"Praise and Worship" taking place in presence of the Blessed Sacrament

[PatriceA]

I wouldn’t call someone who likes the traditional Mass once in a while a “traditionalist,” but I’m sure there are many Catholics like the ones you describe. I’d be interested to meet one.

Well it really doesn’t matter what YOU would call them. They consider themselves traditonalists and that’s all that matters. I hate labels myself and Thank God the church is as diverse as it is so that people can find a variety of styles to live out their faith and not be “labeled” to practice one and only one way.

 

[TrueLight]

For your information, Fish-Eaters are now ***charging money ***for posting there. Some of us can’t afford to make a donation every time we post, OK?:dts:

For real? That’s crazy.

 

[pnewton]

Why must everyone attack me? You ask for me to treat others with charity, how about the same from you guys? I’m disappointed if this is the current line of thought of “Traditional” Catholics, that there is nothing wrong with ignoring the Blessed Sacrament and that things such as healing Masses where people are “slain in the spirit” are pretend to speak in tongues are acceptable practices. I posted in this particular forum because I thought there would be people who would understand my concerns instead of the usual Modernist Catholics that fill our Church these days. I guess I was wrong…

The Catholics here are extremely orthodox. They are not modernist catholics, although I think you are really mistaken that modernist Catholics fill the Church.* Modern* Catholics may fill the Churches, but not modernists. As to Charismatic Catholics, they too are a minority, like Traditionalist Catholics, Neocatechetical Way Catholics, LifeTeen Catholics, etc.

The Catholic Church in its evangelism allows a myriad of spiritualities. If the Catholic Church accepts this, we should be willing. I have always maintained that you have a valid point for practical reasons. Eucharistic Adoration is one of our greatest spiritual devotions. It should be provided for as a priority. But please do not let an administative issue cause you to miss the greater mission of the Church to* all* people. Might I suggest that you reflect on the admonition of St. Paul in Philipians 2, that greater descriptions of the humility of Christ:

Do nothing out of selfish ambition or vain conceit. Rather, in humility value others above yourselves, 4 not looking to your own interests but each of you to the interests of the others.

Pray for these people. Value their interests ahead of your own. I know this is tough in practice for all of us. I do think that you were met with more criticism than understanding. That should not have been.

 

[pnewton]

I see this as outreach territory. If you want to commune with like-minded folks, why not check out Fish Eaters Forum?

FYI, This forum is extremely orthodox and faithfully Catholic. I do not know what you mean by outreach, but any sort of proselytizing is strictly forbidden.

You are right this is not a place for like-minded folks. It is catholic in the literal sense of the word, as well as Catholic in the truest sense.

 

[englishredrose]

It may be tactful of the group to turn the silence in chapel notice around if they are clearly not being silent. Or cover a notice over it for that time of the service inviting people to come to a praise and worship service for this time. When they have finished they could turn the sign back around so others know that silence is for those who want it.

We are all different and worship God in ways we find comfortable within Catholic teachings. It seems that the opening poster is more upset about the sign and the group being contradictory to the sign. So would it be a compromise that the group leader apologised to the opening poster, a simple apology because they hadn’t meant to offend but in future advertise their service at the time it is on so that other people know that if they want/need a silent time in front of God they know where they can find that space.

peace be with you

 

[LaMusicaSenior]

When I go to Catholic Youth Confrences (NCYC, Stubenville) we have a great emphasis on the Blessed Sacrament, Adoration, and Benediction.

There is praise and worship during Adoration. We are singing, praying, and there is also a chapel set aside for silent adoration.

But I must say that this kind of Eucharistic Adoration ( incorperating praise and worship ) is usally the best adoration I have all year.

If you said the words to the praise and worship song, they are a prayer. By adding music to a prayer, you don’t take away the prayfullness of the words.

When you pray, you sing twice

 

[clem456]

Hamburglar, I couldn’t empathize more, but when others say that the Church allows these things, they’re right. We can feel these things aren’t quite right all we want but what can we say? Any complaint comes off as a personal attack, and I know that’s not how you wanted to be perceived. We have to find peace where we can and ignore the rest.

There are few traditionalists on these boards. I see this as outreach territory. If you want to commune with like-minded folks, why not check out Fish Eaters Forum?

That is not really true. There are many.
What there are few of, is those who believe they own tradition somehow by narrowing it to an exclusive cultural context which is more about the outward trappings of religion than spirituality. Thankfully only a few.

 

[Rich_C]

Well it really doesn’t matter what YOU would call them. They consider themselves traditonalists and that’s all that matters. I hate labels myself and Thank God the church is as diverse as it is so that people can find a variety of styles to live out their faith and not be “labeled” to practice one and only one way.

Words are only useful if they have a generally understood meaning, which in this case your friends do not fit. Even so, it doesn’t bother me one bit if they want to be called “traditionalists.” I’m completely ambivelant.

It does bother me that you’re upset about this, however.

 

[Rich_C]

---

FYI, This forum is extremely orthodox and faithfully Catholic. I do not know what you mean by outreach, but any sort of proselytizing is strictly forbidden.

You are right this is not a place for like-minded folks. It is catholic in the literal sense of the word, as well as Catholic in the truest sense.

I meant I think of CAF as a place to meet people who are curious about the traditional Mass and traditional Catholic worldview. I didn’t mean I’m here to “school” anybody. I’m a working man without enough time to read theology, etc even if God wanted me to, but I have different experiences I like to share. From one Catholic to another, that isn’t proselytizing.

 

[pnewton]

I meant I think of CAF as a place to meet people who are curious about the traditional Mass and traditional Catholic worldview. I didn’t mean I’m here to “school” anybody. I’m a working man without enough time to read theology, etc even if God wanted me to, but I have different experiences I like to share. From one Catholic to another, that isn’t proselytizing.

Thank you for clarifying. “Outreach” is a protestant code word for evangelism. The old Baptist in me read it that way.

 

[MarkThompson]

I’m disappointed if this is the current line of thought of “Traditional” Catholics, that there is nothing wrong with ignoring the Blessed Sacrament and that things such as healing Masses where people are “slain in the spirit” are pretend to speak in tongues are acceptable practices.

Perhaps this is your mistake: thinking that, because the Blessed Sacrament is present in a chapel, anything going on there must be a form of adoration directed toward the Blessed Sacrament, and that anything that fails to focus on the Blessed Sacrament is “ignoring” the Lord (thereby cuing a half-hour cry session over such “disrespect”). Yet I wonder if you would feel the same way if you walked in and saw a group of people praying the Rosary (as I frequently do at parishes to which even you might concede the title “traditional”). The Rosary is, after all, not liturgical, not an act of adoration, and it has no particular focus whatsoever on the Sacrament. (Well, admittedly one of the Luminous Mysteries is The Institution of the Eucharist, but you probably wouldn’t approve of the Luminous Mysteries, would you.)

The truth is, the mere presence of the reserved Sacrament in a church or chapel does not perforce imply that all activity in the vicinity must be focused on it. Certainly one would not do gymnastics or play Monopoly in such a place, but to make the leap to saying that singing songs of religious worship is a form of disrespect simply doesn’t follow. If praying or lighting a candle to a saint is something you can do in a place where the Blessed Sacrament is kept – which it is, of course, even though it implies “ignoring” Jesus in the Sacrament – then it is hard to see why praying to God through song there should meet the vehement disapproval you show. Oh right, the all-important sign. As though, if they were to schedule a Solemn High Mass in this chapel, you would go to the priest and say, “But Father, the sign! There can’t be any singing!”

 

[acarlson]

How is having “praise and worship” in front of the Blessed Sacrament is a disrespect?

Singing songs about Jesus in His Real Presence? BLASPHEMY!

I attend a monthly Vigil Praise event with “Praise and Worship” songs that we sing in front of the Blessed Sacrament, and this takes place at a Seminary and is often led by the Archbishop/Auxiliary Bishop!

Though, from what the OP said, it seems as if the students were gathered around the musician(s) and not Christ, whereas it would be more appropriate to have the students focused on Christ with the musicians over to one side out of sight. That’s the only issue that I could see with the set-up.

 

[Mike30]

To be fair, praise and worship services are nothing more than part of the general charismatic renewal movement. Like it or not they are probably here to stay. As for discussions of this sort they only have the effect of causing dissension, arguments and usually end up very badly. In fact, my own personal belief is that a great many threads of this particular nature are plants designed with just such an outcome in mind. Not saything this one is, but I would dare say that many are.

Getting along though, I would say that those in favor of such charismatic practices guard them jealously and will accept no criticism of them even in the mildest degree. They see them as some of the brightest new lights of the faith and honestly cannot understand why anyone would be opposed to them in any way.

Those who are not in favor of such practices in large degree see no merit in them from a Catholic viewpoint and see the whole thing as being inspired by protestant methods and mindsets intent upon subverting the Church and its traditions at best and outright blasphemy and heresy at the worst…

It is with good reason indeed that such topics have been banned from discussion on several of the forums here.

 

[LilyM]

If the Pope were to say “no liturgical dance is allowed” and then had people dancing around during his Masses, maybe that would be similar. Campus Ministry has explicitly stated not to do something, and then contradicted themselves by authorizing them to use the chapel (I’m not even sure at this point if the group was authorized by Campus Ministry).

If they are allowed to close off the chapel and sing, why can’t I close off the chapel and practice gymnastics? Maybe you just don’t appreciate various forms of worship. Why is my gymnastics any less authentic than your praise and worship?

It wouldn’t be similar at all. Not only does the Church NOT disallow Praise and Worship music (unlike liturgical dance, which would pretty much include gymnastics), numerous parishes will either occasionally or regularly hold similar events - in their churches, in front of the Blessed Sacrament - to the one you have described, on a larger scale. So the Church in fact frequently allows and permits such.

It is, as someone said earlier, akin to protesting that people were receiving in the hand or standing.

As for the pews - for many centuries churches didn’t have them. Many orthodox churches still don’t, although they usually have some chairs available for the frail and elderly. Pews certainly aren’t any sort of requirement.

 

[pnewton]

I do not think this problem arose over dislike of praise and worship music. That might have been part of it, but the core is that it occured during what was supposed to be, at least in the mind of the OP, a time of contemplation before the Blessed Sacrament. This is reinforced by the sign and the posted hours for Adoration. I would have been upset too, though I like Praise and Worship music at times. This is simply an argument that need not exist, a false dichotomy between two legitimate devotions that can not be simultaneous. It is an administrative issue only. It is not always easy to be charitable with someone’s short-comings, in this case scheduling two contradictory devotions in the same time and place.

Let’s say we wanted to go watch a movie, a serious romance or drama, and when we arrived we found everyone dressed in costumes and it was heckle night where everyone was supposed to joke and party through the course of the movie, we too might be miffed at the theatre for not making this known.

 

[mlz]

As a new convert I’m still on a learning curve for what is or isn’t acceptable in different situations so I can’t say I know what is possible. I can only say this from someone who has been a part of a beautiful prayer group that uses praise and worship this: I believe that in heaven the angels and saints are singing and praising our Lord, that praise and worship are very much a part of what probably takes place in the presence of the Lord, that perhaps it may not be all that quite although at time it may be. I can’t remember the verse but somewhere in I think Isiah a verse say something to this effect, “I see the Lord, He is High and Lifted up and His train fills the temple, He is High and Lifted up and His train fills the temple, the Angels cry Holy, the Angels cry Holy, the Angels cry Holy is the Lord.” The music must be glorious, as I think of the Halleluiah choir! At any rate to me it doesn’t have to be irreverent and could possibly be pleasing to our Lord although perhaps not as typical to some. Just a thought.

Blessings to you!
Your sister in Christ,
mlz

 

[LilyM]

I do not think this problem arose over dislike of praise and worship music. That might have been part of it, but the core is that it occured during what was supposed to be, at least in the mind of the OP, a time of contemplation before the Blessed Sacrament. This is reinforced by the sign and the posted hours for Adoration. I would have been upset too, though I like Praise and Worship music at times. This is simply an argument that need not exist, a false dichotomy between two legitimate devotions that can not be simultaneous. It is an administrative issue only. It is not always easy to be charitable with someone’s short-comings, in this case scheduling two contradictory devotions in the same time and place.

Let’s say we wanted to go watch a movie, a serious romance or drama, and when we arrived we found everyone dressed in costumes and it was heckle night where everyone was supposed to joke and party through the course of the movie, we too might be miffed at the theatre for not making this known.

Who says they didn’t make it known? Just because there isn’t a sign posted directly outside the chapel door doesn’t mean they didn’t make it known.

When my church occasionally schedules an extra Mass on a special occasion, or has a Mass at the local school rather than the church to allow everyone to have a meal together afterward, they put it in the bulletin and perhaps announce it at the previous Sunday’s Mass.

Are some people uninformed as a result? Possibly, but I don’t see that they need to go so far as putting notices on the door, and wouldn’t expect people to complain at the occasional change in plans.

 

[CB_Catholic]

I do not think this problem arose over dislike of praise and worship music. That might have been part of it, but the core is that it occured during what was supposed to be, at least in the mind of the OP, a time of contemplation before the Blessed Sacrament. This is reinforced by the sign and the posted hours for Adoration. I would have been upset too, though I like Praise and Worship music at times. This is simply an argument that need not exist, a false dichotomy between two legitimate devotions that can not be simultaneous. It is an administrative issue only. It is not always easy to be charitable with someone’s short-comings, in this case scheduling two contradictory devotions in the same time and place.

Let’s say we wanted to go watch a movie, a serious romance or drama, and when we arrived we found everyone dressed in costumes and it was heckle night where everyone was supposed to joke and party through the course of the movie, we too might be miffed at the theatre for not making this known.

It is not unusual at all for there to be scheduled prayer activities during times of Eucharistic Exposition and Adoration. Different groups do different things, and things are not always announced. In my parish they may pray a Divine Mercy Chaplet or a Rosary or a Novena. i’ve been to churches, expecting a quiet time in front of the Blessed Sacrament, only to find a group of people gathered to pray various devotions out loud. People sing, too, and yes, there were signs posted for quiet. Those signs are generally posted for people who are not participating in the Adoration, outside of the chapel or church.

I can understand the OP being disappointed, but, contrary to what you have posted, he was in reality very harsh and judgmental towards these people, and it also offended people on this forum who choose to worship in a legitimate style different than his. The people who were praising God and worshipping in front of the Blessed Sacrament have as much right to be there as he does, do not deserve his unjust criticism, and if they prearranged a time, it is perfectly fine. It is done all the time. He’s just going to have to learn that we can’t always have what we want, sometimes we have to accomodate others, and his way is not the only way. I am sorry, but his reaction is a very juvenile one, and part of growing up and becoming an adult is to learn to roll with the punches, respect others, and perhaps not be so quick to judge.

Perhaps he could make an effort to get to know some young people in this group, rather than criticize them. He might be in for a pleasant surprise.

 

[pnewton]

Who says they didn’t make it known? Just because there isn’t a sign posted directly outside the chapel door doesn’t mean they didn’t make it known.

It was not made known to the OP, which is why he reacted like he did. If it was made know through some other means that was reasonable, then of course that would have been reasonable. Even then, I would think such a thing should be posted at that location for those who were not informed.

 

[pnewton]

It is not unusual at all for there to be scheduled prayer activities during times of Eucharistic Exposition and Adoration. Different groups do different things, and things are not always announced. In my parish they may pray a Divine Mercy Chaplet or a Rosary or a Novena. i’ve been to churches, expecting a quiet time in front of the Blessed Sacrament, only to find a group of people gathered to pray various devotions out loud. People sing, too, and yes, there were signs posted for quiet. Those signs are generally posted for people who are not participating in the Adoration, outside of the chapel or church.

If that is the case, it ought not be so. Those who wish consideration for singing and praise should be equally willing to give this consideration for those who wish silent contemplation.

I think the fruit of this sort of activity without restraint speaks for itself. It results in division, not unity. Prayer should never be a matter of the bullying of the loudest group. If a parish or organization is to offer Eucharistic Adoration, it is reasonable that they actually offer it when they say and not assign other activities during the this time of adoration. All this can be avoided by simple planning and communitcation.