[Practicing, Poorly Catechized] Lesbian Denied Communion at Mother's Funeral

[Catherine_S]

With all due respect, I am not convinced he didn’t follow canon law properly. Even the statement from the diocese is very carefully worded. It doesn’t say Father was wrong to deny her Communion, only that he did not act with sufficient pastoral sensitivity.

The refusal of Holy Communion is in a* different*** context in this article but when the true story of this situation comes out, I think we will find that this women is well known in that parish for it was her mother’s parish, she is a **ex **Catholic School teacher, vocal about her lifestyle, and does not like to hear " No".

.
"The Church’s law is very clear," said Archbishop Burke, who was appointed last year by Pope Benedict XVI as the* head** of the Church’s highest court, the Apostolic Signatura. “The person who persists publicly in grave sin** is to be denied Holy Communion**, and it [Canon Law] doesn’t say that the bishop shall decide this.** It’s an absolute.”***
.
In refusing, far from politicising the Eucharist, the Church is returning the matter to its religious reality. The most* important** reasons to refuse, he said, are pastoral and religious in nature.*
. *
"The Holy Eucharist**, the** most sacred reality** of our life in the Church, has to be protected against sacrilege. At the same time, individuals have to be protected for the sake of their** own salvation** from committing one of the gravest sins, namely to** receive Holy Communion unworthily**." *
Archbishop Burke also dismissed the commonly proffered excuse that such politicians need more “education”. *
.
.Archbishop Burke said that the issue had been debated enough. He rejected the idea that the matter** should be left to the US Conference of Catholic Bishops, saying the Conference has** no authority** in the matter. "This is a** law of the universal Church** and it should be applied*
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2009/feb/09020402

 

[Catherine_S]

With all due respect, I am not convinced he didn’t follow canon law properly. Even the statement from the diocese is very carefully worded. It doesn’t say Father was wrong to deny her Communion, only that he did not act with sufficient pastoral sensitivity.

The refusal of Holy Communion is in a* different*** context in this article but when the true story of this situation comes out, I think we will find that this women is well known in that parish for it was her mother’s parish, she is a **ex **Catholic School teacher, vocal about her lifestyle, and does not like to hear " No"apparently.

.
"The Church’s law is very clear," said Archbishop Burke, who was appointed last year by Pope Benedict XVI as the* head** of the Church’s highest court, the Apostolic Signatura. “The person who persists publicly in grave sin** is to be denied Holy Communion**, and it [Canon Law] doesn’t say that the bishop shall decide this.** It’s an absolute.”***
.
In refusing, far from politicising the Eucharist, the Church is returning the matter to its religious reality. The most* important** reasons to refuse, he said, are pastoral and religious in nature.*
. *
"The Holy Eucharist**, the** most sacred reality** of our life in the Church, has to be protected against sacrilege. At the same time, individuals have to be protected for the sake of their** own salvation** from committing one of the gravest sins, namely to** receive Holy Communion unworthily**." *
Archbishop Burke also dismissed the commonly proffered excuse that such politicians need more “education”. *
.
.Archbishop Burke said that the issue had been debated enough. He rejected the idea that the matter** should be left to the US Conference of Catholic Bishops, saying the Conference has** no authority** in the matter. "This is a** law of the universal Church** and it should be applied*
http://www.lifesitenews.com/news/archive/ldn/2009/feb/09020402

 

[seekerz]

How was she not laid to rest properly?

The priest left the Sanctuary during the eulogy - which is after the funeral Mass is over. Another priest did the graveside prayers. What was missing for the mother?

Maybe I didn’t word it properly, what I meant is, from the priest’s viewpoint, what prevented him from performing the graveside ceremony for the dead woman? Why did another priest have to be found?

 

[bellasbane]

I believe Jesus would have said there are times, such as at a funeral, when solidarity and compassion should override the letter of the law. Throughout the Gospels, he routinely violates the Mosaic law, such as when he heals the cripple at Bethesda on the Sabbath (Jn 5:1-18). Lets not be like the Pharisees who tried all the more to kill him for his compassion.

This woman was grieving the loss of her mother and sought comfort for that grief from the Lord. I cannot image that Jesus, who loved his mother dearly, would have pushed her away at a time like that. It is inconceivable to me.

I don’t know what was going on in the mind of that priest, but he made a error. He is only human and such things happen. Perhaps he was sick or having an anxiety attack. However, the response of everyone else associated with the Church was exactly right.

I think that should be the point we take from this story.

 

[Corki]

Maybe I didn’t word it properly, what I meant is, from the priest’s viewpoint, what prevented him from performing the graveside ceremony for the dead woman? Why did another priest have to be found?

Well, according to the original story, he became ill. That’s a legitimate reason. I think we have to give him the benefit of the doubt on that unless we hear otherwise. Regardless of the reason, the dead woman was properly cared for and given a funeral and burial rites.

 

[Moore11]

This is the next step folks. The HHS mandate opens the door to try to force the Church to do many other things as well. Like marry gay Catholics. Scary times we are living in…

 

[Elizium23]

I believe Jesus would have said there are times, such as at a funeral, when solidarity and compassion should override the letter of the law. Throughout the Gospels, he routinely violates the Mosaic law, such as when he heals the cripple at Bethesda on the Sabbath (Jn 5:1-18). Lets not be like the Pharisees who tried all the more to kill him for his compassion.

This woman was grieving the loss of her mother and sought comfort for that grief from the Lord. I cannot image that Jesus, who loved his mother dearly, would have pushed her away at a time like that. It is inconceivable to me.

I don’t know what was going on in the mind of that priest, but he made a error. He is only human and such things happen. Perhaps he was sick or having an anxiety attack. However, the response of everyone else associated with the Church was exactly right.

I think that should be the point we take from this story.

A core tenet of Catholic belief is that the ends do not justify the means, and evil must not be done so that good can result. This woman desired to receive Holy Communion while in a state of grave sin, which is itself a grave sin that compounds the problem. The well-meaning priest took steps to prevent this woman from eating and drinking condemnation upon herself.

That being said, the priest did not correctly follow the discipline of the Church prescribed in these situations by Canon Law, and has unfortunately created an incident that reflects poorly on his pastoral decision and the general practice of denying Holy Communion to obstinate sinners.

 

[mlund]

Reading the article over at Lifesite some details become clear:

1.) The woman made it known that her sin was manifest to the priest before the Mass.

2.) The priest instructed her (rightly or wrongly) that she was not to receive the Eucharist.

3.) The “lover” introduced to the priest “barred” him (physically accosted the priest ) from further instructing the woman in question.

4.) The woman was obstinate and went up to receive from the priest in defiance of the celebrant’s explicit instruction.

It is the bishop’s prerogative to interpret Canon 915 and set down policy for determining what constitutes “obstinately persevering in a sinful state” within his diocese unless otherwise countermanded by valid authority - direct instruction from the Holy See, a valid Council, or an otherwise overlooked section of the law, etc. The policies will vary from diocese to diocese.

It is likewise the celebrant’s prerogative to make such an interpretation unless otherwise countermanded or instructed by lawful authority. If the priest was not aware of the specific interpretation being applied by his diocese (goodness knows I hope this is the first and last time the poor man is subject to such temerity) then he acted in err, but in good faith.

• Marty Lund

 

[Brendan]

Not 100% correct. He should have followed the requirements of Canon Law. If he were 100% in the right as so many here believe, I doubt that the Archdiocese would have issued an apology and an explanation. I think the Archdiocesan opinion overrules that of a parish priest.

It seems he pretty much did.

Here is the Vatican’s Council on Legislative Texts, which issues documentation on how Canon Law is to be observed

Pontifical Council for Legislative Texts, Declaration “Concerning the admission to holy Communion of faithful who are divorced and remarried” (24 June 2000), .

2. Any interpretation of can. 915 that would set itself against the canon's substantial content, as declared uninterruptedly by the Magisterium and by the discipline of the Church throughout the centuries, is clearly misleading. One cannot confuse respect for the wording of the law (cfr. can. 17) with the improper use of the very same wording as an instrument for relativizing the precepts or emptying them of their substance.

1. … The discernment of cases in which the faithful who find themselves in the described condition are to be excluded from Eucharistic Communion is the responsibility of the Priest who is responsible for the community. They are to give precise instructions to the deacon or to any extraordinary minister regarding the mode of acting in concrete situations.
2. Bearing in mind the nature of the above-cited norm (cfr. n. 1), no ecclesiastical authority may dispense the minister of Holy Communion from this obligation in any case, nor may he emanate directives that contradict it.

The case in question was if a divorced and remarried person presented themselves for Holy Communion, but it would seem to be similar in this case as well.

The decision falls on the pastor, and it is an obligation that cannot be dispensed by any eccesial authority.

 

[Ecoclimber]

"A lifelong Catholic and former Catholic school teacher, Barbara says she hadn’t even considered that her sexual orientation would be a problem with Father Marcel until she stepped forward to take communion."

No, she is not a Catholic especially when she adheres to a lifestyle and a belief in another religion, Buddhism which is diametrically opposed and abhorrent to the Official Doctrines as determined by the Magisterium of Catholic Church.

This was a set up from the get go and the Catholic Church and the priest were the pawns. She had an agenda. She was so filled with pride that she felt compelled to dictate to the priest and to the Church, her own distorted and evil views on what should be the acceptable doctrine within the Catholic Church. The priest is shepherd who is entrusted to guard his flock from ravaging wolves who try to enter. He was in a no win situation. The fact that she knowingly went to the national press afterwards, was for the sole intended purpose to cast further aspersions upon the Catholic Church knowing that she would have the politically correct, public opinion, on her side.

If she dislike the doctrines of the Catholic Church in regard to homosexuality than she should have made arrangements elsewhere that were more accommodating to her beliefs.

The fact that she knowingly flaunted openly her Lesbian lover in front of the priest and other members of the Catholic Community in a state of rebellion and sin, wanted to participated in Holy Communion which in a sense desecrated the Host, mortal sin, then it would be the obligation of the priest to prevent such a sacrilege from being committed as he would be a willing and knowingly participant in the commission of her sin if he allowed her to receive Holy Communion.

People say all sorts of things stating that they are Catholic who never go to Church or obey Her teachings. Whether she was a Catholic school teacher remains to be seen. But, the fact that she was raised a Catholic gives her no excuse for not knowing the teaching and doctrines of the Catholic Church concerning homosexuality and knowingly receiving Holy Communion in a state of mortal sin.

Justin Martyr. Christian apologist, 110 - 165 AD stated:
"And let those who are not found living as He taught, be understood to be no Christians, even though they profess with the lip the precepts of Christ; for not those who make profession, but those who do the works, shall be saved, according to His word"

Many opinions were express on whether she was in a state of mortal sin. The fact that she informed the priest of her belief in a tenet of another religious belief system other than Christianity and the fact that she brought her lesbian lover to the church, indicated that she has not repented and has continued to maintain her non-celibate lifestyle. Repentance according to Jesus and the teaching of the disciples means to turn away from your sin. So if she did go to confession and ask the priest for absolution, she would not have received pardon for her mortal sins as the key ingredient for absolution, repentance and just not be sorry for your sins, in confession was missing, the intent to forsake your mortal sin. This is outline in the catechism of the Catholic Church. It is clear she rejects the Church’s teaching in this area and wallows in her sin with her life partner.

If anything, the insensitive person is not the priest but her. The priest is the spiritual authority and shepherd of his church. He has a duty and responsibility to insure that the faithful administration and adherence to correct doctrine and procedures as promulgated by the Magisterium of the Catholic Church are carried out.

She should with all humility, should have talked to the priest as her spiritual authority and advisor and explained to him her situation and beliefs and asked him if he would allow her to receive Holy Communion based on her statements.

St. Paul stated in Corinthians that a little leaven will spoil the whole batch when the church allowed sin to fester among its members. In fact, if you read the writings of the early church Fathers - these men of faith who were not only taught by the apostles but appointed by the apostles into their positions of authority - the standard practice would remove such a person from their church congregation who openly and defiantly lived a lifestyle of immorality. They would not allow this person back into the church until those in authority had observed repentance over a period of time on the part of the person removed.

Pope Benedict XVI in his recent Lenten address talked about the dangers of moral relativism.

The priest should be promoted to a Bishop for actually enforcing Catholic Doctrine with his church.

A research conducted by Pew Research Center stated that only 5% of Catholics show any accountability to Church leaders and to Catholic Doctrine. The lowest number of all Christian denominations.

 

[He_Man]

Great, a Catholic Buddhist lesbian; the worst kind

Talk about feigned outrage and a set up.

Again, if she truly loved and respected her mother, she’d have not made a scene, and respected her mother’s religion’s beliefs. Instead, she chose to be a lesbian first, and a Catholic last. Cry me a river.

 

[Catherine_S]

**"A lifelong Catholic and former Catholic school teacher, Barbara says she hadn’t even considered that her sexual orientation would be a problem with Father Marcel until she stepped forward to take communion **

The priest should be promoted to a Bishop for actually enforcing Catholic Doctrine with his church.

 

[Luna_Lovecraft]

How was she not laid to rest properly?

The priest left the Sanctuary during the eulogy - which is after the funeral Mass is over. Another priest did the graveside prayers. What was missing for the mother?

I’ve never been to a Catholic funeral where the priest left during the eulogy and didn’t accompany the family to the graveside, requiring the family to do a last-minute finding of another priest to do the graveside prayers.

If that’s common in other parts, I’m glad I’ve never had to bury someone there.

Luna

 

[joanofarc2008]

Could you kindly cite the applicable Canon Law?

NewEnglandPries already did.

 

[PaulinVA]

The case in question was if a divorced and remarried person presented themselves for Holy Communion, but it would seem to be similar in this case as well.

The decision falls on the pastor, and it is an obligation that cannot be dispensed by any eccesial authority.

Thanks, Brenden.

While I am a little miffed with the woman for presenting herself for Communion and creating this situation, I am more upset with the Bishop for siding with the Buddhist married lesbian and throwing the good Father under the bus.

 

[Khalid]

Two unrelated women living in the same house, not self-identifying as lesbian…how can you know what their relationship is, gossip notwithstanding? Not saying that this was the case, but do we know? I don’t see that we do.

This has nothing to do with the case. If so, no roommates could ever commune.

 

[grasscutter]

This has nothing to do with the case. If so, no roommates could ever commune.

Somewhat off topic, but still relevant… To all those who found the idea of lesbians living together chastely to be preposterous - consider all the heterosexual married couples who no longer engage in intimate relations. Just saying… maybe we can stop assuming sin. Most likely it exists but we don’t know… Therefore…

 

[ByzCathCantor]

Again, if she truly loved and respected her mother, she’d have not made a scene, and respected her mother’s religion’s beliefs. Instead, she chose to be a lesbian first, and a Catholic last.

… actually, it appears as if she chose to be a loving daughter last, and to use this sad occasion for something other than honoring her mother’s memory. That perhaps is the saddest part of all of this!

 

[Corki]

Somewhat off topic, but still relevant… To all those who found the idea of lesbians living together chastely to be preposterous - consider all the heterosexual married couples who no longer engage in intimate relations. Just saying… maybe we can stop assuming sin. Most likely it exists but we don’t know… Therefore…

No, we don’t need to do any assuming to see sin. If the couple are calling themselves lesbians and introducing each other as partners and acting to all the world as a couple, they are still not living in a state of grace. Homosexual activity is not limited to genital sex.

 

[meltzerboy]

Great, a Catholic Buddhist lesbian; the worst kind

Talk about feigned outrage and a set up.

Again, if she truly loved and respected her mother, she’d have not made a scene, and respected her mother’s religion’s beliefs. Instead, she chose to be a lesbian first, and a Catholic last. Cry me a river.

The worst kind of what: Catholic, lesbian, Buddhist, woman, or person? Sorry, it’s late, and I couldn’t resist.