Pratt: what media won’t tell you about the new zealand massacre

[LateranBasilica]

So you are in effect in PRINCIPLE (I am NOT saying you are WANTING this, but the PRINCIPLE of what you may be saying, the circumstances would demand it in this case), allowing the killer to go unchecked at all (until the police arrive) or perhaps be bold enough to go kill more people elsewhere!

You have absolutely NO idea of what I am saying in principle. Your lack of comprehension of what I am saying and your attempt to use what I am saying to promote a single minded agenda proves your lack of knowledge or consideration of just what I am saying.

 

[Peeps]

Yes, I knew that the hero was not armed himself and did not fire a gun to stop the assailant.

The main thing that, IMO, wasn’t (and still isn’t) being made clear to the American public is that New Zealand has strict guns already. (Like I said, I saw this on a documentary about New Zealand that I watched while I was sick a few weeks ago–coincidence.)

I think this is important information, as many Americans seem to think that if we enacted very strict gun polices, that gun violence and mass shootings would end. The tragedy that just occurred appears to contradict that theory. For that matter, some of the mass shootings that have occurred in the world happened in countries with strict gun laws, so many of us already doubt the theory of “stricter gun laws will reduce gun violence.”

In our city, we have a shooting everyday, and sometimes multiple shootings in a day, and they aren’t confined to the “bad” side of town (ALL sides are the "“bad” side in our city). In almost all cases, the guns involved in the shootings were illegally possessed by the perpetrator.

I realize that this is a “correlation” not a “cause.”

It’s my theory that removing guns will not stop or even reduce gun crimes. The only thing that will reduce gun crimes is reducing evil in the hearts of human beings. IMO, the debate should not be, “Do we make it harder to get guns?” but instead, “How can we reduce evil in hearts?”

I think that the best way to do this is encourage strong families and family life, and make sure that parents know how to teach their children codes of righteousness and love; e.g., the Ten Commandments, which have been banned from American public schools, and other “Codes of Behavior” from other religious traditions."

I think that the banning of “religion” from public life and schools correlates rather disturbingly with the increase in gun violence and other forms of violence, and that we need to reconsider our policies in regards to public practice of religion.

 

[dvdjs]

I think this is important information, as many Americans seem to think that if we enacted very strict gun polices, that gun violence and mass shootings would end.

I am not sure that anyone thinks there is any legislation that would end these events. But, I think that some people think that some legislation would reduce their incidence and lethality. That argument has some merit.

The only thing that will reduce gun crimes is reducing evil in the hearts of human beings.

There may be other things, but I don’t disagree that this is the most important thing.

 

[Cathoholic]

LateranBasilica . . .

I would certainly not ask the same question . .

But I did. So far you have given no answers here.

Is not a question, it is an interrogative remark as denoted by the word ‘so’. It is also uncharitable and argumentative.

I disagree.

We are attempting to help the situation so people who are proverbial sitting ducks, be able to defend themselves with more than explaining to a shooter, they need to have time to go call police.

“Uncharitable and argumentative” name-calling does nothing to help the problem at hand (for when this kind of thing occurs by some mad man or woman the next time).

there you go again, using the posts of another to attempt to push an agenda.

There is no “agenda” so I would appreciate it if you would quit falsely accusing me of that.

Unless you think “an agenda” is learning from a situation that is international in news scope and wanting to help such people when they are in such terrible situations.

There is no “agenda” here and there have been no answers so far from you.

The country I am in, and my opinions on gun laws or not and types of guns outlawed or not, . . .
. . . Are none of your concern.

I NEVER asked what “country” you are in.

Go back and re-read the thread.

Perhaps we could discuss jumping out of helicopters with weapons, and onto deer during hunting season in New Zealand, by hunters.

LateranBasilica. This kind of thing is really unhelpful to a real discussion. Why are you doing this? This is just irrelevant condescending language.

Why be here if you do not want to discuss the issue and learn from this terrible situation? We can “brainstorm” together, come up with ideas, those ideas can possibly make the world a better place.

You have absolutely NO idea of what I am saying in principle.

That’s because so far, you have refused to state it.

Your lack of comprehension of what I am saying and your attempt to use what I am saying to promote a single minded agenda proves your lack of knowledge or consideration of just what I am saying.

This is not conducive to a real discussion.

If you decide you want to discuss the issue without falsely accusing me of agenda pushing, and other insulting things, I will be open to it.

 

[FirstFiveEighth]

Canterbury is really no different in “gun culture” than anywhere else in New Zealand.

For everyone else’s info, in NZ guns are viewed largely as a hunter’s and farmer’s weapon. There is absolutely no sense of using civilian guns as a final deterrent against a tyrannical government, or even a sense of using guns for self defense.

Just to put NZ crime into perspective, last year there was a big argument over whether the prison system should build additional prisons to handle a future increase in jailed criminals, or look to criminal justice reform because they were running out of beds across the entire country due to an uncharacteristic swell in incarceration. I think the police said they were down to 300 beds. Know how many people were incarcerated in the entire country? 10,000. Point being, crime isn’t an issue in NZ like it is in some parts of the US.

Anyways, besides hunters and farmers, there is a small recreational shooter population that does matches at paper targets using things like accurized old Enfield rifles, and some pistol clubs.

That is NZ “gun culture” in a nutshell.

 

[upant]

I think the police said they were down to 300 beds. Know how many people were incarcerated in the entire country? 10,000. Point being, crime isn’t an issue in NZ alike it is in some parts of the US.

off topic but curious, are recreational drugs illegal?

And the story is that murderer was stopped by an unarmed person who first threw an credit ar reader at the assailant, then picked up and empty gun that the assailant had discarded and threw the gun at him. Is that what you realized?

Yes, the perp run from an empty shotgun. Think about this when people say a good guy with a gun won’t stop a killer. This coward ran from an empty gun. Now, I’m sure in the heat of the moment he didn’t know it was his and that it was empty all he saw was a shotgun pointed at him. when he got in the car and the gun hit the window, he thought he was being shot at so he took off. An empty gun…

 

[ralfyman]

Why look at only two countries? Why not look at several across the OECD.

 

[LateranBasilica]

But I did. So far you have given no answers here.

I am not obliged to enter into your agenda of

attempting to help the situation so people who are proverbial sitting ducks, be able to defend themselves with more than explaining to a shooter, they need to have time to go call police.

“Uncharitable and argumentative” name-calling does nothing to help the problem at hand (for when this kind of thing occurs by some mad man or woman the next time).

You are free to call the words uncharitable and argumentative anything you want, including name calling. However, the interrogative statement that began with a ‘so’, is just that. And as such, should be called on it, especially on a Catholic forum.

There is no “agenda” so I would appreciate it if you would quit falsely accusing me of that.

Your agenda is stated quite clearly in the post I am responding to,

We are attempting to help the situation so people who are proverbial sitting ducks, …

Frame it anyway you like, its about gun control in your country. You are using the tragic situation in another country to try and promote your ‘attempt to help the situation’.

LateranBasilica. This kind of thing is really unhelpful to a real discussion. Why are you doing this? This is just irrelevant condescending language.

I take it thats a no, to ever being on the South Island of New Zealand, especially in the roar. And immersing yourself in the gun culture at that time. Which negates your comments about how you can attempt to ‘help the situation’.

…if you do not want to discuss the issue and learn from this terrible situation? We can “brainstorm” together, come up with ideas, those ideas can possibly make the world a better place.

Again, your agenda. Again, you are promoting discussion on a tragic situation in a foreign country to ‘brainstorm’ how to make your world a better place, with or with out guns.

If you decide you want to discuss the issue without falsely accusing me of agenda pushing…

That is uncharitable, condescending and argumentative.

Again I reiterate . Do not use the tragedy and mass murder to post fake news pushing gun control agenda.

Why not discuss something to help make the world a better place, if thats what you truly intend. The sharing and viewing of the events as they unfolded, live streamed by the murderer. A symptom of how the world is not becoming a better place.
Anyone can wear go pro, and live stream horrific acts and to have thousands watch and share it shows the level of desensitisation arrived at in 2019.

The author of you news article has missed the boat there, these people don’t need the media to make themselves famous, all they need do in 2019 is just what this guy did, stream go pro to social media.

 

[FirstFiveEighth]

off topic but curious, are recreational drugs illegal?

Yes, recreational drug use is illegal, including marijuana. It is enforced about like anywhere else in the western world- a wink and a nod that people use drugs with the occasional drug bust so everyone knows it’s still illegal.

 

[7_Sorrows]

My post was neither uncharitable or
argumentative. It was a simple question.

 

[upant]

Yes, recreational drug use is illegal, including marijuana. It is enforced about like anywhere else in the western world- a wink and a nod that people use drugs with the occasional drug bust so everyone knows it’s still illegal.

thanks

drugs are one reason are jails are full

 

[Cathoholic]

AINg . . .

How did this murderer end up getting his gun?

If you mean where did he purchase them I don’t know.

If you mean was he a legal gun owner the answer is yes.

On March 16, 2019, Breitbart News reported that the Christchurch attacker possessed five guns during his attack, and two of those guns were semiautomatic rifles. He had a license to own guns in New Zealand and acquired his guns legally.

New Zealand Bans 'Military-Style' Semiautomatics, 'High-Capacity' Mags

Prime Minster Jacinda Ardern announced Thursday that New Zealand banned "military-style" semiautomatic rifles and "high-capacity" magazines.

www.breitbart.com

 

[Peebo]

If the new gun control laws work in New Zealand then we all should be happy if it save lives…good luck to them.

 

[FirstFiveEighth]

Seeing as this was the only major shooting incident in New Zealand in ~30yrs, one could equally argue that it is an outlier and NZ’s gun laws have no bearing on the actions of the murderer. What is your standard of success? How can you attribute another 30yrs of no mass murders to eliminating entire classes of firearms when that same state existed before the new law? And it had been 40yrs with no shootings before THAT incident, but they passed gun laws then anyways. And before THAT incident you have to go back to the Maori wars. I think the evidence shows the availability of firearms has no bearing on violence in New Zealand, but everyone want to do something and turn their own citizens into criminals.

 

[FirstFiveEighth]

NZ does have a high drug use rate for things like marijuana, ecstasy, and prescription drug abuse, I think one of the highest in the world, but thankfully it’s hard to get worse drugs like heroin into the country.

 

[Peebo]

I’ve never been to New Zealand but from what I’ve read the majority of kiwis are not too upset about stricter gun control…they are much like Australians…never had to fight for their independence…they have never had a civil war…no 2nd. amendment…no gun culture…I don’t think they worry about tyrannical governments…guns are probably one of the least things on their minds…that’s not saying anything against gun laws here in the US…it’s a different culture

 

[FirstFiveEighth]

I am sure everyone will hand over their guns willingly, lest they succumb to the urge to become genocidal maniacs by owning them. All I am saying is this is nothing but feel good legislation. There is nothing to demonstrate that owning semiautomatic weapons in New Zealand leads to higher violent crime. It is a solution in search of a problem.

In a similar vein, I hear Whitcoulls has removed Jordan Peterson’s book “12 Rules for Life” from all of its stores in the country. Because a self-help book that encourages people to take responsibility and be productive is somehow responsible for this murder. Or something. There are fliers going around Wellington at the moment calling people to find ways to defend their communities from “fascist terror”. Like there is some lurking massive fascist movement holding rallies on Cuba Street! It’s laughable. NZ is in the throes of hysteria right now and it would be much better if everyone would calm down before going around banning everything in sight.

 

[upant]

All I am saying is this is nothing but feel good legislation.

 

[Cathoholic]

It is inescapable and even New Zealand knows it.

When there is a bad guy with a gun, you call on a good guy with a gun.

. . . Holding a Bushmaster semi-automatic rifle, Constable Michelle Evans donned a black scarf on her head and a rose on her chest.

The young police officer stood guard outside the Christchurch Memorial Park Cemetery today, a week after last Friday’s mosque shootings.

This powerful image of police officer Michelle Evans standing guard with a rose and a hijab has been shared widely. Photo / AP

Meet the hijab-wearing police officer

Constable Michelle Evans stands in solidarity with the Muslim community.

www.nzherald.co.nz

The next issue is WHICH good guy? Or good guys?

How can society put a stop to the bad guy as rapidly as possible?

What is the best way to keep citizens safe immediately in such a terrible situation?

Politicians and the wealthy have armed guards.

But what about the average citizens?

(Officer Evans put on this Hijab as a show of support for the victims).

 

[RuthAnne]

Good grief. The paranoia continues, and apparently the only solution is that every man, woman and child pack heat.

It’s not the only solution but it’s a pretty good one.