Praise & Worship (i.e. contemporary) Mass

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James_2_24

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**What is one to think of Praise & Worship (i.e. contemporary Christian) music played at masses? **

I find this practice bothersome. It seems as if this music has no place in the liturgy or Catholic Tradition, yet many parishes have adopted this style of worship.

Where I am from in particular, the leader of the group singing for mass is referred to as “Worship leader” who “leads the people in worship”. I think this type of decription should be only used for the Priest.

They also conduct worship services in the Church where they clap hands in the pews and sing contemporary Christian music while intermittenly “speaking in tongues”. I don’t really view this as “worship” per se. The tabernacle during this time seemed totally oblivious to the people singing and clapping. It comes off as more of entertainment for those people invovled.
 
Can someone please give me more links with the Catholic Response to “speaking in tongues” “healing ministry” “laying on of hands by lay people”

basically links about the Charismatic movment.

Thank you beng for the links you have already referred me to…
 
James_2:24 said:
**What is one to think of Praise & Worship (i.e. contemporary Christian) music played at masses? **

I find this practice bothersome. It seems as if this music has no place in the liturgy or Catholic Tradition, yet many parishes have adopted this style of worship.

Where I am from in particular, the leader of the group singing for mass is referred to as “Worship leader” who “leads the people in worship”. I think this type of decription should be only used for the Priest.

They also conduct worship services in the Church where they clap hands in the pews and sing contemporary Christian music while intermittenly “speaking in tongues”. I don’t really view this as “worship” per se. The tabernacle during this time seemed totally oblivious to the people singing and clapping. It comes off as more of entertainment for those people invovled.

Definately not my favorite style of Mass. I actually think Jesus Christ is our “Worship leader” at the Mass, so no person should be given that title – certainly not a layperson.

On the other hand, while I don’t attend them, I do support charismatic Masses – as long as they follow the rubrics. Charismatic Catholics have ever bit as much of a right to enjoy their style of worship (so long as it follows the rubrics) as “smells and bells” people like myself.
 
peace be with you!

while praise and worship is not my favorite for Mass, i do believe, like Crusader said, that as long as they follow the rubrics why not let them have it at Mass? i do know that the praise and worship music at a Youth 2000 conference basically helped start my conversion and I know plenty of other people who have been converted through the same style of music being used at good Youth conferences. i have personally seen a lot of good fruits from it. but i would much prefer a Mass with chant to praise and worship.

in Jesus and Mary,
dominic savio
 
There is a time and place for everything, and Mass is not the place for the ‘praise & worship’ you are referring to. If you really believe the Mass is a re-presentation of Calvary, then I don’t think you should be dancing or clapping or praising anything.

“When you have received Him, stir up your heart to do Him homage; speak to Him about your spiritual life, gazing upon Him in your soul where He is present for your happiness; welcome Him as warmly as possible, and behave outwardly in such a way that your actions may give proof to all of His Presence.”
-St. Francis de Sales

If I walked in on a comtemporary Mass, Jesus is the last person that I would expect to be present. I would expect to find some famous musician, but not God. These Masses, more aptly called “messes” verge on blasphemy because of their implicit denial of the Real Presence and their misunderstanding of the nature of the Mass. They are anything but Catholic and are the perfect example of how the Church is being protestantized. 😦
 
Converting from the Assembly of God church to the Catholic Church means I’ve already had my taste of the protestant way. When I enter my parish the last thing I want to hear is drums and guitars. I crave the reverency of the organ, I hunger for solemn hymns. The parish I previously attended had contemporary music at every Sunday evening Mass. Occasionally that was the only Mass I could attend. The more I went the more I noticed the attendance dropping. That alone says a lot. To me, Church just isn’t Church with the drums, guitars, speaking in tongues, etc. Just my opinion.
 
I don’t like contemporary Masses. Attending the Opening Mass at World Youth Day in Bonn was my first contemporary Mass and probably the most faith-challenging event that I’ve experienced in a long time. People were clapping and dancing, but I don’t think anyone was very enthusiastic at Calvary, except maybe the Jews. I could hardly recognize that I was surrounded by Catholics, much less, that I was actually at Mass. This superficial Protestant-like emotionalism was hardly the appropriate demeanor for a Solemn Sacrifice. The end of each contemporary song (none of which contained any reverence whatsoever) was accompanied by applause. The applause made me feel like I was at a musical performance like Woodstock. Then when it came to the Our Father, the doxology was added directly onto the end. After that, applause ensued yet again as if the move were some kind of ecumenical milestone. I couldn’t believe that all this occurred at an event that was organized, not by a parish or diocese, but by the highest authorities of the Holy Roman Catholic Church. I say this especially considering how concerned Pope Benedict XVI is with the Liturgy. On April 20th, 2005, at the conclusion of the conclave, he stated that: “The Eucharist will be the center of the World Youth Day in Cologne in August. I ask everyone in the coming months to intensify love and devotion for Jesus in the Eucharist, and to express courageously and clearly faith in the Real Presence of the Lord, especially by the solemnity and the correctness of the celebrations.” I would venture to guess that the Holy Father was disappointed by the results of his request. Not only was there much disrespect, but the priest in our group that concelebrated the Mass told us that almost no-one received Communion and that there were many Hosts leftover. Another quote that I would like to point out is from St. Francis de Sales. He tells us to “behave outwardly in such a way that your actions may give proof to all of His Presence.” Once again, I don’t think that St. Francis would have been very pleased by the actions that occurred at this Mass. When the Mass (or should I say “mess”) was over, people were saying things like: “Wasn’t that awesome?” Those kinds of statements made me wonder if the Mass we had in our hotel room wasn’t awesome. I mean, Jesus isn’t any more present at one Mass than he is at another, is he? The other thing that I was asked was whether or not I was having fun. All I had to say to that was that we weren’t there to have fun and that shut them up. I think that I made them realize that their motives for going on this pilgrimage weren’t altogether pure. Actually, I don’t think very many people at all were there for the right reasons, which could be why almost no one received Communion. I was disappointed by the lack of education among my peers who supposedly attended “Catholic” schools their entire lives. The whole experience made me uncomfortable. I have to question an institution that not only doesn’t enforce its own beliefs but actually facilitates the opposite. It’s just sad that this institution has to be the Church. Things like this make me sometimes wonder if groups like the SSPX are right.
 
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JSmitty2005:
Another quote that I would like to point out is from St. Francis de Sales. He tells us to “behave outwardly in such a way that your actions may give proof to all of His Presence.”
Speaking of St. Francis, I have several of his books, one of my favorites is “Finding God’s Will For You”. His writing is a joy to read. Back to the topic. 🙂
 
How sad you have put Holy Mother Church in such a small box.
You would even stifle the Holy Spirit.

In my opinion, AND the opinion of others, the ideal Diocese would have a Latin Mass, in one Parish, a contemporary Mass in the Vernacular in another and a Charismatic Mass in another. There are all flavors in the Church that are different but equal in the eyes of our Lord. If you will encourage us Charismatics, I promise to pray and fast for all the rest.

Worship in the Universal Church should embrace all who are truly Orthodox and that means all of the above.
 
I think far more offensive to God is the lousy “St. Louis Jesuit” blah that is served up again and again at parish after parish. The piano is the real enemy not the guitar and the drums. We have a contemporary choir at my parish and they pack them in but we are undergoing a tiff as Fr. has restricted some songs like Awesome God as not being appropriate for Mass. I agree but I think that while Mass is a scarafice and has a somberness to it that we know Christ is risen and that is a joyous occasion. I agree with those who say as long as they follow the rubrics Praise the Lord!!

Lorrie what parish do you attend that the actually use the organ!! Lucky you.
 
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genealogist:
Lorrie what parish do you attend that the actually use the organ!! Lucky you.
The Cathedral here in Little Rock. We are blessed to have a prestine choir and organist. I don’t think a piano, set of drums or a guitar has ever been in our church. Yes, we are definitely lucky (thank God for that). We have a choir from Sussex, England coming soon, they’re very reverent and very un-contemporary. 🙂 I look forward to hearing them.

As a side note, I must mention that I’ve never seen one single liturgical abuse in my parish. Amazing, huh!
 
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Lorrie:
The Cathedral here in Little Rock. We are blessed to have a prestine choir and organist. I don’t think a piano, set of drums or a guitar has ever been in our church. Yes, we are definitely lucky (thank God for that). We have a choir from Sussex, England coming soon, they’re very reverent and very un-contemporary. 🙂 I look forward to hearing them.

As a side note, I must mention that I’ve never seen one single liturgical abuse in my parish. Amazing, huh!
We are blessed to have a Praise and Worship Choir from our neighborhood. We have a keyboard and singers who really put their heart into our music.
As a side note, I’ve neer seen one single liturgical abuse in our parish either.
You can cut the love with a knife and our Pastor, who has only been there since Lent is learning the names of all the Parishioners.
Amazing, huh!
 
music during liturgy and Mass should be liturgical in content and performance and serve the liturgy. Music outside liturgical settings such as youth rallies, children’s programs, retreats etc. can be chosen according to the capabilities of the performers and the needs of the participants, and the nature of the program. Contemporary praise and worship music might be entirely appropriate in some of these settings, where it would be wildly inappropriate during Mass. Our worship is not limited to Mass, and it is entirely in order to pray in other ways and times and other settings.
 
I think the crux of the issue is our underlying understanding of what the Mass is and how that is best experienced and conveyed. Many people go to Mass nowadays expecting it to cater to their likes and dislikes, rating the quality of the Mass on a scale of boring to enjoyable. In this system, music must be exciting in some way for the Mass to be valuable. Which totally misses the point.

I think The Spirit of the Liturgy contains an excellent chapter on sacred music which explains why the Church treasures her patrimony of chant and sacred polyphony and gives them pride of placeo over other forms of music.
 
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Lorrie:
they’re very reverent and very un-contemporary. 🙂
I’m jealous. 😛 IMHO, very reverent = very uncontemporary. It’s nice to see that this is happening somewhere in this country! 👍
 
Andreas Hofer:
I think the crux of the issue is our underlying understanding of what the Mass is and how that is best experienced and conveyed. Many people go to Mass nowadays expecting it to cater to their likes and dislikes, rating the quality of the Mass on a scale of boring to enjoyable. In this system, music must be exciting in some way for the Mass to be valuable. Which totally misses the point.

I think The Spirit of the Liturgy contains an excellent chapter on sacred music which explains why the Church treasures her patrimony of chant and sacred polyphony and gives them pride of placeo over other forms of music.
You’re absolutely right. The charismatic/contemporary stuff has no historical/traditional precendent before the pentecostals early in the 20th century (they are protestants by the way 👍 ). I don’t want to speak for BXVI, but I would venture to guess that he doesn’t look highly upon such things. I don’t know if he said it, but somewhere I heard that the Liturgy is something that we receive and not something that we make up. Too many people expect the Mass to be exciting like Protestant services and I think that this contemporary movement arose within the Church to keep people from leaving for the more ‘exciting’ stuff. I don’t think that that is the right way of going about it. People should be educated as to what the Mass really is rather than destroy it or make it into some sort of musical concert where the performers are in the spotlight rather than God. A priest I know told me that Ratzinger and JP2 didn’t disagree on many issues, but the way JP2 did WYD (which is very contemporary) was one of them. BXVI seems very concerned with the Liturgy which is obvious considering the book you mentioned. Hopefully he can straighten out what is appropriate and what isn’t. 😃

PS - I am NOT anti-contemporary music! It has it’s time and place in worship. However, Mass is not the place for it. Like puzzleannie said, “Our worship is not limited to Mass, and it is entirely in order to pray in other ways and times and other settings.”
 
Andreas Hofer:
I think the crux of the issue is our underlying understanding of what the Mass is and how that is best experienced and conveyed. Many people go to Mass nowadays expecting it to cater to their likes and dislikes, rating the quality of the Mass on a scale of boring to enjoyable. In this system, music must be exciting in some way for the Mass to be valuable. Which totally misses the point.
In addition to Spirit of the Liturgy, another book that I would suggest if anyone out there thinks that they are “missing the point” and would like to get it is The Lamb’s Supper by Scott Hahn. 👍
 
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robertaf:
How sad you have put Holy Mother Church in such a small box.
You would even stifle the Holy Spirit.

In my opinion, AND the opinion of others, the ideal Diocese would have a Latin Mass, in one Parish, a contemporary Mass in the Vernacular in another and a Charismatic Mass in another. There are all flavors in the Church that are different but equal in the eyes of our Lord. If you will encourage us Charismatics, I promise to pray and fast for all the rest.

Worship in the Universal Church should embrace all who are truly Orthodox and that means all of the above.
I haven’t put the Church in a small box nor do I dare stifle the Holy Spirit. I don’t appreciate the accusation that I have done either. The ideal Diocese in my opinion would have all of the same type of Mass. We are supposed to be the universal Church aren’t we? I know you’ll probably bring up the Eastern Rites here. They are different, but their liturgical traditions are apostolic. Contemporary/Charismatic are not.The ideal Mass in my opinion and in the opinion of many others would be to find the true reforms of Vatican II. Vernacular is fine. Latin was once the vernacular language and that’s why it was chosen to begin with. However, it has been part of the Church for so long that it is also a holy language and we need to incorporate much more of it into the Mass than is typically being done. Also, there needs to be more liturgical continuity between the Tridentine and Novus Ordo Masses. I would bet that if we brought back any pre-Vatican II saints that they wouldn’t recognize the Mass for what it is. They may even suspect it to be a Lutheran service. :eek: I think that our German Shepherd realizes this and has a vision to correct it. Like I said before, the liturgy isn’t just something we make up but rather something that’s handed down and that’s why we need to have more continuity between the old and new Mass. For example, I think (and so does Pope Benedict) that it would be a good idea to return to the practice of having the priest face the altar rather than the people. There is no historical precedent for this. It was just made up. We should not be abandoning any traditions* for mere convenience. I have confidence that all the bugs will be worked out. I do not fear for the Church, for she is eternal.
  • “If anyone rejects any written or unwritten tradition of the church, let him be anathema.” -Fourth Anathema of the Second Council of Nicaea (787A.D.)
 
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