Praise Music Sounding Secular

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Actually, Pope John Paul II, in his later years, had lots to say about the quality and lack thereof, of the music used for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. To say that he did not seem to have a problem with any of it is to not have read what he wrote in his Chirograph on Sacred Music:
  1. In continuity with the teachings of St Pius X and the Second Vatican Council, it is necessary first of all to emphasize that music destined for sacred rites must have holiness as its reference point: indeed, “sacred music increases in holiness to the degree that it is intimately linked with liturgical action”[11]. For this very reason, “not all without distinction that is outside the temple (profanum) is fit to cross its threshold”, my venerable Predecessor Paul VI wisely said, commenting on a Decree of the Council of Trent[12]. And he explained that “if music - instrumental and vocal - does not possess at the same time the sense of prayer, dignity and beauty, it precludes the entry into the sphere of the sacred and the religious”[13]. Today, moreover, the meaning of the category “sacred music” has been broadened to include repertoires that cannot be part of the celebration without violating the spirit and norms of the Liturgy itself.
St Pius X’s reform aimed specifically at purifying Church music from the contamination of profane theatrical music that in many countries had polluted the repertoire and musical praxis of the Liturgy. In our day too, careful thought, as I emphasized in the Encyclical Ecclesia de Eucharistia, should be given to the fact that not all the expressions of figurative art or of music are able “to express adequately the mystery grasped in the fullness of the Church’s faith”[14]. Consequently, not all forms of music can be considered suitable for liturgical celebrations.
Therefore, then, music in the Mass is not necessarily a free for all sort of thing.
 
And, my response is based on the Instrumentum Laboris, the document that the Fathers of the 2005 Synod on the Eucharist used:

“A few responses made particular mention of music and singing at Youth Masses. In this regard, it is important to avoid musical forms which, because of their profane use, are not conducive to prayer.”

And these comments came from bishops, mind you.
And it still comes down to a judgment call. This judgment call still relies on the bishop/priest/liturgist to determine whether the music is conducive to prayer, sacred or profane.

As far as I can tell, praise and worship is a specifically sacred form of music, designed for use in liturgy. Frankly, if Gospel music is acceptable in the Mass, then so is P&W. It is distinct from rock/alternative/folk/etc.
 
Actually, Pope John Paul II, in his later years, had lots to say about the quality and lack thereof, of the music used for the Holy Sacrifice of the Mass. To say that he did not seem to have a problem with any of it is to not have read what he wrote in his Chirograph on Sacred Music:

Therefore, then, music in the Mass is not necessarily a free for all sort of thing.
But…there is no specific condemnation of any music. You’re assuming the Holy Father was talking about “rock” music–what if he was talking about Wagner?!

I grew up with Christian rock–to me and to many others, it has a “sense of prayer” and is dignified, beautiful, sacred, and very reverent.

It’s all OPINION. Yes, the Pope doesn’t agree with me, but he didn’t grow up on it, so all he’s ever known is secular rock music, so of course it sounds bad to him. I think chant with no regular melody sounds icky and random and hopeless. I don’t think it sounds reverent at all, but that’s just my opinion, and I’m open to listen to those who disagree with me. Yes, I know, the Church says it should have a place of honor in the Mass, and that’s fine–I have to learn to tolerate it and hopefully like it some day.

OPINION! No specifics. Just general guidelines in the documents and depending on who is interpreting them, the specifics will vary.

Even if the Pope speaks out against rock music, WHICH rock music is he referring to? There is a huge difference between the music of Twila Paris or Petra (geezer rock–sorry, I’m lost in the 80s when it comes to Christian rock!) and Marilyn Manson. To just condemn ROCK as inappropriate for Mass is as bad as affirming that all classical music is appropriate for Mass–no, it isn’t! The 1812 Overture or the Nutcracker Suite would have no place in Mass, at least, IMO. Again, I’m open to those who disagree.

I think that until the Church speaks specifically, we can’t.

If you are a Music Director in a parish, you and the priest should follow the specifics that the bishop decrees to the best of your ability. That’s submission to the Church, and it’s the right thing to do, regardless of your own opinion.
 
But…there is no specific condemnation of any music. You’re assuming the Holy Father was talking about “rock” music–what if he was talking about Wagner?!
Although he probably wasn’t talking about Wagner, he could most likely lump his music in with it since most of Wagner’s music is secular in general and most of it you couldn’t do in a mass setting since it requires a lot of instrumentation and huge wagnerian singers to sing over the brass and the orchestra size, if it calls for voices
Even if the Pope speaks out against rock music, WHICH rock music is he referring to? There is a huge difference between the music of Twila Paris or Petra (geezer rock–sorry, I’m lost in the 80s when it comes to Christian rock!) and Marilyn Manson. **To just condemn ROCK as inappropriate for Mass is as bad as affirming that all classical music is appropriate for Mass–no, it isn’t! ** The 1812 Overture or the Nutcracker Suite would have no place in Mass, at least, IMO. Again, I’m open to those who disagree.
And actually, the Church has been more specific about that in regards to classical music before rock music was even around. It got out of hand in the late 19th/early 20th century which was being produced. Also, the 1812 Overture and the Nutcracker Suite would not be appropriate just because they are secular works in general - not absolute instrumental music since one is supposed to evoke Russian’s defense against Napoleon and the other is a ballet. A better comparison would be Verdi’s “Requiem” and Gounod’s “O Divine Redeemer”. The Requiem was first used for liturgy and has since been considered inappropriate for mass. “O Divine Redeemer” is a beautiful “religious” piece but not considered truly sacred. Both have too operatic qualities, which really cannot be refined enough, which you can see in these renditions. Perfect for religious concerts, but not for mass.

Excerpt from Verdi’s Requiem with Pavarotti
youtube.com/watch?v=Dzx5JM6fW7A

O Divine Redeemer with Reneta Tebaldi
youtube.com/watch?v=KjCtPEe_f0o&feature=related

The classical music that has been permitted had to be refined in regards to how it is written and mostly in how it is “performed” or “rendered” and I think that is a term that people are forgetting or ignoring when it comes to composing sacred music. Religious music can be different from sacred music. There is a lot of religious repertoire out there from various centuries which isn’t necessarily appropriate for mass.

Rock music is still fairly new, so that may be why there hasn’t been enough specifics regarding it.
I think that until the Church speaks specifically, we can’t.
Yes and no. I would agree that the Church should be more direct and specific which hasn’t been for a couple of decades in regards to music. Popes such as JPII and Benedict have tried to clarify it more, but because of the freedoms that had been given over recent history, people still tend to be confused and want to have an open opinion on it. I look at how the Popes view all forms of rock (which I also realize there are different styles - I still listen to rock music even though I’m a classical musician) in terms of how the Popes centuries ago viewed all polyphonic styles of music - it was all secular-sounding and not appropriate for mass. And it was not permitted until a composer refined it and set the standard. Until a writer of rock or a composer can prove himself/herself by refining this style - praise music, for instance - there will still be this controversy. The only difference between the Popes then and the Popes today is that the ones today haven’t officially banned it. It’s just not how things seem to be done today.
If you are a Music Director in a parish, you and the priest should follow the specifics that the bishop decrees to the best of your ability. That’s submission to the Church, and it’s the right thing to do, regardless of your own opinion.
True… but again, you still get a lot of people who will fight their bishop or director of worship tooth and nail about this.

As was discussed in another thread, I think what would be best to help end this kind of controversy is for the Church to really get a good group of true experts on a board for liturgy and music, go through all the music and styles past and present and determine through their expertise and through prayer what is not appropriate. It can be specific styles, hymns, instrumentation, etc. You need true, well-trained musicians and true, well-trained scholars with proven ability, intellect, experience, etc. And you’ve got to keep people from both ends of the spectrum away from them to ensure that their findings are unbiased. I’m fairly certain if it is unbiased, you will get specific compositions from all genres deemed inappropriate - and there will most likely be specific styles totally deemed inappropriate until someone with good enough ability is able to refine the style. OR what they could deem is that a certain song, which may sound too secular if played or sung a certain way will need to be revamped in a way so that it sounds more sacred in their estimation. It could end up changing the style, but the melody and the words would still be there.
 
Yes and no. I would agree that the Church should be more direct and specific which hasn’t been for a couple of decades in regards to music. Popes such as JPII and Benedict have tried to clarify it more, but because of the freedoms that had been given over recent history, people still tend to be confused and want to have an open opinion on it. I look at how the Popes view all forms of rock (which I also realize there are different styles - I still listen to rock music even though I’m a classical musician) in terms of how the Popes centuries ago viewed all polyphonic styles of music - it was all secular-sounding and not appropriate for mass. And it was not permitted until a composer refined it and set the standard. Until a writer of rock or a composer can prove himself/herself by refining this style - praise music, for instance - there will still be this controversy. The only difference between the Popes then and the Popes today is that the ones today haven’t officially banned it. It’s just not how things seem to be done today.
I would tend to argue that this refinement is already happening in the distinction between P&W and rock in general. There seems to be some gray area/crossover, but even works by the same artist (Third Day seems to come to mind most poignantly) show distinction between songs intended for worship and songs intended for general listening.
As was discussed in another thread, I think what would be best to help end this kind of controversy is for the Church to really get a good group of true experts on a board for liturgy and music, go through all the music and styles past and present and determine through their expertise and through prayer what is not appropriate. It can be specific styles, hymns, instrumentation, etc. You need true, well-trained musicians and true, well-trained scholars with proven ability, intellect, experience, etc. And you’ve got to keep people from both ends of the spectrum away from them to ensure that their findings are unbiased. I’m fairly certain if it is unbiased, you will get specific compositions from all genres deemed inappropriate - and there will most likely be specific styles totally deemed inappropriate until someone with good enough ability is able to refine the style. OR what they could deem is that a certain song, which may sound too secular if played or sung a certain way will need to be revamped in a way so that it sounds more sacred in their estimation. It could end up changing the style, but the melody and the words would still be there.
I think something specific as above is the only thing that would really define it clearly. Until something like that DOES happen, there’s plenty of room for interpretation within the established guidelines.
 
I would tend to argue that this refinement is already happening in the distinction between P&W and rock in general. There seems to be some gray area/crossover, but even works by the same artist (Third Day seems to come to mind most poignantly) show distinction between songs intended for worship and songs intended for general listening.
That may be the case as the places where I attend mass or work as a freelance musician do not include Praise music, so what I have heard with praise music still does not seem refined at least to my ears as a musician. But as it seems to be at the moment, if the music writers continue to work on their refinement it may eventually be recognized by the current pope and subsequent popes. As it stands now, it doesn’t appear to have been recognized yet by this Pope.
I think something specific as above is the only thing that would really define it clearly. Until something like that DOES happen, there’s plenty of room for interpretation within the established guidelines.
Yes, and it is something serious liturgical musicians have been wanting since Vat II - getting rid of the ambiguity and vagueness. It has caused a lot of turmoil in the sacred music world and too much freedom of interpretation to the point in recent history where almost all very consummate classical musicians were pushed out of their jobs in Catholic Churches for guitar strummers - not even real, trained guitarrists.
 
Our current Pontiff (when he was still a lowly Cardinal :p) wrote:

Not every kind of music can have a place in Christian worship. It has its standards, and that standard is the Logos. If we want to know whom we are dealing with, the Holy Spirit or the unholy spirit, we have to remember that it is the Holy Spirit who moves us to say, “Jesus is Lord” (1 Cor 12:3). The Holy Spirit leads us to the Logos, and he leads us to a music that serves the Logos as a sign of the sursum corda, the lifting up of the human heart. Does it integrate man by drawing him to what is above, or does it cause his disintegration into formless intoxication or mere sensuality? That is the criterion for a music in harmony with logos, a form of that logike latreia (reason-able, logos-worthy worship) of which we spoke in the first part of this book.

- Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger (Pope Benedict XVI) (The Spirit of the Liturgy, p.151)​
 
Here is the former Joseph Cardinal Rartzinger’s take on music, from The Spirit of the Liturgy:
On the one hand, there is pop music, which is certainly no longer supported by the people in the ancient sense (populus). It is aimed at the phenomenon of the masses, is industrially produced, and ultimately has to be described as a cult of the banal. “Rock”, on the other hand, is the expression of elemental passions, and at rock festivals it assumes a cultic character, a form of worship, in fact, in opposition to Christian worship. People are, so to speak, released from themselves by the emotional shock of rhythm, noise, and special lighting effects. However, in the ecstasy of having all their defenses torn down, the participants sink, as it were, beneath the elemental force of the universe. The music of the Holy Spirit’s sober inebriation seems to have little chance when self has become a prison, the mind is a shackle, and breaking out from both appears as a true promise of redemption that can be tasted at least for a few moments.
I think that this is pretty straight-foward. Evidently, his line of thinking has not changed since becoming Pope Benedict XVI. Please note what he wrote in Sacramentum Caritatis:
Liturgical song
  1. In the ars celebrandi, liturgical song has a pre-eminent place. (126) Saint Augustine rightly says in a famous sermon that “the new man sings a new song. Singing is an expression of joy and, if we consider the matter, an expression of love” (127). The People of God assembled for the liturgy sings the praises of God. In the course of her two-thousand-year history, the Church has created, and still creates, music and songs which represent a rich patrimony of faith and love. This heritage must not be lost. Certainly as far as the liturgy is concerned, we cannot say that one song is as good as another. Generic improvisation or the introduction of musical genres which fail to respect the meaning of the liturgy should be avoided. As an element of the liturgy, song should be well integrated into the overall celebration (128). Consequently everything – texts, music, execution – ought to correspond to the meaning of the mystery being celebrated, the structure of the rite and the liturgical seasons (129). Finally, while respecting various styles and different and highly praiseworthy traditions, I desire, in accordance with the request advanced by the Synod Fathers, that Gregorian chant be suitably esteemed and employed (130) as the chant proper to the Roman liturgy (131).
Sacramentum Caritatis is not mere personal opinion, as some would characterize the document to be. Here, he is speaking as Pope and he is making his Apostolic Exhortations known. It’s up to us (and this includes composers and publishing houses) to read his words and heed them.
 
Interesting article (spot on, too):

Trendy liturgists have made Catholic parish music a ‘laughing stock’, James MacMillan tells new Archbishop of Westminster

James MacMillan, Britain’s finest living Catholic composer, has told Archbishop Vincent Nichols that liturgical activists have made new Catholic congregational music “a laughing stock” in recent decades. “The faithful are fed up with sloppy practice, inappropriate, terrible music and the gradual drift away from Catholic standards in the liturgy,” he says.
 
I listen to CCM (Contemporary Christian Music ) because I’m a musician and music is how I express myself and how I pick myself up after a bad day and I don’t want to be listening to non Christian music because it really sends a bad message that I don’t believe and don’t want to here. I also use CCM to pray because as Saint Augustine said, those who sing pray twice.
Music in of it’s self can be bad, because God doesn’t create anything bad. I think the way some people use God’s gift of music is wrong but you could argue that any gift God gives could be used in the wrong way. I’m just going to say that I greatly admire men like Chris Tomlin and Tom Booth, because it can’t be easy to live a Christian life in the music world and I greatly admire how they use the gifts that God has given them to give Christian teens a way to be in the world but not of it.
That’s just listening to it in my room, or when I’m making lunch or whatever. If you are talking about in the Mass, I do not believe CCM has any place in the Mass, I don’t find it very reverent in the Mass. I think it’s more easy to pray the Mass when there’s chant in the background. But I don’t have any problem, as I said above, with listening to it at home or in the car or whatever.

JMJ+
~Betsy

Totus tuus Maria!
 
Rock music is sex music. “Rockin’ and rollin’” is a euphemism for intercourse. Between that and folk music (sickly sentiment), I think Gregorian Chant should be the default at every Mass.

Sing the ancient prayers of the Church, in Latin, and leave the World behind. Add in the thrilling bass notes of the organ and you are transported higher still.

Raise people to a higher level instead of dumbing down to the lowest common denominator.
 
BTW, we also need to draw a firm distinction (as the Church does) between liturgical music and religious music in general.
Exactly! We have a new “music director” in our little mountain parish. He is placed himself right up by the altar with his huge speakers and his synthesiszer. His music is so different from normal Catholic liturgical music, that people are confused as to when they should kneel, or stand. I feel like I am attending a Presbyterian or Baptist service. The music is so loud, the benches vibrate when he plays. Last week, there was a pair of bongos up near the altar! Bongos! In Catholic liturgical music! When will the liturgical dancers appear? We need to return to a sense of the sacred with our music, we have come to worship, not to attend a concert. Pax Christi
 
Exactly! We have a new “music director” in our little mountain parish. He is placed himself right up by the altar with his huge speakers and his synthesiszer. His music is so different from normal Catholic liturgical music, that people are confused as to when they should kneel, or stand. I feel like I am attending a Presbyterian or Baptist service. The music is so loud, the benches vibrate when he plays. Last week, there was a pair of bongos up near the altar! Bongos! In Catholic liturgical music! When will the liturgical dancers appear? We need to return to a sense of the sacred with our music, we have come to worship, not to attend a concert. Pax Christi
You might want to get him a copy of The Spirit of the Liturgy by Pope Benedict XVI, as well as the authoritative documents of the Church on what constitutes genuine, sacred music. A good, concrete and constructive discussion with your pastor might be in order.
 
I see now, so for example, I love the song Fisher of Men (Lord, You Have Come) and at my parish we sing it with plain old piano, acoustic guitars, a tambourine (sometimes) and voices. At another parish it was sung with, drums, bass, guitar (distorted), tambourine, and voices. It sounded so out of tune, and honestly disturbing and most of the time they sounded louder than the priest. :confused: At my parish people have been asking why we don’t add drums or bass or anything else other than guitars and the piano. And I simply say it’s not permitted and they get bothered and say it will help people come more to church and I tell them I’d rather have people who are serious about church and love simple sung music than distorted music and people coming because the music sounds good.

Where can I get the encyclicals of our Holy Fathers about music in the Holy Mass?

:blessyou:
 
I see now, so for example, I love the song Fisher of Men (Lord, You Have Come) and at my parish we sing it with plain old piano, acoustic guitars, a tambourine (sometimes) and voices. At another parish it was sung with, drums, bass, guitar (distorted), tambourine, and voices. It sounded so out of tune, and honestly disturbing and most of the time they sounded louder than the priest. :confused: At my parish people have been asking why we don’t add drums or bass or anything else other than guitars and the piano. And I simply say it’s not permitted and they get bothered and say it will help people come more to church and I tell them I’d rather have people who are serious about church and love simple sung music than distorted music and people coming because the music sounds good.

Where can I get the encyclicals of our Holy Fathers about music in the Holy Mass?

:blessyou:
Do you think it is likely that the reasons why the drums, bass, and guitar sound out of tune is because the people playing them aren’t skilled? In certain evangelical Protestant churches, especially the megachurches, these instruments are used and they are quite nice to hear–because the people playing them are professional musicians, or at the least, very talented amateurs.

ANY instrument, including the pipe organ, sounds distorted when it is badly played. After the last few months at our parish, I can testify to that! There are times I wish the family that donated the million dollar pipe organ would come forward and say, “LOCK THE ORGAN NOW, please!”

Another very good possibility as to why the various instruments sound “distorted” is that there is no sound tech to modulate the sound. Growing up in the Conference Baptist churches, I always saw a “sound man,” even way back in the early 1960s! We had a sound booth, and the various microphones and instruments (piano and organ, and the occasional violin or trumpet) were hooked up, and the sound man modulated everything so that everyone could hear and nothing sounded too loud or “distorted.”

My husband was the “sound man” in his childhood church.

I’ve NEVER seen a sound man in any Catholic parish I’ve visited. I’ve seen incredibly ancient and inadequate sound systems–most of us have better sound systems on our home stereos!–and an usher will occasionally crank the volume up or turn it down. He usually doesn’t know what any of the other buttons are. But I’ve never seen anyone run the sound throughout the Mass. It would be very helpful, IMO. It’s often difficult for someone who plays an electronic instrument (including the keyboards that are present in so many Catholic parishes instead of pianos or organs) to know how loud or soft they are–that’s another thing I haven’t seen–headphones for the instrumentalists.

I know, some of you are cringing in horror, because you believe that these modern things are devilish. Well, they’re not. They help people to HEAR, and the Bible says that faith comes by hearing the Word of God. In the TLM, it didn’t matter if the people could hear. But in the OF, it matters very much. That’s the whole point of the OF–the active participation of the people in the work of the Mass. If we can’t hear, we may as well go back to the TLM, or at least some of the practices (priest with his back to the peope) that were done in the TLM.

One more comment about drums and guitars–I think that all too often, Catholic buildings were not designed to accomodate this kind of music, so yes, it sounds distorted. Perhaps for this reason, rock music is not an appropriate style for many Catholic churches, unless it is light rock played solely on a piano and perhaps an acoustic guitar.

At the risk of sounding like a temptress luring people away from the True Church, I would suggest that Catholic music directors visit local Protestant churches and observe how they do their music–the physical set-up, the building itself, the balance, the sound system, and the age and talent level of the musicians, how the song leader or praise group “leads” the congregation, and level of participation by the congregation. Yes, you’ll find a lot of “geezer praise groups!” Some of these are very good, others…:o. But in these visits, you’ll learn things that may help you if want to incorporate any contemporary music into the Mass. You don’t have to listen to the Protestant teachings and become all disillusioned by Catholicism! If it’s THAT easy for you to lose your Catholic faith, I’d say your Catholic faith is in trouble! Just go to study the music. TV doesn’t count.
 
Rock music is sex music. “Rockin’ and rollin’” is a euphemism for intercourse.
Ummm…no. It may be such for an immature teen, but the original name came from the dance moves and heavy use of percussion in the new genre used by the early rockers (e.g., Buddy Holly).

Actually, you can take practically any word or phrase and distort it for an immoral euphemism.

Note: this is NOT an endorsement for rock music at Liturgy!!!
 
Rock music is sex music. “Rockin’ and rollin’” is a euphemism for intercourse. Between that and folk music (sickly sentiment), I think Gregorian Chant should be the default at every Mass.
Are you serious?
 
Yup.

Rock music is sex music. First you start dancin’ vertically and then you start dancin’ horizontally. It’s part of the mating rituals of the West. Go to a club, have a few beers, meet a girl, have a dance, then back to her place or yours.

4/4 time isn’t suitable for religious worship. If you try to imagine what the Seraphim might sound like, circling the Throne of the Almighty, Gregorian chant comes to mind. Not “Twist and Shout”.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_roll
Before then, the phrase “rocking and rolling”, as secular black slang for dancing or sex, appeared on record for the first time in 1922 on Trixie Smith’s “My Man Rocks Me With One Steady Roll”. Even earlier, in 1916, the term “rocking and rolling” was used with a religious connotation, on the phonograph record “The Camp Meeting Jubilee” by an unnamed male “quartette”.[17] The word “rock” had a long history in the English language as a metaphor for “to shake up, to disturb or to incite”. In 1937, Chick Webb and Ella Fitzgerald recorded “Rock It for Me,” which included the lyric, “So won’t you satisfy my soul with the rock and roll”. “Rocking” was a term used by black gospel singers in the American South to mean something akin to spiritual rapture.
By the 1940s, however, the term was used as a double entendre, ostensibly referring to dancing, but with the subtextual meaning of sex, as in Roy Brown’s “Good Rocking Tonight”. The verb “roll” was a medieval metaphor which meant “having sex”. Writers for hundreds of years have used the phrases “They had a roll in the hay” or “I rolled her in the clover”[18]. The terms were often used together (“rocking and rolling”) to describe the motion of a ship at sea, for example as used in 1934 by the Boswell Sisters in their song “Rock and Roll”,[19] which was featured in the 1934 film “Transatlantic Merry-Go-Round”,[20][21] and in Buddy Jones’ “Rockin’ Rollin’ Mama” (1939). Country singer Tommy Scott was referring to the motion of a railroad train in the 1951 “Rockin and Rollin’”. [22].
 
Do you think it is likely that the reasons why the drums, bass, and guitar sound out of tune is because the people playing them aren’t skilled? In certain evangelical Protestant churches, especially the megachurches, these instruments are used and they are quite nice to hear–because the people playing them are professional musicians, or at the least, very talented amateurs.

ANY instrument, including the pipe organ, sounds distorted when it is badly played. After the last few months at our parish, I can testify to that! There are times I wish the family that donated the million dollar pipe organ would come forward and say, “LOCK THE ORGAN NOW, please!”

Another very good possibility as to why the various instruments sound “distorted” is that there is no sound tech to modulate the sound. Growing up in the Conference Baptist churches, I always saw a “sound man,” even way back in the early 1960s! We had a sound booth, and the various microphones and instruments (piano and organ, and the occasional violin or trumpet) were hooked up, and the sound man modulated everything so that everyone could hear and nothing sounded too loud or “distorted.”

My husband was the “sound man” in his childhood church.

I’ve NEVER seen a sound man in any Catholic parish I’ve visited. I’ve seen incredibly ancient and inadequate sound systems–most of us have better sound systems on our home stereos!–and an usher will occasionally crank the volume up or turn it down. He usually doesn’t know what any of the other buttons are. But I’ve never seen anyone run the sound throughout the Mass. It would be very helpful, IMO. It’s often difficult for someone who plays an electronic instrument (including the keyboards that are present in so many Catholic parishes instead of pianos or organs) to know how loud or soft they are–that’s another thing I haven’t seen–headphones for the instrumentalists.

I know, some of you are cringing in horror, because you believe that these modern things are devilish. Well, they’re not. They help people to HEAR, and the Bible says that faith comes by hearing the Word of God. In the TLM, it didn’t matter if the people could hear. But in the OF, it matters very much. That’s the whole point of the OF–the active participation of the people in the work of the Mass. If we can’t hear, we may as well go back to the TLM, or at least some of the practices (priest with his back to the peope) that were done in the TLM.

One more comment about drums and guitars–I think that all too often, Catholic buildings were not designed to accomodate this kind of music, so yes, it sounds distorted. Perhaps for this reason, rock music is not an appropriate style for many Catholic churches, unless it is light rock played solely on a piano and perhaps an acoustic guitar.

At the risk of sounding like a temptress luring people away from the True Church, I would suggest that Catholic music directors visit local Protestant churches and observe how they do their music–the physical set-up, the building itself, the balance, the sound system, and the age and talent level of the musicians, how the song leader or praise group “leads” the congregation, and level of participation by the congregation. Yes, you’ll find a lot of “geezer praise groups!” Some of these are very good, others…:o. But in these visits, you’ll learn things that may help you if want to incorporate any contemporary music into the Mass. You don’t have to listen to the Protestant teachings and become all disillusioned by Catholicism! If it’s THAT easy for you to lose your Catholic faith, I’d say your Catholic faith is in trouble! Just go to study the music. TV doesn’t count.
Well as a geezer I will agree. Outside of the P&W music world we are often called that as people down lay our musical contribution as stuck in the 80s. A " bad imitation of U2" is a often heard comment. Most larger churches have full professional teams, including the sound technician. Others get by hiring a in demand instrumentalist, keyboard player; drummer or bass player and sound man before hiring a full band.
 
Yup.

Rock music is sex music.
First you start dancin’ vertically and then you start dancin’ horizontally. It’s part of the mating rituals of the West. Go to a club, have a few beers, meet a girl, have a dance, then back to her place or yours.

4/4 time isn’t suitable for religious worship. If you try to imagine what the Seraphim might sound like, circling the Throne of the Almighty, Gregorian chant comes to mind. Not “Twist and Shout”.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rock_and_roll

Rock music is not bad. Check out Oremus, a good Catholic rock band. You are judging a genre of music by what most of it is and I don’t think that’s right. As I said before, music is a gift from God, yes a lot of music has been distorted by Satan and the world but NOT ALL OF IT!! Forgive me if I’m wrong here, but it seems to me that you are being very judgmental of a genre of music without even knowing enough about it to make a judgment. I just don’t think that’s right, and I’m not saying I know everything about rock, because I don’t, but I think I know enough about rock to say that it’s not ALL bad. I agree that some of it is bad, but not all of it.
Check out this article as well.
I do agree with you that it doesn’t belong in the Mass at all.

JMJ+
~Betsy

Totus tuus Maria!
 
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