Pray and fast for conversion of James White

[clmowry]

And the Eastern Orthodox is certainly the Church closest to also being able to make that claim.

And I pray one day soon that full communion is resumed.

The gap to be closed there is certainly much smaller than with any other profession of faith.

Chuck

LOL, yes.

The Eastern Orthodox would like to hear this one, too.

 

[clmowry]

You know I love this stuff.

Let’s see any other Christian denomination can (and does) teach anything they want. And their still good to go.

But everybody’s sure that darn Roman Cult got it wrong for 1500 years and folks need to get out of there just as quick as they can.

Chuck

It’s actually charitable if it’s true and Rome is a false system.

 

[Tom]

I’d like to welcome all of the new members. Debate is a wonderful thing when seeking the truth. I’d like to invite every person to ask the Holy Spirit to guide them to the true Church. Please be careful when listening to any “side” of this debate. Seek disinterested historical accounts where possible, but please, seek all the true history you can get your hands on… Learn as much about the first century Church as you can. There are many references, one useful set is the writings of the early Church fathers. See what they believed about the physical Church.

Where in scripture is your proof.
Apparently, it is Tradition that is the source of doctrines which are clearly not taught in the Bible but which the Catholic Church still says are implicit within its text and elucidated through Apostolic Tradition.

Historically speaking, Scripture is a Tradition of the Catholic Church. Scripture, both written and unwritten, comes from the Church, the Church doesn’t come from Scripture, that’s in Scripture.

 

[clmowry]

Really?

Hmm…

Prove it.

What makes you think this is the roman catholic church? If you read the NT you don’t see the disctinctives of the roman church such as: the marian dogmas, indulgences, praying to saints, purgatory, the pope etc. The church of the NT is not the samething as the roman church.

 

[Tom]

Some of them are as follows: The Mass, Penance, Veneration of Mary, Purgatory, Indulgences, the Priesthood, the Confessional, the Rosary, Venial and Mortal Sins, and statues in the Church.

Each of these teachings comes from Scripture. Start new threads on each, we’ll gladly answer your questions.

 

[kaycee]

Hello ThankfulServant

Could you show me in the Bible where the “essentials” and “non-essentials” are out lined at? Is there even an agreement between the Churches on what is essential and non-essential? Also where is the verse that says it is ok to disagree on these “non-essentials”? Provinding of course there is a list of them.

God bless

Ask Augustine. "In essentials unity, in non-essentials liberty, In all things charity."

 

[Tom]

The issue is whether or not these teachings of the Roman Catholic Church are credible. Do they accurately represent Christianity? Can they be substantiated with the Bible? Or do they contradict the Bible?

Since the Bible came from the Catholic Church, and not the other way around, I’d be very interested in what teachings, you think, contradict the Bible. Since this is not the subject of this thread please begin a new thread on each teaching you feel contradicts the Bible. Most will join in your new threads.

 

[Mickey]

In all things charity.

Bingo!

 

[Tom]

All I’m saying is show me. If we are to be seekers of the truth what better place to find it then in God’s Word.

There is no better place than His Word, which is exactly why we follow the teachings of the Catholic Church.

 

[clmowry]

Nope it hasn’t and it has no need to.

That would be the job of those that belive that they have to extract all of the teachings of the apostles from the bible on their own.

Chuck

What is the correct view of scripture? Has your church infallibly defined and interpreted every verse of the Bible? If it has, can you show me where i see it?

If it hasn’t, then catholics are in no better position than protestants.

 

[clmowry]

Wow. So do I Understand you correctly? Any Catholic who has “faith in Christ” is fine where he / she is in your book?

But then again you’ve also decided that many of us do not have “faith in Christ”? So how do you tell?

Chuck

I am not here to “witness” to Catholics.

Geez. Silliness.

Yes. I do not try to convert any Catholics to join my church. That is nonsense.

Nor do I try to convert Catholics at all, unless they are without faith in Christ…as many, many Catholics are.

As for faithful Catholics, they should already be converted.

You’re not truly praying for anyone’s conversion, but that they will become Roman Catholic.

The problem is that too many have no clue what the difference is.

Very self centered, IMO.

You literally got millions of Catholics in the world who are not even converted for Christ, but they are fine as they are already Catholic.

Nahhh.

Let’s seek to “convert” those who already know Christ.

Great.

…

 

[Tom]

The first church, its growth, doctrine, and practices, were recorded for us in the New Testament. Jesus, as well as His apostles, foretold that false teachers would arise, and indeed it is apparent from some of the New Testament epistles that these apostles had to fight against false teachers early on.

Absolutely correct. I’d include all of the reforming “fathers” in those “false teachers” each had his own individual error, or many errors.

 

[clmowry]

Nope, if he doesn’t he doesn’t.

It’s called free will.

Even if he’s called. He doesn’t have to answer.

Chuck

AND if he does’nt??? Maybe your glass is only half full.

 

[Mickey]

If he thinks he’s right and Catholics are trapped in Roman Catholicism, then it’s the charitable thing to do to try and help them out.

I’m sorry, but this does not compute. It is not charitable to insult one billion Catholic Christians…regardless of his subjective conclusions.

 

[ThankfulServant]

“Thankful Servant”:

I asked you a question, at the end of which I said:

And you responded:

Well for not being James White you are very like him as you take a great interest in James White, as James White does. You come into this forum and this is the one topic you have something to say about, and you let us know you went to his website, and to my comment, you only respond to the sentence with James White in it.

And you debate like James White, because you ignored my quesiton.

And since James White is known for going to forums where his name is mentioned and registering under pseudonames in order to anonymously participate in what is being said about himself, this is not a stretch.

And since he displays such lack of moral charater in his manner of debate and in what he has to say about his own sister, I would expect him to say “No I’m not” when asked his identity, if he knew he could get away with it.

Here’s the question you did not respond to, and I am really curious about your answer:

First, let me try again, I’m NOT James White. And second, I did answer your question, “and while I am not a Calvinist I find nothing wrong in his doctrines that we should be praying for him.”

 

[Tom]

Having a pedigree of apostolic succession or being able to trace a church’s roots back to the “first church” is nowhere in Scripture given as a test for being the true church. What is given is repeated comparisons between what a false teachers teach and what the first church taught, as recorded in Scripture. Whether a church is the “true church” or not is determined by comparing its teachings and practices to that of the New Testament church, as recorded in Scripture.

No, actually having this “pedigree” is essential. Jesus established one Church. He guarantees the Holy Spirit will come upon the leaders of His Church and lead them to all truth. He guarantees His Church will last until the end of time. He guarantees the gates of hell will not prevail over His Church. He spends the 40m days between His resurrection and ascension teaching the leaders of His Church all they needed to know, and gives them (the leaders) the authority to teach in His name.

 

[clmowry]

So what are the essentials?

Chuck

You mistakenly think that there is an earthly organization that is the one “true” church. The true church is not an organization, not a series of buildings, but the body of true believers. The true church consists of those who are regenerate; that is, it consists of those who are the true Christians. There are, however, churches that are Christian and churches that are not Christian.
But you might ask how we can tell if a church is Christian or not? The answer is simple once we understand what makes someone a Christian or not.

Therefore, we can see that if a church or denomination would deny that Jesus is God in flesh, or physically risen from the dead, then it would not be Christian. Furthermore, we could have two different churches that disagree on the non-essentials, but are still Christian since they affirm the essentials.

 

[Tom]

Tradition is a part of every church, and that tradition must be compared to God’s Word, lest it go against what is true (Mark 7:1-13). While it is true that the cults and sometimes orthodox churches twist the interpretation of Scripture to support their practices; nonetheless, Scripture, when taken in context and faithfully studied, is able to guide one to the truth.

I’m sure you didn’t mean “Scripture is able to guide one to the truth”, did you? That statement goes against Scripture.

 

[Tom]

The first church, its growth, doctrine, and practices, were recorded for us in the New Testament. Jesus, as well as His apostles, foretold that false teachers would arise, and indeed it is apparent from some of the New Testament epistles that these apostles had to fight against false teachers early on.

Absolutely correct. I’d include all of the reforming “fathers” in those “false teachers” each had his own individual error, or many errors.

 

[Tom]

The “first church” is the church that is recorded in the New Testament, especially in the Book of Acts and the Epistles of Paul. The New Testament church is the “original church” and the “one true church.”

Absolutely correct, and today it is known as the Catholic Church.
I tried to briefly touch each question you had, not an indepth response, if you’d like more in depth please begin a new thread on “one” item at a time.