J
jimmy
Guest
There is one Godhead.
- Status
J
jimmy
Guest
As JimG said, Christians do not live by Levitical Law. Christ never taught Levitical law, neither did any of the apostles or writers of the bible. They taught to love your neighbor as yourself and love God with all your heart, mind, soul, and strength. To sum up Christs teaching here is a quote from a saint.
Let yourself be persecuted, but do not persecute others.
Be crucified, but do not crucify others.
Be slandered, but do not slander others.
Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep: such is the sign of purity.
Suffer with the sick.
Be afflicted with sinners.
Exult with those who repent.
Be the friend of all, but in your spirit remain alone.
Be a partaker of the sufferings of all, but keep your body distant from all.
Rebuke no one, revile no one, not even those who live very wickedly.
Spread your cloak over those who fall into sin, each and every one, and shield them.
And if you cannot take the fault on yourself and accept punishment in their place,
do not destroy their character.
Let yourself be persecuted, but do not persecute others.
Be crucified, but do not crucify others.
Be slandered, but do not slander others.
Rejoice with those who rejoice, and weep with those who weep: such is the sign of purity.
Suffer with the sick.
Be afflicted with sinners.
Exult with those who repent.
Be the friend of all, but in your spirit remain alone.
Be a partaker of the sufferings of all, but keep your body distant from all.
Rebuke no one, revile no one, not even those who live very wickedly.
Spread your cloak over those who fall into sin, each and every one, and shield them.
And if you cannot take the fault on yourself and accept punishment in their place,
do not destroy their character.
L
LilyM
Guest
That’s beautiful
where did you get it? And who said it?
J
jimmy
Guest
St. Isaac of Syria. I want to get his homilies but they are not in print and the used copies are a little expensive.That’s beautiful
midiowa.com/ssephmac/Isaac.html
F
freedomm
Guest
Dear JSmitty2005:#1 - Islam needs to be destroyed (not merely their governments). #2 - Secular governments are evil. There should be no separation of Church and state. #3 - Democratic republics can work, but aristocracies are better and Catholic monarchies are best!
Your remarks are due to sheer misunderstanding of many issues.
You siad:
#1 - Islam needs to be destroyed (not merely their governments).
Do you want to destroy Islam which is the fastest-growing Religion even in America today
or
the TWO Billion Muslims around the globe?
You appeared to have misunderstood the difference between Islam and the Muslims.
**Islam ** and Muslim are two different terms just like Christianity and Adofl Hitler’s personal religion are different things.
Let me give you an example:
What Christ and Prophet Moses (PBUH) taught is one thing
and
what their so-called different types of followers are “following” and doing is another thing.
These two things are not necessarily the sams thing.
What “infallible” Papacy (RCC) did in the past with the Choosen people of God (Jews) is one thing
and
what in fact Jesus had taught is another thing (which no Church has it, anyway in pure form.)
and Not even what previous Papacy did in the past in Europe’s Dark Ages is same as what Papacy of today is doing under the “guidance” of same “Holy Ghost”, otherwise ex-Peop (John Paul) would not have apologised to the Jews for RCC’s previous stance towards the Jews.
So what Islam is all about is one thing and what some Muslims who claim to follow Islam, are doing is another thing and not necessarily they must be following exactly what Islam teaches.
Second. in Muslim community there is no papacy type “infallible one-man-show” whose words can be taken as Word of God and then held responsible whole Muslim Ummah for the actions of few.
An ideal Muslim community is like Mainstream Scientific Comunity, where ideas (qiyaasaat), approaches (ijtihaadaat) and methodologies (manaahij) are checked and scrutinised in the light of Holy Quran and the authentic Sunnah of Last Prophet of God by the ***ijmaa’ * of Jamhoor ** (learned Muslim majority - consensus) and as a result only those things are accepted as a result of consensus that make more sense and close to the soul of Islamic shari’ah. It is this Scientific nature of Islam, Islam becomes dynamic and march progressivley and updates with every new era without compromising/changing it’s unchangeable Priniciples.
So, you cannot destroy Islam. Once Iqbal said to the Muslims:
**
Whatever comes out of the heart is effective
It has no wings but has the power of flight
It has holy origins, it aims at elegance
It rises from dust, but has access to the celestial world
You (Muslims) will not be destroyed by the destruction of Iran
Wine’s ecstasy is not connected with its container
It is evident from the story of the invasion of Tatars
That Ka‘bah got protectors from the temple**
Do you want to destroy Islam which is the fastest-growing Religion even in America today
or
the TWO Billion Muslims around the globe?
You appeared to have misunderstood the difference between Islam and the Muslims.
**Islam ** and Muslim are two different terms just like Christianity and Adofl Hitler’s personal religion are different things.
Let me give you an example:
What Christ and Prophet Moses (PBUH) taught is one thing
and
what their so-called different types of followers are “following” and doing is another thing.
These two things are not necessarily the sams thing.
What “infallible” Papacy (RCC) did in the past with the Choosen people of God (Jews) is one thing
and
what in fact Jesus had taught is another thing (which no Church has it, anyway in pure form.)
and Not even what previous Papacy did in the past in Europe’s Dark Ages is same as what Papacy of today is doing under the “guidance” of same “Holy Ghost”, otherwise ex-Peop (John Paul) would not have apologised to the Jews for RCC’s previous stance towards the Jews.
So what Islam is all about is one thing and what some Muslims who claim to follow Islam, are doing is another thing and not necessarily they must be following exactly what Islam teaches.
Second. in Muslim community there is no papacy type “infallible one-man-show” whose words can be taken as Word of God and then held responsible whole Muslim Ummah for the actions of few.
An ideal Muslim community is like Mainstream Scientific Comunity, where ideas (qiyaasaat), approaches (ijtihaadaat) and methodologies (manaahij) are checked and scrutinised in the light of Holy Quran and the authentic Sunnah of Last Prophet of God by the ***ijmaa’ * of Jamhoor ** (learned Muslim majority - consensus) and as a result only those things are accepted as a result of consensus that make more sense and close to the soul of Islamic shari’ah. It is this Scientific nature of Islam, Islam becomes dynamic and march progressivley and updates with every new era without compromising/changing it’s unchangeable Priniciples.
So, you cannot destroy Islam. Once Iqbal said to the Muslims:
**
Whatever comes out of the heart is effective
It has no wings but has the power of flight
It has holy origins, it aims at elegance
It rises from dust, but has access to the celestial world
You (Muslims) will not be destroyed by the destruction of Iran
Wine’s ecstasy is not connected with its container
It is evident from the story of the invasion of Tatars
That Ka‘bah got protectors from the temple**
P
pro_universal
Guest
Except there is no Caliph.
It certainly used to be Christian law that apostates be killed (see witch hunting documents above), and that law ended only after secularism and heretical christian warfare dominated Europe during and after the reformation. A cursory look at history will tie this idea of yours that “christians don’t kill” directly to the demise of religious government, which makes it doubly hypocritical to criticize muslims on this issue.
I challenge anyone to show me an example of a Christian state that instituted and enforced religious freedom of its own accord, before the reformation strife and enlightenment driven rebellions.
If anything, muslim countries have gotten more unjust and more extreme since the traditional religious governments fell, and were replaced by secular/nationalist dictatorships. So where Christian societies became more tolerant only after religious warfare led Europeans to abandon religion in government, muslim societies became less tolerant when their religion was debased and removed from its traditional role in government. I encourage you all to think about this before you go slamming islam because of what happens in third world non-states.
If you think this kind of violence proves that Islam is violent, then any fair application of the principles you use to arrive at that conclusion will require you to condemn Christianity as violent also.
And to respond to cestusdei above…what do you think is going to help out Christians in muslim lands more? Bashing Islam and advocating war, or befriending Muslims in order to rely on that bond to ask for reform and protection of christians in their countries?
I
inJESUS
Guest
M
murtad
Guest
Why should Christians move to the “West”? Muslims do not own Pakistan or Afganistan, both which before Islamic invasion comprised of Hindu, Buddhist, Christians and Jews. Islam destroyed native cultures and enslaved Pakistani and Afgan people to Arabism. How does this differ from Zionism? You yourself know all Pakistanis pray 5 times a day in Arabic to the Arab capital city, Makkah.
So, before you start blaming Israel for dispossesing and enslavery of Arabs (read: Muslims), think of your own Pakistan, how your Islamic armies enslaved the native cultures and destroyed them!
Just my 2 cents.
M
murtad
Guest
Islam has no respect for other religions. Look up its history, especially Muhammad and his 4 rightly guided Caliphs, namely Abu Bakr, Umar, Uthman and Ali. Their rampaging mobs conquered what is known as the Arab world today forcing the non-Arab majority to choose among four choices:
*]Acknowledge inferiority, pay jizyah and kharaj and remain non-Arabs
*]Submit to Islam by becoming Arabs and worshipping in Arabic towards the direction of the Arab city, Makkah
*]Exile
*]Die
So, you see non-Arab Christians were foreigners in their own lands. Many Copts fled to Ethiopia and moved southwards to South Afrika. This is why the European missionaries who came to South Afrika were surprised to find Christians already there who were speaking Coptic. Today there remain some 92,360 Coptic-speaking Christians in South Afrika who have lived there side-by-side with the Black natives for about 1,400 years.
M
murtad
Guest
Do you even know the meaning of the word ethinkoi? This Koine Greek word means Gentiles. There was no persecution of Gentiles in Byzantine nation for Christian faith has always forbid racism as Lord Jesus taught that there is no difference between Jews and Gentiles. Our Lord Jesus is Jewish halakhically, born of a Jewish mother, Ever-Virgin Mary, yet he told us to make disciples of every nation (ie. ethinkoi).
This is not true for Muhammad the Arab who chose not make disciples of every nation (ie. ethinkoi) but rather practise apartheid towards every nation his Pan-Arab army conquered, forcing all 22 non-Arabs nations to become Arabs (ie. Arab world), destroying their cultures. That is racism.
M
Mike_D30
Guest
The thing you’re missing is Christians aren’t doing that, and it isn’t ordered in any piece of canonized scripture.
I am guessing you’re a white male. Say for example Asians started kidnapping Africans and enslaving them. If you spoke out against it, wouldn’t a similar defense be “well you’re white and you traded slaves 400 years ago, you should just shut your mouth”?
Isn’t your entire defense illogical? Witchunting documents are not scripture. No one will claim Christian history to be bloodless, or errorless. However there’s a difference between mistakes of men, and what is directed by Holy Scripture.
P
pro_universal
Guest
I like your race analogy, let’s go with that:
What if I said “Asians are kidnapping africans because their skin is yellow, and everyone knows that yellow skin makes one prone to enslaving other people.”
Would an appropriate response by you not be: “Well, people with white skin used to take slaves too. Did you ever think maybe it’s not the skin color that is causing the problem?”
Let’s pray for a light bulb in the heads of everyone bashing muslims on reading the above!
And you’re just doing more of the same with the words of the Pope…disowning everything bad with Christianity, and forcing muslims to own everything bad that a muslim does. Maybe the acts of some muslims who make CNN don’t follow the religious scripture either…ie, maybe “there is no compulsion in religion” from the Koran 2:256 means something to most muslims.
I
inJESUS
Guest
is killing apostates in islam or not?based on this, we will reply if we are bashing it or not.
P
pro_universal
Guest
If it appears that I am ignoring you, it is because I have already answered ithis, and I am tired of having to answer the same question posed 50 different ways every time a thread comes up.
So if you find I am ignoring your question, go back and reread my posts because the answer is there. The problem is that you are not reading my posts. A reading of my posts will cure this want of answers.
J
JSmitty2005
Guest
Wow. And you think I’m the one with a “sheer misunderstanding of many issues.”
I don’t even know where to begin. I quite clearly said that “Islam needs to be destroyed.” How much more explicit do I need to be? I didn’t say anything about murdering Muslims so your tangent was unneccesary. By the way, you’ve been mistaken if you believe that Hitler was a Christian. You may want to check out these posts (1 2 3) in another thread. Furthermore, the pope never apologized for the Catholic Church’s stance on anything. He merely apologized for the actions of some Catholics that commited atrocities in the name of the Church, and they never had the Church’s blessing to begin with! For example, the “crusaders” (they don’t even deserve such an honorable title) that sacked Constantinople had been EXCOMMUNICATED prior to going on their rampage. Finally, you say that “you cannot destroy Islam.” We’ll see about that…
J
JSmitty2005
Guest
Sorry, bud, but you may want to go back and reread the history books to see under what religion science flourished.
M
Mike_D30
Guest
You just completely avoided what I wrote…Your logic is terrible…
P
pro_universal
Guest
JSmitty,
How does your proposal to destroy Islam fit with the Ecumenical spirit of Vatican II? What do you think Pope John Paul II would’ve had to say about someone coming to him with a plan to destroy Islam?
And…out of curiousity, how do you think islam will be destroyed?
How does your proposal to destroy Islam fit with the Ecumenical spirit of Vatican II? What do you think Pope John Paul II would’ve had to say about someone coming to him with a plan to destroy Islam?
And…out of curiousity, how do you think islam will be destroyed?
P
pro_universal
Guest
Uh, no, I made the comparison accurate to the discussion.
You are not claiming that individual muslims are behind attacks; you are claiming that islam as a whole motivates individuals to attack.
The analogy with the skin would go beyond just saying “asians enslave people” and to saying “asians enslave people because they are asian and that’s what being asian does to you”.
Now that it’s more explicit, do you see the connection?
M
Mike_D30
Guest
Islam is destroying itself. Everyday that a father sends his ten year old into a sader dinner to kill civilians, or a Christian is beheaded does more damage to Islam than we ever could. Islam will attack America until even the bed wetting liberals want to throw them out of the country. The Muslims will over stay there welcome and be sent back to the desert for another 400 years. They’ll be expelled from Europe and America until they can live peacefully with thier neighbors. That won’t happen until a full blown reformation to Islam.
- Status