Prayer of Pope to Mary: To Whom Would the Apostles have pointed him ..Mary or Jesus?

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guanophore said:
Well…we read it differently.

We see that the new priesthood is after the order of Melchizedech.

No kidding, seeing as how that applies the Christ.
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guanophore:
Please provide early church documents that affirm this assertion.
I provided a link to this to this book: Israel and the Church: the Origin and Effects of Replacement Theology.
gaunophore:
It seems to me that even common sense would tell you that this is not the case. If they wanted to jettison the Jews, why on God’s green earth would they substitute anything that looked or acted similarly?
I’m not surprised you’d come up with that guanophore—read the book, if you’d like; if not, don’t. 🤷
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guanophore:
This is an erroneous doctrine of dispensational reformed theology, concocted in the last 150 years confined to America.
:doh2:
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guanophore:
I believe you must consider it this way to justifiy disobedience.
Thank you, guanofreud, err, phore.
 
Realcatholicgk;4373836]
Originally Posted by justasking4
…i did not say all truth is. Rather in regards to matters of doctrine and practice it is only those that can be grounded in the Scriptures that are known to be true. To say that Mary and the saints can hear your prayers may sound reasonable but its not a biblical doctrine.
Realcatholicgk
Yes, it is. And it is the Catholic Bible, "I meant the real bible, all books as we decreed it wsas before you “borrowed” t and erased many parts and distorted many verses. But, I am sure you have been told that hundreds of times before, So lets just disregard it again!
Where in your Catholic Bible do we find anyone praying to Mary? Chapter and verse please.
justasking4
Secondly, you have no way to know with any certainity that certain saint can hear you and can do what you ask.
Realcatholicgk
We have what we call miracles which prove they did hear us! So yes we do have a way!
How do your authorities “test” these things? How would they know if a prayer to a specific deceased person is really that person and not something else?
justasking4
Thirdly as i have stated before its absolutely unnecessary since the Lord Jesus is our Great High Priest and Advocate.
Realcatholicgk
You might think it is unnecessary. Thank you for your opinion. I wrote it down. If we need any help with our religion we will refer to the list of people who’s opinion doesn’t matter and see if we can use anything you provided!
Why would it be necessary to pray to anyone else if we know that the Lord Jesus Himself Who is God incarnate is more than sufficent to help us and meet our needs with His great and unlimited power?
justasking4
He alone is our “Helper” in the time of need.
Realcatholicgk
No we have the angels, the saints, and also each other as “helpers” in times of need!
Where in your Catholic Bible does it tell you this? Where does it say that you can pray to angels for help?
justasking4
He alone is sufficent.
Realcatholicgk
Of course, He is! I am rteally sure we never said he wasn’t! So, I am not sure what you are saying? Can you clarify?
If He is totally sufficent there would be no need for anyone else. Your church has added something that Christ and His apostles never commanded.
justasking4
This is solid Scripture teaching.
Realcatholicgk
Who’s scripturtes? Not sure exactly what you mean by that. Can you clarify?
My claim that the Lord Jesus is totally sufficent to meet all our needs is clearly spelled out in Scritpure including yours. Hebrews 4:14-16— New American Bible-- a catholic Bible
14
Therefore, since we have a great high priest who has passed through the heavens, Jesus, the Son of God, let us hold fast to our confession.
15
For we do not have a high priest who is unable to sympathize with our weaknesses, but one who has similarly been tested in every way, yet without sin.
16
So let us confidently approach the throne of grace to receive mercy and to find grace for timely help.

Do you know of any Scripture that says this kind of thing about Mary or any saint?
Up top you said that all truth wasn’t contained in the bible. Now it is again?
True. The Bible is not exhaustive but sufficent for all that we need in matters of faith and doctrine.
 
Here is a question that has been on my heart… I will give a little background to help understand why I ask…

Before my conversion, I was a very strong “Bible alone” Christian. I loved Jesus with such an unquenchabel thirst! I studied my Bible and loved the Word of God. Everytime I could find an opportunity to share the Bible, to share my faith, to serve in church, to serve the community, I jumped on it! All because I wanted to grow closer to Christ! In school I would always carry my Bible on top of my books, to show that I held the Word of God above everything else. I poured over the scriptures, searching for new ways to know and understand my Lord.
Code:
  I remember looking at Catholics, and wondering to myself "WHY do they have all that extra stuff?"  Why do catholics pray to mary? Why do catholics practice all these unnecesary tradtions??? It's not in the Bible! Don't they know all they need is Jesus and the Bible? They are missing out on a TRUE relationship with Christ! I wish they could just see and know Him like I do!

 I was THIRSTY for Christ! And it didnt' seem to me that Catholics were thirsty for anything but unecesary rituals and prayers that SHOULD be directed to Jesus!

But here is what I didn't see.
In the Catholic church, SEEKING Jesus isn’t about pouring over the scriptures or praying to grow closer to Him. These are all still VERY important things to do, and something that catholics who are serious about their faith WILL do… But seeking Jesus is much more simple than I ever realized.
I remember singing the song when I was protestant “This is the air I breathe.”
Code:
 The words were: (and maybe you know it)
This is the air I breathe.
This is the air I breathe.
Your very presence.
Living, in me.

And I’m desperate for you.
And I’m hungry for you.
And I’m thirsty for you.
Jesus.
Code:
   I thought being hungry for Jesus was about discovering Him in just the scriptures. I thought thirsting for Jesus was growing closer to Him in prayer.

But while all of these are good things...what Jesus REALLY asks of us, is that we simply come to Him. That we make ourselves little, like children and obediently, faithfully, lovingly, approach Him. He said in the Bible "this is my body, which will be given up for you."   And many of His disciples left him! Saying "Lord! This is a difficult teaching! Who can accept this?"
But he didn’t correct them, or take back what he said… He asked Peter if He too would leave. And it was PETER who said “Lord where would we turn? You have the words of eternal life.”

Why would it be a “hard teaching” to accept if Christ had not meant it literally? Why would some of his disciples leave him, if it was not truly radical to them? To eat the flesh and drink the blood of Christ? Cannibalism??? But our Lord did not correct them or take back His words.

Today, most Christian churches reject Christ, saying “this is a hard teaching, who can accept it?” because they refuse to be obedient to him as little children. They refuse to stay with him because they cannot accept a teaching they don’t understand. But PETER’s church…the church founded on the apostles who loved Him, have stayed with Chirst. Just as they stayed with Him when He first instituted the eucharist, so too does the church today. The Catholic church has stayed WITH CHRIST for 2000 years, even though others have left because they refused Him.

Let me ask you this… put aside what you believe about Catholics and the eucharist. Put aside whether or not you think it’s true. Imagine for one moment that it IS TRUE. Imagine, that it really IS CHRIST, as He said in the scriptures, who is THERE, present among us in the Catholic church! In every mass! If this was TRUE… wouldn’t you come RUNNING to Him? Wouldn’t you abandon everything you thought you knew, and embrace Him after “searching” and having a “prayerful personal relationship” with Him? Wouldn’t you come CRAWLING on your hands and knees because it’s JESUS!!! ?
Code:
Because either the Catholic church is right... That Christ truly did promise us that when we celebrate mass we eat of his flesh and drink of his blood,  that "he who does not eat of my flesh or drink of my blood has NO LIFE within him"
or

Catholics really are guilty of the most dispicable, evil, and ignorant idolatry the world has ever known.

Isnt’ THAT worth getting to the heart of? Isn’t it worth searching for yourself? Isn’t that kind of REAL relationship with Jesus worth finding out the TRUTH about?
 
Here is a question that has been on my heart… I will give a little background to help understand why I ask…

Before my conversion, I was a very strong “Bible alone” Christian. I loved Jesus with such an unquenchabel thirst! I studied my Bible and loved the Word of God. Everytime I could find an opportunity to share the Bible, to share my faith, to serve in church, to serve the community, I jumped on it! All because I wanted to grow closer to Christ! In school I would always carry my Bible on top of my books, to show that I held the Word of God above everything else. I poured over the scriptures, searching for new ways to know and understand my Lord.
Code:
  I remember looking at Catholics, and wondering to myself "WHY do they have all that extra stuff?"  Why do catholics pray to mary? Why do catholics practice all these unnecesary tradtions??? It's not in the Bible! Don't they know all they need is Jesus and the Bible? They are missing out on a TRUE relationship with Christ! I wish they could just see and know Him like I do!

 I was THIRSTY for Christ! And it didnt' seem to me that Catholics were thirsty for anything but unecesary rituals and prayers that SHOULD be directed to Jesus!

But here is what I didn't see.
In the Catholic church, SEEKING Jesus isn’t about pouring over the scriptures or praying to grow closer to Him. These are all still VERY important things to do, and something that catholics who are serious about their faith WILL do… But seeking Jesus is much more simple than I ever realized.
I remember singing the song when I was protestant “This is the air I breathe.”
Code:
 The words were: (and maybe you know it)
This is the air I breathe.
This is the air I breathe.
Your very presence.
Living, in me.

And I’m desperate for you.
And I’m hungry for you.
And I’m thirsty for you.
Jesus.
Code:
   I thought being hungry for Jesus was about discovering Him in just the scriptures. I thought thirsting for Jesus was growing closer to Him in prayer.

But while all of these are good things...what Jesus REALLY asks of us, is that we simply come to Him. That we make ourselves little, like children and obediently, faithfully, lovingly, approach Him. He said in the Bible "this is my body, which will be given up for you."   And many of His disciples left him! Saying "Lord! This is a difficult teaching! Who can accept this?"
But he didn’t correct them, or take back what he said… He asked Peter if He too would leave. And it was PETER who said “Lord where would we turn? You have the words of eternal life.”

Why would it be a “hard teaching” to accept if Christ had not meant it literally? Why would some of his disciples leave him, if it was not truly radical to them? To eat the flesh and drink the blood of Christ? Cannibalism??? But our Lord did not correct them or take back His words.

Today, most Christian churches reject Christ, saying “this is a hard teaching, who can accept it?” because they refuse to be obedient to him as little children. They refuse to stay with him because they cannot accept a teaching they don’t understand. But PETER’s church…the church founded on the apostles who loved Him, have stayed with Chirst. Just as they stayed with Him when He first instituted the eucharist, so too does the church today. The Catholic church has stayed WITH CHRIST for 2000 years, even though others have left because they refused Him.

Let me ask you this… put aside what you believe about Catholics and the eucharist. Put aside whether or not you think it’s true. Imagine for one moment that it IS TRUE. Imagine, that it really IS CHRIST, as He said in the scriptures, who is THERE, present among us in the Catholic church! In every mass! If this was TRUE… wouldn’t you come RUNNING to Him? Wouldn’t you abandon everything you thought you knew, and embrace Him after “searching” and having a “prayerful personal relationship” with Him? Wouldn’t you come CRAWLING on your hands and knees because it’s JESUS!!! ?
Code:
Because either the Catholic church is right... That Christ truly did promise us that when we celebrate mass we eat of his flesh and drink of his blood,  that "he who does not eat of my flesh or drink of my blood has NO LIFE within him"
or

Catholics really are guilty of the most dispicable, evil, and ignorant idolatry the world has ever known.

Isnt’ THAT worth getting to the heart of? Isn’t it worth searching for yourself? Isn’t that kind of REAL relationship with Jesus worth finding out the TRUTH about?
WOW! I could tell, that came from deep in your heart! Too bad it is wasted on the “attackers” here! Their motto appears to be:
Credo quia absurdum, I believe it because it is absurd. God Bless! You said what you had to, what else can be asked?
 
Where in your Catholic Bible do we find anyone praying to Mary? Chapter and verse please.

**
That wasn’t the question! Don’t try to twist things it won’t work! I have watched you at work, lying. twisting thoughts answers and questions to suit yor own needs even changing words from the bible itself! Do you also practice magic tricks? You said:**
“To say that Mary and the saints can hear your prayers may sound reasonable but its not a biblical doctrine”
My answer was: "Yes, it is. And it is the Catholic Bible, "I meant the real bible, all books as we decreed it was before you "borrowed"it and erased many parts and distorted many verses. But, I am sure you have been told that hundreds of times before, So lets just disregard it again!"

**
That answer still stands! Do your own homework and don’t twist any other words I speak! That is what the devil does ,doesn’t he? We don’t want anyone to say something bad about you behind your back! One thing for sure you will never get Nihil Obstat or an Impromatur on anything you ever write!😃
**
How do your authorities “test” these things? How would they know if a prayer to a specific deceased person is really that person and not something else?

**
There is a process! Sigh, It looks like you have more homework to do. Any why would ‘something else’ do anything? Remember the PPD that we discussed? Have you seen anyone about it? Paranoia is treatable, you don’t have to be plagued by this curse! Please seek help if you really feel you need it, don’t be afraid! I will pray to the Blessed Mother for you! 👍 **

Why would it be necessary to pray to anyone else if we know that the Lord Jesus Himself Who is God incarnate is more than sufficent to help us and meet our needs with His great and unlimited power?

It isn’t necessary, you silly goose! I am not sure what you are saying. Can you clarify?

Where in your Catholic Bible does it tell you this? Where does it say that you can pray to angels for help?

Where does it say we can’t? The Bible teaches that we are to “worship” God alone. Prayer, in terms of worship, is always in the Bible properly addressed to God alone. Prayer, is also of cours,e used in terms of a request We can request anything from anyone. Like “Could you please try not to lie anymore.” If I put an “Amen” on the end, you could say it would be a prayer to you! One begging for you to stop!
There are no restriction on that! Show me one verse that says “You can not request help” and I will stop immediately! Since angels are only God’s messengers and are created beings then worship type prayer could never be addressed to them. Revelation 22:8-9 (King James Version) tells us never to “worship” angels as they are creations just like us. No where does it say we can not pray to Angels or saints to help us.


If He is totally sufficent there would be no need for anyone else. Your church has added something that Christ and His apostles never commanded.

Of course, there is no need,except our Human need to talk to other people, and request their help! But it is not prohibited, so it is permissable! Can we help it that you lost seven of the books that you “borrowed” from us?

My claim that the Lord Jesus is totally sufficent to meet all our needs is clearly spelled out in Scritpure including yours. Hebrews 4:14-16— New American Bible-- a catholic Bible.

**
We also agree with you. I never called your “claim” false did I? Jesus is “totally sufficent to meet all out needs” If one Catholic disagrees with you. Let me know! However, that still doesn’t mean we “can not pray to others”, if we feel like it!"The intercession of fellow Christians—which is what the saints in heaven are—also clearly does not interfere with Christ’s unique mediatorship because in the four verses immediately preceding 1 Timothy 2:5, Paul says that Christians should interceed: “First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth” (1 Tim. 2:1–4). Intercessory prayers offered by Christians on behalf of others is something “good and pleasing to God,” not something infringing on Christ’s role as mediator.
**

Do you know of any Scripture that says this kind of thing about Mary or any saint?

**Do I care? Not realy. What was your point? Not sure what you are saying. Can you clarify?
**

True. The Bible is not exhaustive but sufficent for all that we need in matters of faith and doctrine.
 
“Realcatholicgk” your post is cracking me up :rotfl:
**
Hi Ashley,
JustAsking4 can’t be taken too seriousely.😉 They are really good people, who are just wrong! 👍 They go around asking the same 20-25 questions over and over. Again and again. You say something they will change the meaning or ask a question that defys logic. But they are nice people and deserve our respect and love! :rolleyes:

God Bless**
 
Agreed, however, would you not agree with me that there are others among us that have a higher degree of personal union with him than you and I? For me, that is all that a saint is: someone who is so closely united to Christ that he or she does nothing (or very little) to squander the graces they have received from their lord.

For me, the communion of saints is a very comforting doctrine, because it provides me with shining examples of people who have been transformed by God’s grace. They are the work of God, which inspires me and helps me to believe that God will transform my evil will in the same way, if only I cleave to him. We all need recourse to such examples as this, for the example and also for their prayers!!

Here is a quote from Paul Phillipians 3 7-

So here we have Paul who considers everything as loss compared to the unsurpased knowledge of Christ, inviting us to immitate himself (and not Christ!!), and he also invites us to immitate those who immitate him; and this even after he admits that he had not yet attained the goal. Why would he not say to immitate Christ? Why would he invite the Phillipians to look to his own human example? And if it is alright to immitate Paul, why can we not look at the lives of the saints and immitate them as well? Why can we not look to them for intercession, who are mature in the spirit, who are citizens of heaven?

God bless,
Ut
I just wanted to complete this thought. For me immitation is a form of veneration. For me the cult of the saints is a cult of immitation. We try to tap into the special way in which God’s grace has transformed the life of particular individuals in various points in time. We commune with them because we believe they are part of the body of Christ and through Christ they can interceed for us, both to help us come closer to Christ and also to help us in our temporal needs. I consider the saints as friends in Christ, whom I can admire and immitate.

God bless,
Ut
 
guanophore;4374652]
Originally Posted by justasking4
I have. I have continually exhorted catholics and others to pray only to the Lord Jesus and have backed it up with Scripture. What has not been done by those who pray to Mary is that they have failed to show from Scripture anyone praying to her.
guanophore
Here is a good example. We don’t need, or want, your “exhortation”, thanks. CAF is not provided as an opportunity for you to “exhort” us about our faith, and try to interfere with our prayer lives.
You use words like “we” “us” and “our”. Last i looked there are something like over 100,000 members or posters out here. Am i to believe you speak for all of them??? :ballspin:

If you do i would consider this to be a greater power than your ability to read minds over the net… I’m impressed…👍
 
**
Hi Ashley,
JustAsking4 can’t be taken too seriousely.😉 They are really good people, who are just wrong! 👍 They go around asking the same 20-25 questions over and over. Again and again. You say something they will change the meaning or ask a question that defys logic. But they are nice people and deserve our respect and love! :rolleyes:

God Bless**
Do you consider people who have been accused of lying but never proven to be “really good people”? Would you respect some so accused? 🤷
 
You use words like “we” “us” and “our”. Last i looked there are something like over 100,000 members or posters out here. Am i to believe you speak for all of them??? :ballspin:

If you do i would consider this to be a greater power than your ability to read minds over the net… I’m impressed…👍
That's one of the beautiful gifts of the Catholic Church... we can say "we" with confidence.. because "we" are all connected into God's family through the body of Christ:) Individuals may have opinions and variations in practices, but as a whole, we are united to ONE body... One Lord and One goal. THIS is what Christ desired, when He called for unity among His church:)
 
That’s one of the beautiful gifts of the Catholic Church… we can say “we” with confidence… because “we” are all connected into God’s family through the body of Christ:) Individuals may have opinions and variations in practices, but as a whole, we are united to ONE body… One Lord and One goal. THIS is what Christ desired, when He called for unity among His church:)
What is this unity to be based on that the Lord Jesus prayed for in John 17:20-21?
 
What is this unity to be based on that the Lord Jesus prayed for in John 17:20-21?
They do not belong to the world any more than I belong to the world.
17
Consecrate them in the truth. Your word is truth.
18
As you sent me into the world, so I sent them into the world.
19
And I consecrate myself for them, so that they also may be consecrated in truth.
20
“I pray not only for them, but also for those who will believe in me through their word,
21
so that they may all be one, as you, Father, are in me and I in you, that they also may be in us, that the world may believe that you sent me.
22
And I have given them the glory you gave me, so that they may be one, as we are one,
23
I in them and you in me, that they may be brought to perfection as one, that the world may know that you sent me, and that you loved them even as you loved me.
24
Father, they are your gift to me. I wish that where I am 7 they also may be with me, that they may see my glory that you gave me, because you loved me before the foundation of the world.
25
Righteous Father, the world also does not know you, but I know you, and they know that you sent me.
26
I made known to them your name and I will make it known, 8 that the love with which you loved me may be in them and I in them.”
We are absolutely one in Christ, one in truth:) I'm not sure what you are trying to use from the passage to tell us the communion of saints is false? Can you elaborate?
 
If He is totally sufficent there would be no need for anyone else. Your church has added something that Christ and His apostles never commanded.

My claim that the Lord Jesus is totally sufficent to meet all our needs is clearly spelled out in Scritpure including yours.
Knowing this, ja4, one finds oneself puzzled about your presence here on CAF. Clearly, if Christ has met all your needs, there is no need for you to be here! yet, you seemed compelled by some force to continually belittle our faith, buzzing about like a biting horsefly, finding fault with our practices. This does not seem like the behavior of a person whose needs are all met by the Lord Jesus. 🤷
 
You use words like “we” “us” and “our”. Last i looked there are something like over 100,000 members or posters out here. Am i to believe you speak for all of them??? :ballspin:

If you do i would consider this to be a greater power than your ability to read minds over the net… I’m impressed…👍
I hearby invite all Catholics at CAF to please subtract yourself from the collective comment I have posted. If you feel that you need to be taught the “bible only” method of following God according to ja4, then I will publicly apologize for misrepresenting you.

In the meantime, who would like to join me in a great prayer to an angel?

Saint Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle.
Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray;
and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host -
by the Divine Power of God -
cast into hell, satan and all the evil spirits,
who roam throughout the world seeking the ruin of souls.

Amen.
 
A quibble that caused a schism.
The schism was not over the fact that the Bishop of Rome was called the “See of Peter.” Even Ecumenical Councils accepted by Orthodoxy understand it to be such.

According to an Eastern Orthodox text:
The Bishop of Rome is the direct heir of Peter, whereas the others are heirs only indirectly, and sometimes only by the mediation of Rome.” (THE PRIMACY OF PETER : Essays in Ecclesiology and the Early Church edited by John Meyendorff, St. Vladimir’s Seminary Press, 1992, page 98-99)
The schism has to do with the disagreement about what that primacy means, not whether or not that primacy exists.
 
I hearby invite all Catholics at CAF to please subtract yourself from the collective comment I have posted. If you feel that you need to be taught the “bible only” method of following God according to ja4, then I will publicly apologize for misrepresenting you.

In the meantime, who would like to join me in a great prayer to an angel?

Saint Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle.
Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray;
and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host -
by the Divine Power of God -
cast into hell, satan and all the evil spirits,
who roam throughout the world seeking the ruin of souls.

Amen.
:signofcross:
 
You use words like “we” “us” and “our”. Last i looked there are something like over 100,000 members or posters out here. Am i to believe you speak for all of them??? :ballspin:

If you do i would consider this to be a greater power than your ability to read minds over the net… I’m impressed…👍
I have to concur that your mere disagreement with authentic Christianity doesn’t amount to a compelling argument to cease praying as Christians of every century since the advent of Christ have prayed.

Here’s a prayer I’ll offer up on your behalf, one that comes from a 3rd century papyrus (ca. AD 250) which predates the canon of Scripture:

Beneath your compassion,
We take refuge, O Mother of God:
do not despise our petitions in time of trouble:
but rescue us from dangers,
only pure, only blessed one.
 
A
shleyBelle;4378956]:
Originally Posted by guanophore View Post
I hearby invite all Catholics at CAF to please subtract yourself from the collective comment I have posted. If you feel that you need to be taught the “bible only” method of following God according to ja4, then I will publicly apologize for misrepresenting you.
In the meantime, who would like to join me in a great prayer to an angel?
Saint Michael the Archangel,
defend us in battle.
Be our protection against the wickedness and snares of the devil.
May God rebuke him, we humbly pray;
and do Thou, O Prince of the Heavenly Host -
by the Divine Power of God -
cast into hell, satan and all the evil spirits,
who roam throughout the world seeking the ruin of souls.
Amen.
AshleyBelle
View attachment 4475
 
I have to concur that your mere disagreement with authentic Christianity doesn’t amount to a compelling argument to cease praying as Christians of every century since the advent of Christ have prayed.

Here’s a prayer I’ll offer up on your behalf, one that comes from a 3rd century papyrus (ca. AD 250) which predates the canon of Scripture:

Beneath your compassion,
We take refuge, O Mother of God:
do not despise our petitions in time of trouble:
but rescue us from dangers,
only pure, only blessed one.
Here is a prayer that i will pray not only for you but everyone out on this forum. Its from Ephesians 3

**14 For this reason I bow my knees before the Father,

15 from whom every family in heaven and on earth derives its name,

16 that He would grant you, according to the riches of His glory, to be strengthened with power through His Spirit in the inner man,

17 so that Christ may dwell in your hearts through faith; and that you, being rooted and grounded in love,

18 may be able to comprehend with all the saints what is the breadth and length and height and depth,

19 and to know the love of Christ which surpasses knowledge, that you may be filled up to all the fullness of God.

20 Now to Him who is able to do far more abundantly beyond all that we ask or think, according to the power that works within us,

21 to Him be the glory in the church and in Christ Jesus to all generations forever and ever. Amen.

**
 
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