feet. The more square feet, the greater the cost of renovation. At a somewhat different socioeconomic level, I know a couple that has repeatedly spent six figures to renovate homes with values in the low millions. I do kind of want to point and laugh whenever they spend $200k on renovations and then sell five years later, but I’m sure the local tradesmen are happy with them.

 

[bitterhope]

Xantippe, what would happen if you and your husband got into an argument and no compromise can be found? Do you just continue to go around and around indefinitely? What happens when someone must make a decision? Who has the final say when action must be taken but there isn’t an agreement anywhere in sight? Life happens that way sometimes. Sometimes we must act immediately but someone will be disappointed. It’s not about winning and losing.

I did read the entire post, but the thing that jumped out to me is the whole situation could have easily been avoided if the discussion had taken place BEFORE buying the house. The time for compromises and budgeting should be before jumping in, not in the middle of the situation. What would have happened if a compromise could not be found? Would the marriage seriously have experienced irreparable damage because of paint, carpet, bathroom fixtures? And this seems normal and healthy to couples? In the situations you described, both the homeschooling couple and the situation with the house, neither husband nor wife were acting in accord with Eph 5. The husband’s role is much more detailed in scripture and involve him giving up everything–including his parents, his dreams, his desires, his life!–for his wife and her desires, dreams, goals, etc. All we as women must do is submit to their will. We get off easy figuring that we are basically just helping these men toward the final destination we jointly started towards, which is hopefully heaven. In the long run I am not convinced that these materialistic struggles will seem nearly as important in our final moments, but our obedience (or not) to God, His Church, and our familial roles will be front and center.

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

I think one has to be very clear about one’s role in marriage or in any other role! No, we don’t usually have to remind ourselves continually- we do it naturally. But how many parents don’t treat their children as “friends” first, before being parental? And forgetting you are a “wife” or a “husband” would bring very bad consequences in love, wouldn’t it? We are who we are AS we act a role. We are ALWAYS in a role. If I meet a stranger, I do not treat him like my best friend and visa-versa. I do not treat my father as my peer or visa-versa, even if I have a friendly relationship with him.

So men and women are the same, except for their genitals? Is that what the Church or the Bible says?

Yes, I have various roles in life. But that doesn’t mean that I have to act like what others, outsiders to my marriage, think I should act like in my marriage simply because I’m “the wife”.

My fidelity is to my husband. My priority is to meet my husband’s needs. If if I allow others to change how I behave around him and how I treat him to meet their definitions of “submissive” or “respectful” or whatever, I think that is very disrespectful to my husband and to our marriage. Authentically serving my husband is one of ways, one of the biggest ways, I honor God. I take that seriously and am really leery when outsiders try to get involved and attempt to influence how I think about my marriage and treat my husband. I’m doubly leery when they use their interpretations of the Bible or church documents to make their point.

As far are gender and sex roles… Well, let’s just say that I think these are largely social constructs that are being re-defined constantly.

 

[VeritasLuxMea]

In the situations you described, both the homeschooling couple and the situation with the house, neither husband nor wife were acting in accord with Eph 5. The husband’s role is much more detailed in scripture and involve him giving up everything–including his parents, his dreams, his desires, his life!–for his wife and her desires, dreams, goals, etc. All we as women must do is submit to their will. We get off easy figuring that we are basically just helping these men toward the final destination we jointly started towards, which is hopefully heaven. In the long run I am not convinced that these materialistic struggles will seem nearly as important in our final moments, but our obedience (or not) to God, His Church, and our familial roles will be front and center.

First, how do you differentiate between the passage in question and Eph 5:21 which reads:

21 Submit to one another out of reverence for Christ.

Second, you talk about a man leaving his parents as part of his role as husband, etc. From Eph 5:31:

31 “For this reason a man will leave his father and mother and be united to his wife, and the two will become one flesh.”

Does a woman not leave her father and mother to be united with her husband as a wife? How do you figure this is part of a husband’s role only?

Third, you talk about surrendering dreams and desires as a part of the role of husband. Is a wife not likewise called to surrender her dreams and desires for the good of her husband?

In short, given that we have the mutual submission passage (Eph 5:21) and given that the commands given to a husband are surely expected of a wife as well (i.e., sacrificial love), how then do you not see submission as a role of both husband and wife towards each other?

 

[Avocadomom]

I know you are sincere but… Lol… first world ‘Christian’ ideals are so materialistic!

How rude. It’s not materialistic to want a home that is in nice condition. The home is where many women do the vast majority of their life’s work. Although there are things more important that a nice home, it’s not materialistic to want to raise your family in a pleasing environment.

 

[ready]

We all know the passage from Ephesians 5 and elsewhere that a wife should be subject/submissive to her husband. But what does this mean in practical terms? Let’s please try to limit this discussion to practical examples. For example:

If my wife wants to go to Disneyworld for the 2nd time in the last month, and I say no due to financial difficulties, should she submit to my decision not to go?

If I try to institute a weekly family rosary, should she agree?

Obviously, the line is drawn when the husband asks the wife to violate God’s law or violates her dignity (part of God’s law), the wife should not submit, but there is a lot gray area in between.

Yes, and yes, in answer to your questions. Your wife must submit to you, unless you ask her to violate God’s law.

 

[Bookcat]

Dr. Brant Pitre has a nice overview called "Wives do what?

 

[bitterhope]

First, how do you differentiate between the passage in question and Eph 5:21 which reads:

Second, you talk about a man leaving his parents as part of his role as husband, etc. From Eph 5:31:

Does a woman not leave her father and mother to be united with her husband as a wife? How do you figure this is part of a husband’s role only?

Third, you talk about surrendering dreams and desires as a part of the role of husband. Is a wife not likewise called to surrender her dreams and desires for the good of her husband?

In short, given that we have the mutual submission passage (Eph 5:21) and given that the commands given to a husband are surely expected of a wife as well (i.e., sacrificial love), how then do you not see submission as a role of both husband and wife towards each other?

We as wives are the heart of the family. Our husbands are the head. The heart influences the head, but when it is all said and done, someone must call the shots, and that someone is the head. All we are asked to do us submit to our husbands. We are not told we must allow them to wipe their feet on us or use us as punching bags. St. Paul is very clear that husbands must live FOR their wives. Everything they do must be for the benefit of the family as a whole, and specifically for the wife. As wives we must acknowledge the leadership of our husbands support his decisions. We can work on getting him to change his mind to our own way of seeing things, and if he is doing as St. Paul instructs he will be receptive to this and work towards this himself. His role is to lay down his life for his wife’s life. But when the final decision is reached, the wife must accept this and support him.

Honestly, in 16 years of marriage my husband has used his role as husband to call the shots exactly twice. Both times I immediately submitted. There is no power struggle between us because we each know our mission in life. We agree on the mission. We have a common goal in mind and we know what needs to happen to get there. As his wife if I make a request (which happens a few times each year), he does everything in his power to comply with my requests. He realizes that a happy wife makes for a happy home. I realize that if I try hard to do the little things the way he likes he never gets demanding or demeaning, and he has no reason to “pull rank” on me. He would never dream of flat out denying me of a request without attempting to make it happen, and I would never ask something of him that I knew would be impossible for him to produce. Since I know he does everything I need him to do in order to care god our family, I know I can trust him enough to allow him the final word. All organizations have to have a chain of command. Someone needs to be decision maker when no compromise can be found and when feelings become hurt, especially when a decision must be made and time is up. During everyday life, each spouse lives for the other, but there comes a time when someone must be the submissive one. Scripture tells us that someone is the wife.