Pray for Abdul Rahmen

[JSmitty2005]

**I’m just tired of religion being a barrier within our society, and between families and people… **

Everyone who acknowledges me before others I will acknowledge before my heavenly Father. But whoever denies me before others, I will deny before my heavenly Father. Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword. For I have come to set a man ‘against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one’s enemies will be those of his household.’ Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and whoever does not take up his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. Whoever receives you receives me, and whoever receives me receives the one who sent me.

(Matthew 10:32-40)

 

[chb03c]

pro_universal:

Hahaha, if you don’t read anything I say, how do you know that I’m off topic?

History matters. If we ignore it, we’ll easily become hypocrites, and the proof is in writing on this thread.

The topic of the thread is called “Pray for Abdul Rahmen,” correct I mean that is the name of this thread isn’t it? I have gotten lost on these forums before and just want to make sure I haven’t gotten lost again checks name of thread oh yes it does say that oh good.

pro you have done nothing put post negative actions the Catholic Church has done in the past. Even though I hate it when people dwell on leasons learned mistakes, that is fine but you need to explain to everyone what does Church history have to do with Abdul Rahmen or the killing of apostates? Considering the name of the thread suggests that we should stricktly talk about this topic

 

[inJESUS]

JSmitty2005:

Everyone who acknowledges me before others I will acknowledge before my heavenly Father. But whoever denies me before others, I will deny before my heavenly Father. Do not think that I have come to bring peace upon the earth. I have come to bring not peace but the sword. For I have come to set a man ‘against his father, a daughter against her mother, and a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law; and one’s enemies will be those of his household.’ Whoever loves father or mother more than me is not worthy of me, and whoever loves son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me; and whoever does not take up his cross and follow after me is not worthy of me. Whoever finds his life will lose it, and whoever loses his life for my sake will find it. Whoever receives you receives me, and whoever receives me receives the one who sent me.

(Matthew 10:32-40)

AMEN.

 

[inJESUS]

i just got this mail

AFGHANISTAN

21 March 2006

AFGHAN CHRISTIAN FACES DEATH SENTENCE IF HE WILL NOT RETURN TO ISLAM

Abdul Rahman (41) converted from Islam to Christianity at least 14 years
ago. He is now on trial in Kabul charged with rejecting Islam. The
prosecutor says that if he returns to Islam the charges will be dropped,
but if he is found guilty he will be executed: “We are Muslims and becoming
a Christian is against our laws. He must get the death penalty.” The
judge has also stated that Mr Rahman faces the death penalty if he refuses
to revert to Islam as shari‘a [Islamic law] proposes capital punishment for
any Muslim who converts to another religion.

Abdul Rahman was denounced to the police last month by his family, with
whom he was in dispute over the custody of his two daughters. He has
refused to renounce his faith, despite the threat of execution. He is
being held in Kabul Central Prison, one of 50 prisoners in a cell built for
15. Most prisoners have food brought to them by their families, but Mr
Rahman’s family do not visit him.

AFGHANISTAN’S CONSTITUTION

The death sentence for adult male Muslims who abandon their faith is agreed
by all schools of shari‘a. Afghanistan’s 2004 constitution states that “no
law can be contrary to the beliefs and provisions of the sacred religion of
Islam” (Article 3) thus affirming that apostasy from Islam is punishable by
death. On the other hand, the constitution’s preamble affirms that the
people of Afghanistan will respect the United Nations Universal Declaration
of Human Rights, which in Article 18 guarantees the freedom to change one’s
religion.

Non-Muslim Afghans who have never been Muslims have a measure of freedom in
that they are permitted to “exercise their faith and perform their
religious rites within the limits of the provisions of the law” (Article
2). This applies to Afghan Hindus, Sikhs and the one remaining member of
Afghanistan’s Jewish community. But it does not apply to Afghan Christians
(or other non-Muslims) who have chosen to convert from Islam. [1]

A TEST CASE

The trial of Abdul Rahman is the first of its kind since the fall of the
Taliban regime in Afghanistan in 2001. In 2004 five Afghan converts from
Christianity were murdered either for apostasy from Islam or for spreading
their faith. It is reported that other converts who have been formally
charged by the authorities have renounced their faith in the face of the
death penalty. This means that Abdul Rahman’s case is the first time that
Afghanistan’s ambiguous constitution will be tested. It will set a
precedent for the treatment of other converts from Islam to Christianity.

The judge of the Primary Court has said he will rule on the case within two
months. If found guilty, Abdul Rahman will be able to appeal to the
Provincial Court and the Supreme Court. The execution order would have to
be signed by President Hamid Karzai.

WRITE TO YOUR ELECTED REPRESENTATIVE

Please write to your elected representative to ask for urgent
representations to be made to the Afghan government on behalf of Abdul
Rahman. Point out that the Afghan constitution says that Afghanistan will
respect the United Nations Universal Declaration of Human Rights which
guarantees the freedom to change one’s faith. However if Abdul Rahman is
sentenced to death this would be a clear violation of the Declaration.
Point out that Christians and those of other faiths throughout the world
can freely convert to Islam without fear of punishment, and ask for
reciprocal freedom to be given to Afghanistan’s Muslims who want to leave
their faith. Urge that implementing the Islamic law of apostasy, with its
death sentence for adult male Muslims who convert to another religion, is
unacceptable in the twenty-first century.

It is most effective to be polite, brief and use your own words. If you do
not know who your elected representative is or how to contact him or her,
please refer to the Right to Justice website [2] which sets out information
for those in the UK, USA, Australia and New Zealand.

 

[inJESUS]

cont…

OUTRAGE THAT IS LONG OVERDUE

Dr Patrick Sookhdeo, International Director of Barnabas Fund, comments,
“This case is rightly causing outrage in the West. What I would like to
emphasise is that the death sentence for apostasy is part of mainstream
Islam and always has been since the seventh century. In three of the
schools of shari‘a it is applied to women apostates as well as to men. An
outpouring of indignation and protest on this issue from those who enjoy
religious liberty in the West is long overdue. I call on political leaders
and church leaders to take up the cause of Muslims who choose to embrace
another faith. To pretend that freedom of conscience is not an issue in
our modern world is a scandalous evasion of moral responsibility. In the
face of Abdul Rahman’s plight, those who have for a long time refused to
accept the implications of Islam’s apostasy law can surely do so no longer.

“Islam is a religion which is very active in seeking to make converts. It
MUST change and learn to grant freedom to Muslims to convert to another
faith without penalty. In the twenty-first century Islam can no longer
continue to be a one-way street, which people may enter but can never
leave.

“The kind of injustice which Abdul Rahman is suffering is one of the
principle reasons for Barnabas Fund’s new campaign “The Right to Justice”.
I urge Christians and all people of goodwill to sign our petition which
calls for justice for Christian minorities [2]. Then please write to your
MP, congressman or other elected representative about his case. Please
pass this message on to as many people as you can. And please pray.”

PRAYER ITEMS

• Pray that Abdul Rahman will be strengthened and comforted by the Lord
  Jesus and that his faith will not waver. As an apostate from Islam he is
  likely to be facing abuse from the Muslims he shares a crowded prison cell
  with. It is not known how he is eating, as his family will not bring him
  food. The prison authorities will not allow him access to the Western
  press who want to interview him.
• Pray that, despite pressure from Islamic extremists, Abdul Rahman will
  not be sentenced to death, and that this precedent will allow other Afghan
  converts from Islam to Christianity to live freely and safely in their
  homeland.

LINKS

FOR THE FULL TEXT OF THE CONSTITUTION OF AFGHANISTAN IN ENGLISH

[1] - oefre.unibe.ch/law/icl/af00000_.html

BARNABAS FUND’S CAMPAIGN “THE RIGHT TO JUSTICE”

[2] - righttojustice.org

 

[murtad]

pro_universal:

Okay, so explain what John Paul II was doing kissing a Koran.

Have you read the Quran he kissed? It was not the Quran written by false prophet Muhammad but rather the Christian Quran, meaning a Quran that contains the Arabic translation of the New Testament, with the Al-Fatiha containing the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed.

I too will kiss the Quran (which means in Arabic, recitation) if my Quran is the New Testament. John Paul II, Benedict XVI, Murphy Pakiam (Archbishop of Malaysian Catholic Church) and me all happen to be Trinitarian Muslims. We follow the real Islam, by rejecting the false prophet Muhammad and accepting Jesus as the seal of the prophets, the Messiah, who is fully Lord and fully God.

 

[pro_universal]

murtad:

Have you read the Quran he kissed? It was not the Quran written by false prophet Muhammad but rather the Christian Quran, meaning a Quran that contains the Arabic translation of the New Testament, with the Al-Fatiha containing the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed.

I too will kiss the Quran (which means in Arabic, recitation) if my Quran is the New Testament. John Paul II, Benedict XVI, Murphy Pakiam (Archbishop of Malaysian Catholic Church) and me all happen to be Trinitarian Muslims. We follow the real Islam, by rejecting the false prophet Muhammad and accepting Jesus as the seal of the prophets, the Messiah, who is fully Lord and fully God.

Murtad,

Can you please provide:

1. Evidence that the Koran the Pope kissed had anything other than what the Mufti of Saudi Arabia would say is the Koran in it.
2. Evidence of any Church official using the word “muslim” to describe a trinitarian.

 

[freedomm]

murtad:

Have you read the Quran he kissed? It was not the Quran written by false prophet Muhammad but rather the Christian Quran, meaning a Quran that contains the Arabic translation of the New Testament, with the Al-Fatiha containing the Nicene-Constantinopolitan Creed.

LOL,

Where can I find that Christian Quran?

Would you like to inform your unique discovery to your current Pope, so that he too before kissing a real Quran of Muslims, should make sure it is Christian Quran?

Now does your discovered Christian Quran, contain the below verses:

Mark 3-28-29

28 Amen I [Jesus] say to you, that all sins shall be forgiven unto the sons of men, and the blasphemies wherewith they shall blaspheme:
29 **But he that shall blaspheme against the Holy Ghost, shall never have forgiveness, but shall be guilty of an everlasting sin. **

Exodus 22:19 -22
19 Whosoever copulateth with a beast shall be put to death.
20 He that sacrificeth to gods, shall be put to death, save only to the Lord.

Exodus 31:15
15 Six days there are for doing work, but the seventh day is the sabbath of complete rest, sacred to the LORD. Anyone who does work on the sabbath day shall be put to death.

Levitcus 24:16
16 whoever blasphemes the name of the LORD shall be put to death. The whole community shall stone him; alien and native alike must be put to death for blaspheming the LORD’S name.

Matthew 5:29
29 If your right eye causes you to sin, tear it out and throw it away. It is better for you to lose one of your members than to have your whole body thrown into Gehenna [Hell fire].

-No sacrifice is too great to avoid total destruction in Gehenna. –usccb.org/nab/bible/matthew/matthew5.htm#foot20 ]​

---

 

[LilyM]

pro_universal:

Murtad,

Can you please provide:

1. Evidence that the Koran the Pope kissed had anything other than what the Mufti of Saudi Arabia would say is the Koran in it.

I believe it may have been an Arabic translation of the Bible, I simply cannot see John Paul II kissing the Holy Book of the Muslims. I think it’s for those who claim he kissed the Quran (which is the less likely scenario) to provide evidence that it was the Quran instead.

 

[pro_universal]

LilyM:

I believe it may have been an Arabic translation of the Bible, I simply cannot see John Paul II kissing the Holy Book of the Muslims. I think it’s for those who claim he kissed the Quran (which is the less likely scenario) to provide evidence that it was the Quran instead.

traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A055rcKoran.htm

There’s a large color photo of it with the accompanying news article.

 

[LilyM]

traditioninaction.org/RevolutionPhotos/A055rcKoran.htm

There’s a large color photo of it with the accompanying news article.

1. it doesn’t show any writing on the cover of the book - it could be a cookbook for all I can see
2. I’ve seen several sources denying that it was the Quran. With all due respect to the interviewee, he’s one person.

 

[pro_universal]

1) it doesn’t show any writing on the cover of the book - it could be a cookbook for all I can see

1. official Church sources have repeatedly denied that it was the Quran. With all due respect to the interviewee, he’s not an official Church source.

What!? Can you find one of these official Church sources that denies it’s a Koran?

Now that your post is edited to reflect the fact that no official church sources deny this…do you have anything credible whatsoever? With all due respect, I can’t believe anyone is challenging the photo and the story…if this were false, do you think the Pope might have said something about it at some point in time?

 

[cestusdei]

When will I see Muslims kiss a cross? But you know what? I will be satisfied if they stop killing converts like Abdul and persecuting Christians. Sound fair?

 

[pro_universal]

cestusdei:

When will I see Muslims kiss a cross? But you know what? I will be satisfied if they stop killing converts like Abdul and persecuting Christians. Sound fair?

Sorry, but your concept of fairness is perverted and unchristian. You do not follow Jesus, because you specifically advocate killing millions of people in reprisal attacks.

Consequently, what you will be satisfied with is of no concern for discussing what the Christian approach should be towards muslims.

 

[LilyM]

pro_universal:

What!? Can you find one of these official Church sources that denies it’s a Koran?

Now that your post is edited to reflect the fact that no official church sources deny this…do you have anything credible whatsoever? With all due respect, I can’t believe anyone is challenging the photo and the story…if this were false, do you think the Pope might have said something about it at some point in time?

I was wrong to say ‘official church’ sources. I have seen a couple of denials that it was a Koran but you’re right, there’s more evidence to the contrary.

 

[freedomm]

murtad:

Have you read the Quran he kissed? It was not the Quran written by false prophet Muhammad but rather the Christian Quran, meaning a Quran that contains the Arabic translation of the New Testament…

Dear murtad:

If you are indeed a Catholic now and not anti-Catholic, then you are clearly a disgrace to Catholic faith, Catholic Church and Pope John Paul who is unfortunately not alive today to refute your bogus claim.

Patriarch Raphael I Bidawid is the spiritual leader of Catholics of the Chaldean rite, most of them living in Iraq. It was Patriarch Raphael I Bidawid who first reported the news about your Pope kissing the Holy quran, as per Daily Catholic News:

The first one to reveal the news two years ago was the Catholic Patriarch of Iraq, Raphael I Bidawid, who has the title of Patriarch of the Chaldeans of Babylon, a beautiful title that evokes rich historical memories of the Old Testament. A Patriarch would never make a statement like this without the knowledge and approval of the appropriate organs of the Holy See. This is obvious to anyone who is familiar with the analysis of ecclesiastic proceedings. That is to say, the news was channeled down from the Pope himself. dailycatholic.org/issue/2001Oct/oct8bat.htm ]

For complete text of the interview with Patriarch Raphael I Bidawid:
dailycatholic.org/issue/99Jun/jun2nv3.htm ]

Here an excerpt of that interview:

Q: At what point are preparations for a papal visit to Iraq?

A: It is known that Pope John Paul II has often voiced a desire to make a pilgrimage in the footsteps of Abraham, the common father of Jews, Christians, and Muslims. For the Pope, Abraham is a figure who helps the unity of believers to overcome political divisions. On May 14th I was received by the Pope, together with a delegation composed of the Shi’ite imam of Khadum mosque and the Sunni president of the council of administration of the Iraqi Islamic Bank. There was also a representative of the Iraqi ministry of religion. I renewed our invitation to the Pope, because his visit would be for us a grace from heaven. It would confirm the faith of Christians and prove the Pope’s love for the whole of humanity in a country which is mainly Muslim.

  At the end of the audience the Pope bowed to the Muslim holy book, the Qu'ran, presented to him by the delegation, and he kissed it as a sign of respect. The photo of that gesture has been shown repeatedly on Iraqi television and it demonstrates that the Pope is not only aware of the suffering of the Iraqi people, he has also great respect for Islam. 

  A papal visit would be welcomed by both the people and by the authorities. After the audience I immediately sent a recommendation to the Iraqi government to make the official step of inviting the Pope to Iraq.

dailycatholic.org/issue/99Jun/jun2nv3.htm ]​

To: LilyM
Please read the above carefully and also click the links to make sure what I am talking.
Also click this one too: Catholic World News-CWNEWS:
cwnews.com/news/viewstory.cfm?recnum=10415

 

[cestusdei]

Even if the pope did so it says nothing dogmatically about how we view Islam. It was not an infallible act or teaching on his part. Muslims routinely desecrate our religious symbols. I personally would, and will, never kiss the quran. I {Text Deleted}. I find it amazing this is being debated on a thread that is about muslims preparing to MURDER a Christian. It shows their intolerance and violent dispositions. I say if they do it then we should arrest the court and the executioner and try them at the Hague for crimes against humanity.

 

[pro_universal]

cestusdei:

Even if the pope did so it says nothing dogmatically about how we view Islam. It was not an infallible act or teaching on his part. Muslims routinely desecrate our religious symbols. I personally would, and will, never kiss the quran. It is fiction.

He’s a better Christian than I’ll ever be, and that means dogma or no, his example is one to follow.

 

[LilyM]

cestusdei:

Even if the pope did so it says nothing dogmatically about how we view Islam. It was not an infallible act or teaching on his part. Muslims routinely desecrate our religious symbols. I personally would, and will, never kiss the quran. It is fiction.

JP2 kissed so much ground we could make him the patron saint of farmers if he’s canonised - was he telling us we should worship earth gods?

 

[pro_universal]

LilyM:

JP2 kissed so much ground we could make him the patron saint of farmers if he’s canonised - was he telling us we should worship earth gods?

If you read his speeches to the Muslims and about Muslims, the context of his kissing the Koran is clear:

There is much to respect in Islam, and we should extend respect and friendship to muslims instead of criticism.