Practising Catholic Gay Couple?

[Cracker_Mom]

Here’s something I just don’t get: 2 professionals who attend Mass,they’re involved in the parish & hold positions of great responsibility in the deeply Catholic community, well respected & each previously married with several kids.
The trouble is that they live together & describe each other in public as their " life partner."
Noone’s assuming they live chastely together, but I suppose that’s an option to consider in charity.
This is in a relative’s diocese & they claim that homosexual behavior is not seen as a grave issue there. I’m confused, but a little suspicious that it may also be this wealthy couple’s professional skills,& generous donations to the Church & community that makes their acceptance into an otherwise conservative Catholic environment possible.
I truly believe in charity & believing the best of folks. Maybe you can live chastely yet still publicly proclaim yourselves a gay couple? Still sounds like an occasion of scandal… I’m confused.

 

[LittleOne1]

I would say that in this day and age, the way they present themselves presents at the very least scandal because people could justly question the rightness of their relationship. I think it is acceptable to talk with the pastor and question whether it is good to have such a couple involved the way they are even if they do donate lots of money (maybe the pastor for some reason has no real idea). If he seems unwilling after talking to him, you might have to go to the bishop, but in no way should these people unless they explain themselves and show that things are otherwise then they make it seem; the statements themselves they make are scandalous in themselves; “life partners.”

 

[Cracker_Mom]

I would say that in this day and age, the way they present themselves presents at the very least scandal because people could justly question the rightness of their relationship. I think it is acceptable to talk with the pastor and question whether it is good to have such a couple involved the way they are even if they do donate lots of money (maybe the pastor for some reason has no real idea). If he seems unwilling after talking to him, you might have to go to the bishop, but in no way should these people unless they explain themselves and show that things are otherwise then they make it seem; the statements themselves they make are scandalous in themselves; “life partners.”

Thanks for your (name removed by moderator)ut. Appreciate it.
As far as I know “life partner” is Gay-Speak for homosexual co-habitation. But perhaps I’m wrong & these folks live as celibates? Common sense would say no, though, and it does sound like scandal.If they were angry at the Church, I’d get it, but they represent themselves as faithful Catholics. So, one of us at least is confused…or misunderstanding something.

 

[Edwardjohn]

We have no right to judge. Jesus told us not to judge. God knows all things; “Have no anxiety at all, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, make your requests known to God. Then the peace of God that surpasses all understanding will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus.”

 

[Cracker_Mom]

We have no right to judge. Jesus told us not to judge. God knows all things; “Have no anxiety at all, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, make your requests known to God. Then the peace of God that surpasses all understanding will guard your hearts and minds in Christ Jesus.”

My question was with understanding, not judgment.

 

[LittleOne1]

And judgement there does not mean, do not tell others they are doing something wrong, it means do not condemn others ie to hell or say they are unforgivable. Otherwise Jesus would contradict himself in Luke 17:3 when he says, “Be on your guard! 1 If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.” In fact it is part of the Spiritual Work of Mercy if in the right way we correct sinners because it shows we care about the welfare of their souls. The apostles never would have accomplished anything if they sat around and prayed that sinners would change; Paul himself rebuked Peter for his sin.

 

[Discerning2]

My question was with understanding, not judgment.

I mean absolutely no disrespect to my Beloved Church when I offer the following. The elephant in the room is the number of priest & bishops who are gay. Celibate & holy men–most. In college I met a gay vicar general, bishop & many, many priests. As far as I knew they were all chaste & holy men of God. I offer this because it is a bit odd to be holding up seemingly good people for their homosexuality when the whole church would collapse if the same was done to our clergy. Your efforts might be better spent praying for them & thanking them for their involvement in the church. Please remember, we are the keeper of our own souls & gossiping is a sin.

By the looks of the small aging 6am mass-goers, it is apparent to me that we need everybody.

 

[JRKH]

Here’s something I just don’t get: 2 professionals who attend Mass,they’re involved in the parish & hold positions of great responsibility in the deeply Catholic community, well respected & each previously married with several kids.
The trouble is that they live together & describe each other in public as their " life partner."
Noone’s assuming they live chastely together, but I suppose that’s an option to consider in charity.
This is in a relative’s diocese & they claim that homosexual behavior is not seen as a grave issue there. I’m confused, but a little suspicious that it may also be this wealthy couple’s professional skills,& generous donations to the Church & community that makes their acceptance into an otherwise conservative Catholic environment possible.
I truly believe in charity & believing the best of folks. Maybe you can live chastely yet still publicly proclaim yourselves a gay couple? Still sounds like an occasion of scandal… I’m confused.

First of all - Lets be clear.
There is no such thing as a Practicing catholic (actively) gay couple.

That being said, if these people are living a celibate life they are not sinning. However it would be better for them and for the community if they lived apart.

The statement you make above that, “This is in a relative’s diocese & they claim that homosexual behavior is not seen as a grave issue there.” **The Catechism **says this:
Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. **Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” **They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. **Under no circumstances can they be approved. **

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

By the above we can see that the church sees homosexuality as a grave matter. She also declares taht it cannot be condoned in any way.
So
If they are living in sin, and this is being tolerated/glossed over/condoned by the priest then this priest will have much to answer for at judgement. He is permitting a sinful situation to continue without addressing it effectively.

For those who, “claim that homosexual behavior is not seen as a grave issue there”, you might want to show them what the official church teaching is on the matter. That way they cannot plead ignorance.

NOTE: All of my statements are based on the information provided in the OP. None of us can know what the perople involved, priest, the deacons, parishoners etc., might be doing to help this “couple”.

 

[JRKH]

I mean absolutely no disrespect to my Beloved Church when I offer the following. The elephant in the room is the number of priest & bishops who are gay. Celibate & holy men–most. In college I met a gay vicar general, bishop & many, many priests. As far as I knew they were all chaste & holy men of God. I offer this because it is a bit odd to be holding up seemingly good people for their homosexuality when the whole church would collapse if the same was done to our clergy. Your efforts might be better spent praying for them & thanking them for their involvement in the church. Please remember, we are the keeper of our own souls & gossiping is a sin.

By the looks of the small aging 6am mass-goers, it is apparent to me that we need everybody.

So long as these people are in fact living a chaste life, as you believe the clergy are, then there can be no complaint.
However, when they are living together, and introducing themselves as “Life partners”, there should indeed be concern for their souls by their fellow Christians. At the very least they are placing themselves daily in the “near occasion” of sin.

You are right though that we should in all things approach the problem with Love and Prayer.

Peace
James

 

[Discerning2]

First of all - Lets be clear.
There is no such thing as a Practicing catholic (actively) gay couple.

That being said, if these people are living a celibate life they are not sinning. However it would be better for them and for the community if they lived apart.

The statement you make above that, “This is in a relative’s diocese & they claim that homosexual behavior is not seen as a grave issue there.” **The Catechism **says this:
Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. **Under no circumstances can they be approved. **

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

By the above we can see that the church sees homosexuality as a grave matter. She also declares taht it cannot be condoned in any way.
So
If they are living in sin, and this is being tolerated/glossed over/condoned by the priest then this priest will have much to answer for at judgement. He is permitting a sinful situation to continue without addressing it effectively.

For those who, “claim that homosexual behavior is not seen as a grave issue there”, you might want to show them what the official church teaching is on the matter. That way they cannot plead ignorance.

NOTE: All of my statements are based on the information provided in the OP. None of us can know what the perople involved, priest, the deacons, parishoners etc., might be doing to help this “couple”.

Yes, homosexual persons are called to be chaste. This is slightly off topic. But just as an observation, when gays are chaste we sort of have a deer in the headlights approach. Like, really, cool. Nothing more. But I was thinking about this the other day. How wonderful & holy these people must be to deny their essential nature for Christ. I bet they have a lot to offer us in their spiritual journey.

I am still supporting the gay couple. When I was growing up (a billion years ago), most gay couples had no problem worshiping without fear or gossip. We all knew who they were, went to their houses, worked together on parish related projects. What is it about our church now that seems to want to push people away. It’s getting strange & I pray that it stops. Christ never came to us as the wagging finger of a church lady.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

So long as these people are in fact living a chaste life, as you believe the clergy are, then there can be no complaint.
However, when they are living together, and introducing themselves as “Life partners”, there should indeed be concern for their souls by their fellow Christians. At the very least they are placing themselves daily in the “near occasion” of sin.

You are right though that we should in all things approach the problem with Love and Prayer.

Peace
James

It was the part where they represent themselves as “Life Partners” that threw me.
I totally respect when folks with same sex attraction lead celibate lives & can only imagine their challenges.That said, if one was leading a chaste life in accordance with Church teaching would you live under the same roof with a “Life Partner” and introduce yourselves as a couple? Maybe so, but I’m at a loss to understand.

 

[LittleOne1]

It was the part where they represent themselves as “Life Partners” that threw me.
I totally respect when folks with same sex attraction lead celibate lives & can only imagine their challenges.That said, if one was leading a chaste life in accordance with Church teaching would you live under the same roof with a “Life Partner” and introduce yourselves as a couple? Maybe so, but I’m at a loss to understand.

CrackerMom,
At the very least they are scandal to the congregation; its not you reading into things, it is in fact language that today we could very easily see what they mean. The other ideas about needing all the people we can get makes no sense if these people live outside the life of Christ and have continue to do so in spite of Church teaching. Unfortunatgely other Prostestant denominations have given into allowing sinful relationships and celebrating it to look popular and do well in the eyes of the people, as well as increase congregations, but not please God.

 

[Edwardjohn]

And judgement there does not mean, do not tell others they are doing something wrong, it means do not condemn others ie to hell or say they are unforgivable. Otherwise Jesus would contradict himself in Luke 17:3 when he says, “Be on your guard! 1 If your brother sins, rebuke him; and if he repents, forgive him.” In fact it is part of the Spiritual Work of Mercy if in the right way we correct sinners because it shows we care about the welfare of their souls. The apostles never would have accomplished anything if they sat around and prayed that sinners would change; Paul himself rebuked Peter for his sin.

If the sin is obvious, I agree, but if not, again, God knows what is happening and He will not be mocked.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

CrackerMom,
At the very least they are scandal to the congregation; its not you reading into things, it is in fact language that today we could very easily see what they mean. The other ideas about needing all the people we can get makes no sense if these people live outside the life of Christ and have continue to do so in spite of Church teaching. Unfortunatgely other Prostestant denominations have given into allowing sinful relationships and celebrating it to look popular and do well in the eyes of the people, as well as increase congregations, but not please God.

And from what I read, the more liberal Protestant congregations are losing members in part due to lack of clear teachings on moral/theological issues.

 

[JRKH]

Yes, homosexual persons are called to be chaste. This is slightly off topic. But just as an observation, when gays are chaste we sort of have a deer in the headlights approach. Like, really, cool. Nothing more. But I was thinking about this the other day. How wonderful & holy these people must be to deny their essential nature for Christ. I bet they have a lot to offer us in their spiritual journey.

Almost anyone who is called to a chaste life is going against their “essential nature”.
That being said, I agree that such people do have a lot to offer on the spiritual journey.

I am still supporting the gay couple. When I was growing up (a billion years ago), most gay couples had no problem worshiping without fear or gossip. We all knew who they were, went to their houses, worked together on parish related projects.

Are you supporting the gay couple in the sense that these people need to lead a chaste life, or are you supporting them in acting on their homosexual tendancies?
The first is perfectly OK and in accordance with the teaching of the Church.
The second is not is sinful for you. I say this not in judgement but in Love. By supporting a sinful lifestyle one commits the sin of “leading astray and teaching others to do so”.

What is it about our church now that seems to want to push people away. It’s getting strange & I pray that it stops. Christ never came to us as the wagging finger of a church lady.

Why do you think that the Church is trying to push people away? The Church wants all to come and be saved. That does not mean the Church can change essential teaching just to “fill the pews”. Homosexuality has always been condemned as an unnatural act. It is a grave matter and has always been taught as such.
Yes Christ was very Loving but he was also very firm about what is and is not sin. He calls us to Love the sinner but to hate the sin, which is just what the Catachism is teaching.
That being siad, I can agree that there are those among us who, because of our own spitiual immaturity, treat these other people in an unchristian (and unproductive) manner.

Peace
James

 

[peary]

Here’s something I just don’t get: 2 professionals who attend Mass,they’re involved in the parish & hold positions of great responsibility in the deeply Catholic community, well respected & each previously married with several kids.
The trouble is that they live together & describe each other in public as their " life partner."
Noone’s assuming they live chastely together, but I suppose that’s an option to consider in charity.
This is in a relative’s diocese & they claim that homosexual behavior is not seen as a grave issue there. I’m confused, but a little suspicious that it may also be this wealthy couple’s professional skills,& generous donations to the Church & community that makes their acceptance into an otherwise conservative Catholic environment possible.
I truly believe in charity & believing the best of folks. Maybe you can live chastely yet still publicly proclaim yourselves a gay couple? Still sounds like an occasion of scandal… I’m confused.

There’s nothing like flaunting one’s sexuality in yhour face, is there?

By the very fact that they can do this in the church in front of other people shows that they are correct: homosexual behavior is probably not seen as an important issue in that diocese.

OF COURSE, it is a scandal for the Church there, and I lay the responsibility strictly upon the shoulders of not only the pastor but the bishop as well. Of course, knowing how secular discrimination laws are today, one cannot say too much without fear of a lawsuit. I am sure they will eventually get tired of working for the Church as it will not recognize their partnership. Give it time.

 

[LCMS_No_More]

First of all - Lets be clear.
There is no such thing as a Practicing catholic (actively) gay couple.

That being said, if these people are living a celibate life they are not sinning. However it would be better for them and for the community if they lived apart.

The statement you make above that, “This is in a relative’s diocese & they claim that homosexual behavior is not seen as a grave issue there.” **The Catechism **says this:
Chastity and homosexuality

2357 Homosexuality refers to relations between men or between women who experience an exclusive or predominant sexual attraction toward persons of the same sex. It has taken a great variety of forms through the centuries and in different cultures. Its psychological genesis remains largely unexplained. Basing itself on Sacred Scripture, which presents homosexual acts as acts of grave depravity, tradition has always declared that “homosexual acts are intrinsically disordered.” They are contrary to the natural law. They close the sexual act to the gift of life. They do not proceed from a genuine affective and sexual complementarity. **Under no circumstances can they be approved. **

2358 The number of men and women who have deep-seated homosexual tendencies is not negligible. This inclination, which is objectively disordered, constitutes for most of them a trial. They must be accepted with respect, compassion, and sensitivity. Every sign of unjust discrimination in their regard should be avoided. These persons are called to fulfill God’s will in their lives and, if they are Christians, to unite to the sacrifice of the Lord’s Cross the difficulties they may encounter from their condition.

2359 Homosexual persons are called to chastity. By the virtues of self-mastery that teach them inner freedom, at times by the support of disinterested friendship, by prayer and sacramental grace, they can and should gradually and resolutely approach Christian perfection.

By the above we can see that the church sees homosexuality as a grave matter. She also declares taht it cannot be condoned in any way.
So
If they are living in sin, and this is being tolerated/glossed over/condoned by the priest then this priest will have much to answer for at judgement. He is permitting a sinful situation to continue without addressing it effectively.

For those who, “claim that homosexual behavior is not seen as a grave issue there”, you might want to show them what the official church teaching is on the matter. That way they cannot plead ignorance.

NOTE: All of my statements are based on the information provided in the OP. None of us can know what the perople involved, priest, the deacons, parishoners etc., might be doing to help this “couple”.

I’m not condoning two same-sex attracted persons engaging in sexual activity, but I do find it very interesting that the paragraph I bolded and emphasized above is usually ignored by people in the Church today.

 

[Cracker_Mom]

I’m not condoning two same-sex attracted persons engaging in sexual activity, but I do find it very interesting that the paragraph I bolded and emphasized above is usually ignored by people in the Church today.

Appreciate your comment. Thank you!

I thought your quote from J.K.Gailbraith (Sorry, can’t remember the spelling) was amusing.Coming from a long paternal line of stingy Scots, I hear what he’s saying about conservatives. It’s sometimes true. But I think we need to differentiate between being generous with money we earn & money other people have earned.
The other truism is that socialism works just fine til you run out of other folks’ money to spend.

 

[Dirk_Skene]

"Practising Catholic Gay Couple " is an oxymoron I hope this is a recent & not an ongoing thing. Otherwise I’d have to say the pastor is either blind, has no backbone or chooses to ignore the Church. Much like a local bishop I know :sad_yes:

 

[PapaSquash]

I couldn’t help but notice the part where they were married to two other people, and had children. Were these unions anulled?