Prayer: A Rant

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sambos671 said:
Ok. So you automatically assume a christian is saying (persecute Jews) when they say I pray that you believe in Jesus as Messiah and become Christian? Do you think its code? Really? I mean the world had changed, especially in the west. And I’m not certain the people who persecuted the Jews were really all that conserned about their souls. They might have said “pray so that we might deliver the land from the Heathen” which would be entirely different then someone saying I pray that you become a Christian. And in todays world there is no one in the west thinking well If I get people to pray for Jews and Jews don’t convert we can confiscate their property, relieve our debt, and basically make their lives miserable. Well, at least not in the West. I would worry about the East but then again they don’t really need an excuse they just hate Jews for some ungodly reason.
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I’m saying that after 1800 years or so, we have earned the right to be wary of good intentions.
 
I understand what you are saying. When I would tell people I will pray for you, I would get the yeah right!

But as time went on those same People say Please pray for me. Its funny me praying for people is like taking a breath of air. ITs automatic. Sometimes I will say I will pray and when they leave I do, What’s really funny some call back and say thank-you so much. After I left things turned around. I always say please do not thank me Thank God. Then I say if you really wanna thank me though pray for someone else, the next time you see they are in trouble. It works.

But if anyone every gets mad at you for praying for them, you can ALWAYS PRAY FOR ME! 😃
 
mark_a said:
I’m with you.
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👍

I agree with Eucharisted, but the language is offensive. Would you let your children use that word? I think some of the posters on this thread must be very young, so we can forgive them.

Having said that, all of the misguided people who believe the Catholic Church is not Christian are welcome to pray for me.

God’s will be done. Perhaps by praying hard enough that God’s will be done, they will see the truth that I see, and will lose the hardness of their hearts.

I still :rolleyes: at their confusion, but I don’t reject any prayer!

If you are Jewish, pray for me, too! We will pray for each other. What could possibly be wrong with that?
 
Guyonthestreet said:
I pray you get a better grasp of the english language and learn to express yourself without having to resort to gutter language.
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mark_a said:
I’m with you.
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Thank you! Both of you!!
I was :eek: :eek::eek:. I thought maybe I must be getting old. Well, I am getting old; I can remember when people got their mouths washed out with soap for that. It seemed weird then. When I read :mad: that, I felt like reaching for the Dial myself. :sad_yes:
 
Valke2 said:
What I am trying to say is that historically such prayers went hand in hand with persecution. Of course the prayers themselves are not persecution.
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Funny that we pray for you to come into the fullness of Truth but you do not pray for us to become Jews.As far as I understand and I have Jews in my own family-Judaism is completely indifferent to the seeking of converts and in a way discourages same.Not very “christian” of you.😃
 
Valke2 said:
I’m saying that after 1800 years or so, we have earned the right to be wary of good intentions.
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At 1800 years, you’ve earned the right to a spot on the talk show circuit. 😉

Seriously, we don’t get to take on the hurt of generations before us. You’re as old as you are, and anything that happened to you in that short time is yours to overcome, live with, or wear on your sleeve.

The stuff that happened to other people is theirs.

Wouldn’t it be nice, though, if we could take stuff from our ancestors. A doctor’s great-grandson gets all the cred that he worked for in school and in practice.

That would be great, but it’s not reality. You don’t get to take stuff from people who happened to be related to you or who shared the same religion or race.

Descendants of slaves are not victims of slavery. Descendants of Christians who were fed to the lions aren’t victims of those games. Descendants of people murdered in the Holocaust of the 30’s & 40’s aren’t victims of the holocaust (unless they were also there).

I suppose it would be nice to claim victimhood based on heritage, if a victim is what you want to be.

If I could take something from my ancestors, in the fantasy world that that would be possible in, I’d prefer to take a really cool profession, a knighthood, or maybe a kingship.

Thing is, I’m pretty sure I come from a long line of paupers.

That’s the ultimate victimhood, isn’t it? Poverty. Lower calls existance. Doesn’t get more victimy than that. 🙂
 
Valke2 said:
I’m saying that after 1800 years or so, we have earned the right to be wary of good intentions.
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At 1800 years, you’ve earned the right to a spot on the talk show circuit. 😉

Seriously, we don’t get to take on the hurt of generations before us. You’re as old as you are, and anything that happened to you in that short time is yours to overcome, live with, or wear on your sleeve.

The stuff that happened to other people is theirs.

Wouldn’t it be nice, though, if we could take stuff from our ancestors. A doctor’s great-grandson gets all the cred that he worked for in school and in practice.

That would be great, but it’s not reality. You don’t get to take stuff from people who happened to be related to you or who shared the same religion or race.

Descendants of slaves are not victims of slavery. Descendants of Christians who were fed to the lions aren’t victims of those games. Descendants of people murdered in the Holocaust of the 30’s & 40’s aren’t victims of the holocaust (unless they were also there).

I suppose it would be nice to claim victimhood based on heritage, if a victim is what you want to be.

If I could take something from my ancestors, in the fantasy world that that would be possible in, I’d prefer to take a really cool profession, a knighthood, or maybe a kingship.

Thing is, I’m pretty sure I come from a long line of paupers.

That’s the ultimate victimhood, isn’t it? Poverty. Lower class existance. Doesn’t get more victimy than that. 🙂
 
Soutane said:
Funny that we pray for you to come into the fullness of Truth but you do not pray for us to become Jews.As far as I understand and I have Jews in my own family-Judaism is completely indifferent to the seeking of converts and in a way discourages same.Not very “christian” of you.😃
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The reason that Jews are not big on converting people is as follows:
  1. Since Jews are required to observe many more commandments than non-jews, we do not want to put an extra burden on the nonjew.
  2. We do not believe that being a jew is necessary to being a good person and having a share in the world to come.
 
If someone beats me up in the school yard for my lunch money ever day for a week and then says he’s not going to do it anymore, I’d be a fool to take him at his word.
 
Valke2 said:
If someone beats me up in the school yard for my lunch money ever day for a week and then says he’s not going to do it anymore, I’d be a fool to take him at his word.
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What Christian has said they were going to pray for you then called you a child of satan. Sent soldiers to you house to imprisson you and your family then auctioned off your property, then had you work in labor camps and starved you and then had you killed in your life time? Which is pertenant to the discussion because in todays world things are a bit different. Also my ancestors were abused by Spaniards as well my people were murdered, raped, and enslaved. Should I fear the Spanish everytime I come accross them? Should I suspect them of doing the same thing today if one say’s I’ll pray for you? It seems ludicrous in today’s society. I would be laughed at for saying it. More to the point who has told you they would pray for you then punched you in the face?
 
Valke2 said:
If someone beats me up in the school yard for my lunch money ever day for a week and then says he’s not going to do it anymore, I’d be a fool to take him at his word.
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I trust then, that you don’t pray that prayer to God that says “Thank you for not making me a Gentile”, RIGHT?
 
sambos671 said:
What Christian has said they were going to pray for you then called you a child of satan. Sent soldiers to you house to imprisson you and your family then auctioned off your property, then had you work in labor camps and starved you and then had you killed in your life time? Which is pertenant to the discussion because in todays world things are a bit different. Also my ancestors were abused by Spaniards as well my people were murdered, raped, and enslaved. Should I fear the Spanish everytime I come accross them? Should I suspect them of doing the same thing today if one say’s I’ll pray for you? It seems ludicrous in today’s society. I would be laughed at for saying it. More to the point who has told you they would pray for you then punched you in the face?
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when was the last time someone in your family was abused for being catholic by a spaniard? The last time someone in my family was spit on for being jewish, as far as I know, was about 10 years ago. The last time someone in my family was murdered fro being Jewish was about 50 years ago.

And even if this were not so, I don’t buy your argument that just because I haven’t been persecuted I have no right to look at the people who have historically persecuted others like me because of their faith with mistrust.
 
Valke2 said:
when was the last time someone in your family was abused for being catholic by a spaniard? The last time someone in my family was spit on for being jewish, as far as I know, was about 10 years ago. The last time someone in my family was murdered fro being Jewish was about 50 years ago.

And even if this were not so, I don’t buy your argument that just because I haven’t been persecuted I have no right to look at the people who have historically persecuted others like me because of their faith with mistrust.
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No spaniard looked on my family poorly for being catholic. But these things happened to my ancestors because they were pagan. So, I should mistrust spaniards because of this? Should people dispise jews in the Jewerly business or Africaaners because recently they did not practice their business fairly and kept a closed community with regard to their business? Should we think that all Jews or Africaaners value money too much and call them all sorts of things because a few do? Should I stay away from any jewish investor because of Murdoff?
 
Prayer is prayer. I have never felt inspired during prayer to oppress or hurt anyone even if I could. I generally start finding it easier and easier to love whomever I pray for. That’s part of the point.
 
sambos671 said:
No spaniard looked on my family poorly for being catholic. But these things happened to my ancestors because they were pagan. So, I should mistrust spaniards because of this? Should people dispise jews in the Jewerly business or Africaaners because recently they did not practice their business fairly and kept a closed community with regard to their business? Should we think that all Jews or Africaaners value money too much and call them all sorts of things because a few do? Should I stay away from any jewish investor because of Murdoff?
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No one would do any of those things, because it’s clearly prejudice.

But people feel free to trash all Catholics for what a few have done, because Catholics are fair game.

If those who do this replace the word Catholic with African American, Jew or homosexual, they would never finish the sentence.

The only other group that people feel no guilt about trashing is white men.

See how easy it is to trash the Church and all Catholics along with it?

The Church is run by a group that is predominantly white men!

How could the Church be good? It’s Catholic and (gasp) has lots of white men!

What could be more evil? :rolleyes:

Jews who go around trashing others for their beliefs (we know how it’s legit. to blame all for the actions of a few, right?) have no right to complain when the same thing happens to them.

A whining “They started it.” doesn’t fly, even in preschool.

We’re all responsible for our own behavior.

You can’t claim the pain experienced by others and use that as your excuse for being prejudiced. Heck, you can’t claim that your own pain is a legitimate excuse for treating innocent people badly.

If you want to be prejudiced, have at it. Just don’t try to claim that your prejudice against innocent people is justified because of other people’s behavior, especially if that behavior wasn’t directed at you!!!

We all have our “tribes”. Loyalty to your tribe is a good thing, until it gets to the point that you’re thinking more like a Mafia member than a person of individual integrity.
 
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