[Practicing, Poorly Catechized] Lesbian Denied Communion at Mother's Funeral

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Rich_Olszewski said:
Very possible.
What about following Canon Law? Is it his alone to interpret? And, how did he know if she was or was not in a state of grace from having made a valid confession? Was he the only confessor in that town? I cut him no slack there.
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Somehow I think there is* much** more to this story than we have heard!*
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
Very possible.
What about following Canon Law? Is it his alone to interpret? And, how did he know if she was or was not in a state of grace from having made a valid confession? Was he the only confessor in that town? I cut him no slack there.
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What exactly does Canon Law say in this regard!
Does this statement on politics not sound familiar to the statement of the women we are discussing…
“You brought your politics,** not your God into that Church yesterday…**
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He directs HRC’s "religion and faith program." He is also Anti-Catholic. For example he claimed the Pope is “hurting people in the name of Jesus” and when confronted on it refused to back down. He told the local press that HRC was outraged at the denial of communion because "Jesus didn’t play politics with* communion. He offered his body** and blood for everyone." Yes Mr. Knox and he calls us to conversion! This kind of assertion by the leader of a group dedicated to a Cultural Revolution and opposition to Catholic teaching points to a growing threat to the Catholic Church. *http://www.catholic.org/college/story.php?id=38597
 
NewEnglandPries said:
Canon law is helpful in this regard:

To deny someone communion is to publicly state that they are an obstinate and manifest grave sinner. To do so when such circumstances are in doubt is a violation of that individual’s canonical right to not have their reputation illegitimately harmed.
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“Here is my partner, who is the same sex as I am”

Where is the doubt? Someone who is gay, has a life partner, and who repents would probably not, in the context of Mass or parish life, introduce said person as “my partner” because they would know that would cast doubt as to their repentance.
 
PaulinVA said:
“Here is my partner, who is the same sex as I am”

Where is the doubt? Someone who is gay, has a life partner, and who repents would probably not, in the context of Mass or parish life, introduce said person as “my partner” because they would know that would cast doubt as to their repentance.
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Your “probably not” indicates that we can’t make presumptions.
 
Rich_Olszewski said:
Your “probably not” indicates that we can’t make presumptions.
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I’ve read further, and she introduced her partner to Father as “my lover” before Mass in the sacristy.

To me, that is a challenge to the priest.
 
PaulinVA said:
“Here is my partner, who is the same sex as I am”

Where is the doubt? Someone who is gay, has a life partner, and who repents would probably not, in the context of Mass or parish life, introduce said person as “my partner” because they would know that would cast doubt as to their repentance.
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Canon 915 requires more than merely being in an objective state of grave sin. It requires obstinate persistence in that state. Commentaries on the canon are clear, someone can’t be obstinate until the situation has been appropriately addressed with them.
 
Catherine_S said:
Got it, the Catholic Church can do nothing about anyone who enters the Church and receives the Blessed Sacrament!!
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That’s not true. Its just that there are steps for such things that should take place.
 
NewEnglandPriest said:
Canon 915 requires more than merely being in an objective state of grave sin. It requires obstinate persistence in that state. Commentaries on the canon are clear, someone can’t be obstinate until the situation has been appropriately addressed with them.
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NewEnglandPriest said:
That’s not true. Its just that there are steps for such things that should take place.
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Exactly. I haven’t read the whole thread, but I did read Fr. Z’s commentary. He contrasts the situation with someone like Rep. Pelosi whom a priest could withhold communion From due to he publicly known obstinance. In this situation, the priest was only just made aware of the woman’s situation. He was in no position to make the judgment he made.

Should she have presented herself for communion? Most probably not, but that is a different question.
 
OriginalJS said:
Whatever the theological or dogmatic reasons, denying communion to a woman at her own mother’s funeral in full view and hearing of others is harsh and not in keeping with Catholic practice of sensitivity in delicate matters. At every Catholic funeral I have been to, the Celebrant meets with immediate family before the Mass begins. Of course this kind of thing is deemed newsworthy. I don’t like to think such publicity is what the priest wanted.
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If the priest was applying Canon 915 correctly, there would be nothing wrong with denying her communion at her own mother’s funeral.
 
NewEnglandPriest said:
Canon 915 requires more than merely being in an objective state of grave sin. It requires obstinate persistence in that state. Commentaries on the canon are clear, someone can’t be obstinate until the situation has been appropriately addressed with them.
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I appreciate the opportunity to discuss this with you.

If someone came to you before Mass and basically admitted to an irregular marriage or were committing adultery and showed up with their lover or something analogous to the situation we are discussing, would you give them Holy Communion?

Doesn’t scandal ensue while you try to determine “obstinance”
 
PaulinVA said:
I’ve read further, and she introduced her partner to Father as “my lover” before Mass in the sacristy.

To me, that is a challenge to the priest.
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If that’s true, that would have been a good time for the priest to counsel her in the matter and determine whether she had been previously counseled. Then, he may have had enough evidence to apply Canon 915 to the situation and deny her communion. At least, that’s my understanding.

If he said nothing after being introduced and waited for communion to challenge her, he handled it totally wrong.
 
rlg94086 said:
If the priest was applying Canon 915 correctly, there would be nothing wron with denying her communion at her own mother’s funeral.
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I’ve read in some articles that Father spoke with Barbara before Mass, and told her then she was not to receive the Eucharist.

I’ve read in others that the lady was not told that she could not receive until she was in the reception line.

🤷 There are a couple of scenarios there, none of which I know.
 
Catherine_S said:
Got it, the Catholic Church can do nothing about anyone who enters the Church and receives the Blessed Sacrament!!
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Absolutely correct! The Church does not require anyone to present authorization to be able to receive the Sacrament. Ours is a closed Communion, but it can’t be physically enforced.
 
Miserissima said:
I’ve read in some articles that Father spoke with Barbara before Mass, and told her then she was not to receive the Eucharist.

I’ve read in others that the lady was not told that she could not receive until she was in the reception line.

🤷 There are a couple of scenarios there, none of which I know.
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I’m sure Father will clear it up with his superiors. Either way I don’t see him being removed as a pastor over it. Worst case, he’ll receive some counseling from his Bishop.
 
Give Father the benefit of the doubt. He isn’t the one living in sin with his same sex sexual partner. Sounds like a setup from the get go imo.
 
rlg94086 said:
I’m sure Father will clear it up with his superiors. Either way I don’t see him being removed as a pastor over it. Worst case, he’ll receive some counseling from his Bishop.
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Too bad the counseling she will receive is through the media.
 
hudson said:
**Give Father the benefit of the doubt. ** He isn’t the one living in sin with his same sex sexual partner. Sounds like a setup from the get go imo.
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Absolutely. Father may have erred in his application of Canon Law, but he was obviously trying to do the right thing. I don’t know if it was a set-up or not. If it’s true that she introduced her partner/lover to the priest beforehand, it certainly sounds like there may have been some intent involved.
 
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