Praise and worship music for Mass?

[Beverly]

I agree, it is sad that more people do not play the piano (I actually have an old piano in my house and no one really can play it - but some day…) and as for playing the organ, some people assume that if you can play the piano, you can play the organ and while you might be able to get a melody out of it, that is a far cry from actually being able to play the organ. We have only one woman in our very large church who can play the organ and no one else. So sad, but fortunately for us, we have a ton of guitar players. Actually, I play the guitar but never do so at mass because I think 3 guitars with a 10 member group is almost too much already. Our choir is careful to be liturgically correct all the time, although sometimes our opinions differ on what that means. We do our best and follow our priest’s advice on what we should and shouldn’t do.

 

[Elizabeth_B]

carlc:

The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass cannot be lessened despite surroundings and distractions.

Very true! Thank you for the reminder.

 

[jordan]

Originally Posted by carlc*The Holy Sacrifice of the Mass cannot be lessened despite surroundings and distractions. *

Very true, but…we mere mortals can have our “experience” of the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass diminished by peripherals. Casual attitudes towards the Mass and everything that surround it have resulted (in my humble opinion) in a general malaise in our country. To me, “Ecclesia de Eucharistia” was Rome’s way of telling us that the sacrifice of Calvary is a big deal…let’s treat it like one…let’s give it the best we have to offer.
If we treat it like it’s no big deal, some will begin to believe it is no big deal.

 

[tcaseyrochester]

Karl Keating:

I have yet to hear guitar music that was as appropriate, reverent, and uplifting as music from an organ or “music” from plainchant.

Hi Karl -

I heard you say something similar on the radio. If you ever are in the Rochester NY area, please consider attending a mass at Resurrection in Fairport. I know I complain a lot on this forum about abuses of the Liturgy there, but the music is wonderful (as prayer, not entertainment). Our music minister plays guitar so beautifully it will bring tears to your eyes. When he plays the Lamb of God from The Mass of Creation the notes coming off the guitar are as gentle as a light rain. Its very prayerful and reverant. The problem is very few people have achieved that level of skill and just strum out a series of chords instead. I think in God’s eyes its all good. The most important thing is that the music be prayerful and that the instrumentalist doesn’t try to put on a big show.

I sometimes fill in for him on the piano, but I never seem to achieve the reverance he does (at least in my own self criticism).

My favorite saying regarding liturgy music is that the Lord is just as pleased with the croaking of frogs as the singing of birds.

God Bless You!!

 

[pittsburghjeff]

OK…I would like to ask the most basic question to help find an answer to all of this

What is the purpose of music at mass?
Why do we have it at all?
If the eucharist is the center and we don’t want to distract from it, why have music?

Music must add something to the liturgy? What?

 

[darwindidntknow]

I am an evangelical so we don’t sing hymns or chants or w/e. Personally, I don’t find old style music as appropriate for worship God as hard rock worship. There’s nothing wrong with organs and **** but I like my electric guitars and drums .

 

[Ellen_Marie]

I have now heard Mr. Keating, and others, state in several forums that guitar and piano music does not lend itself to reverence in the Mass. I would like to make two points:

1.  I grew up attending and participating in what we called “folk” Masses.  This simply meant that the music consisted of  singing accompanied by guitar, and we had folk groups oriented for teenagers, adults and families.  The music of the St. Louis Jesuits built my spiritual life in a way that formal music accompanied by the organ likely would not have.  The music my teen group sang added to worship at Sunday Mass and weddings, and was frequently requested for funerals.  The chapel at my secular university, which held about 500 people, was full for Sunday Mass each week.  Those who did not care for the guitar Mass had 2 other Masses from which to choose.  Although now, in my 30’s, I have developed an appreciation for the hymns and the organ, this music did not reach me as a younger adult.  To this day I pray on my own using the music that I sang as a teen and as a college student.  The first writer accusing the lyrics “calling in the night” as representing paranoia would do well to review the call of Samuel, who played an important role in our salvation history.  It is important to recognize our relationship with Jesus both as Church and as individuals, and the music of the Mass can help us do both and still worship God as we are called to do in the liturgy.

2.  It is not the style of the music which determines reverence but the hearts of the worshippers.  Due to business travel, I have attended Mass all over the country in addition to throughout my diocese.  The quiet in the Church is not always reverence, but is often apathy.  This is much less reverent than “praise and worship” music.  People who prefer organ music should attend Mass where this is used.   However, to judge other types of worship as irreverent simply based on style is inappropriate.

Ellen

 

[Timothy]

Teddy:

Why does the music at Mass need to be limited to organ music?

I don’t think that we actually need to limit music at Mass to the organ, and I think that very few would try and intentionally make that case. I think that it is as I have heard recently stated, that Liturgical Music should flow from and be inspired by Gregorian Chant and that above all it should be chosen for it’s apropriateness to it’s place within the liturgy.

 

[Timothy]

BrianDay:

the best hymns actually teach you something about the Faith.

Like how the eastern church uses prayer as a sort of catechesis to pass on theological concepts, something done to a lesser extent in the western church…

 

[Disillusioned]

Quick Question:What tells you directly that “Here am I Lord” has anything to do with Samuel ? Wouldn’t it be a far better hymn if it did not merge God with the person being addressed ? (That’s my paranoia) Same pronouns used of both God and the person talking back in the refrain.

The poetry is unpleasant word association “I the Lord of wind and flame/ I will tend the poor and lame” Then loose idea, start taking about a feast …This is pantheistic as is the first line “I the Lord of sea and sky” In Christianity God is not identified with His creation.This song muddles the distinction almost beyond repair.

Obviously music meant alot to the Jesuit who launched this on us, I hear he left the priesthood to go on being a musician. Well some clerics have their priorities right…

I meant it…the song certainly never evokes Samuel for me.

 

[Ellen_Marie]

To me, the song “Here I am, Lord” is about the Lord of the Universe reaching into his creation (tending the poor and lame, etc., like a shepherd). It does not say that he is the sea, or the sky, or the wind or flame, but that he is the Lord of them, which we know from multiple episodes in the Bible, for example, Jesus calming the storm on the Sea of Galilee. He then is struggling to reach them (break their hearts of stone, this is most of the Old and New Testaments), and choosing someone to send. The reply comes back from the people (me), “Here I am, send me.” The lyrics echo 1 Samuel 3, in which the Lord calls Samuel while Samuel is sleeping, and he answers “Here I am,” thinking that it is Eli. Yes, we are singing both God’s words and our own reply; this is easily determined by the context of the verses and the refrain. The lyrics do not work out of the context of the Bible or in a literal sense. There are several places in which our relationship with God and His Kingdom is represented as a feast.

I am not asking you to like the song; just trying to explain how it has helped me to hear the call of God on my life.

Ellen

 

[pnewton]

Please be tolerant of your musicians. It is probable that any one parishiner could give them many different and contradictary suggestions on how to improve the music. It is a tough job trying to please everyone. The guidelines provided by the church still allow for a wide range of personal preference, including guitar (not yet declared anathema) How wonderful it would be if everone who didn’t like this song or that song would volunteer to help by singing in the choir, or at least singing in the pew. Even tcaseyrochester’s croaking frog voices would be welcome in my parish. Ribbit

 

[system]

yochumjy:

Our church has no organ, so that isn’t an option. We almost always have at least one guitar and the piano, and when it is done tastefully there is no issue of “rock concerts”. We also have a congregation that is very vocal, which I find much more appealing than a beautiful organ and one singer with the congregation silent or barely joining in.

John

What I think I am hearing from many of the comments is that the only acceptable music during Mass is organ music.

I have experienced Mass in Africa. What about Mass in Africa where they use the traditional instruments of their culture such as drums and they wear their traditional dress. Are they wrong not having organ music.

What about Mass in Mexico where guitars are used and traditional Mexican dress is worn. Are they wrong for not having organ music?

What about the music in some of the Eastern Rites of the Church who use various traditional instruments of their culture. Are the wrong not to have organ music?

I think there’s room for all traditions of music in the Church. That’s what Catholic means!

Blesssings and Peace,
DigitalDeacon

 

[WhiteDove]

Deacon!

 

[Beverly]

Disillusioned:

Quick Question:What tells you directly that “Here am I Lord” has anything to do with Samuel ? Wouldn’t it be a far better hymn if it did not merge God with the person being addressed ? (That’s my paranoia) Same pronouns used of both God and the person talking back in the refrain.

The poetry is unpleasant word association “I the Lord of wind and flame/ I will tend the poor and lame” Then loose idea, start taking about a feast …This is pantheistic as is the first line “I the Lord of sea and sky” In Christianity God is not identified with His creation.This song muddles the distinction almost beyond repair.

.

I immediately caught the reference to Samuel the first time I ever heard it - it is as plain as the nose on your face. I personally like the God speaking and His people answering “Here I am - send me”. And in pantheism, God would not be *the Lord of * wind, flame, sea, and sky. He would just BE wind, flame, sea, and sky. It is certainly correct to say he is Lord of these things. Just because you personally do not like a song does not automatically make it a bad song.

P.S. If it is true what you said about the man who wrote it leaving the priesthood, that is very sad. But it still does not mean that it was not inspired at the time he wrote it. Just because he sinned (as we all do), it does not negate every good thing he ever did as a priest - the babies he baptized are still baptized, the couples who were married before him remain married, etc.

 

[bquinnan]

pnewton:

Please be tolerant of your musicians. It is probable that any one parishiner could give them many different and contradictary suggestions on how to improve the music. It is a tough job trying to please everyone. The guidelines provided by the church still allow for a wide range of personal preference, including guitar (not yet declared anathema) How wonderful it would be if everone who didn’t like this song or that song would volunteer to help by singing in the choir, or at least singing in the pew. Even tcaseyrochester’s croaking frog voices would be welcome in my parish. Ribbit

I’ve considered this – I can carry a tune, anyway. But I really don’t want to participate in the liberties that the priest and choir take in the rubrics, or do I want to sing songs that I believe miss the mark. I’m not sure how well it will go over if I joined with all sorts of strings attached. I’m not that good of a singer.

 

[dcs]

DigitalDeacon:

I have experienced Mass in Africa. What about Mass in Africa where they use the traditional instruments of their culture such as drums and they wear their traditional dress. Are they wrong not having organ music.

No, but they are wrong to substitute drums.

What about Mass in Mexico where guitars are used and traditional Mexican dress is worn. Are they wrong for not having organ music?

No, but they are wrong to use guitars.

What about the music in some of the Eastern Rites of the Church who use various traditional instruments of their culture. Are the wrong not to have organ music?

The Eastern Rites largely restrict instruments to the male voice! But we’re not talking about the Eastern Rites here, we’re talking about the Roman Rite and what is appropriate for it.

Bringing up traditional dress is a non sequiter, the thread is about music. Read the writings of the Popes such as Pius X and Pius XII on sacred music. For that matter, read Sacrosanctum Concilium and see what it recommends as musical accompaniment for Mass (hint: it’s not guitars and drums, but plainchant and the pipe organ).

I have read that Africans in particular sing the chants of the Mass beautifully.

 

[pnewton]

dcs:

No, but they are wrong to use guitars.

Wrong??? I don’t think any church document has used this word for the guitar. Do you consider it a venial or mortal sin?

 

[dcs]

pnewton:

Wrong??? I don’t think any church document has used this word for the guitar. Do you consider it a venial or mortal sin?

ewtn.com/library/ENCYC/P12MUSIC.HTM

1. Besides the organ, other instruments can be called upon to give great help in attaining the lofty purpose of sacred music, so long as they play nothing profane, nothing clamorous or strident, and nothing at variance with the sacred services or the dignity of the place. Among these the violin and other musical instruments that use the bow are outstanding because, when they are played by themselves or with other stringed instruments or with the organ, they express the joyous and sad sentiments of the soul with an indescribable power. Moreover, in the encyclical Mediator Dei, We Ourselves gave detailed and clear regulations concerning the musical modes that are to be admitted into the worship of the Catholic religion.

1. “For, if they are not profane or unbecoming to the sacredness of the place and function and do not spring from a desire to achieve extraordinary and unusual effects, then our churches must admit them, since they can contribute in no small way to the splendor of the sacred ceremonies, can lift the mind to higher things, and can foster true devotion of the soul.”

I think the guitar qualifies as a “profane” instrument.

 

[WhiteDove]

You are saying a guitar is a profane instrument? I beg to differ. I own two beautiful Taylor guitars, one a six-stringed and one a twelve string. These are very fine, high quality instruments, and nobody would ever say that I play them in a profane manner.

Yes, Kurt Cobain plays the guitar in a profane manner, but to say that the guitar is a profane instrument is an incorrect description.