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dcana
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Exactly. The Father did not die on the cross because only the Word took flesh and dwelt among us. Accordingly, only the Word-made-flesh was capable of dying at all.
Prayer Restrictions Imposed On Me When Trying To Go Back To The Mormon Church
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CatholicGuyNY
Guest
I think it’s best to leave this issue for a separate thread, since it comes up over and over in the Mormon-related threads.
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LongJourney
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thank you>
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dcana
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Sorry, gotta go. Thank you all. God bless you.
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Holly3278
Guest
I think my main complaint with these restrictions that this “bishop” imposed on me is he basically made them as requirements for me. In fact, I think he even stated that I was required to do these things. I knew that this was wrong and to me, this was a red flag that the Mormon church is not what it claims to be.
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LongJourney
Guest
Diana, Diana, we Catholics have many forms of prayer. Maybe you ought to read up on it.
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dianaiad
Guest
the “King’s X” is an odd thing, LJ.–for instance, children use it when they cross their fingers behind their backs to show that a fib doesn’t “count.“It is the 'King’s excuse,” which is often used by people who want to say something mean spirited or insulting, but not take responsibility for having said it. Having issued an insult, they follow those words quickly with 'just kidding!” or “JK” or even better, wait until someone reacts negatively before saying something like 'can’t you take a joke?" or “I’m just messing with you…”Hey, it worked!! I have been trying to play chess lately.
It’s an attempt to blame the target; how dare he object to being shot at?
So…did it work?
(thinking)
Not so much, no.
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zerinus
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I think you have made some of this story up. The restriction on giving public prayers or participating in class discussions etc. applies to all excommunicated Church members, including those who have had their names removed. That is part of the disciplinary action taken against them I suppose. They are encouraged to attend Church, but they cannot participate in those activities until their membership is reinstated. But the bit about having to kneel in prayer even it hurts seems very doubtful to me.Hey everyone. A couple of years ago, when I was having doubts about Catholicism, I went to the “bishop” of the local Mormon church and asked him if I could be re-baptized (I had my name withdrawn from the Mormon church’s records and doing that effectively “undoes” your “baptism” and “confirmation” in the Mormon church. Anyway, while I was there, he asked me to lead him and I in prayer. So I did. I started out saying an ordinary prayer in modern English and used the word “Lord” instead of “Heavenly Father” (Mormons do not pray to any member of their “godhead” except for the “Heavenly Father”. Well, he “corrected” me and told me that out of respect for the Lord, we are to refer to the Lord in the “language of the Bible” and use “thees” and “thous” etc. Also, he instructed me only to to refer to the Lord as “Heavenly Father”. So I started over and continued like that. He continued to criticize my prayer. I don’t remember what else he said but he did criticize it. Also, he told me that I was not allowed to lead any sort of public prayer until I was initiated back into the Mormon church. Basically I was not allowed to lead a prayer in their classes or anything even if I was asked to do so. I thought this to be rather strange. And then he imposed yet another restriction on prayer. He said that when I pray at home, I should always kneel when I pray. Well, I told him that I can’t do that due to knee problems and he told me that I would just have to endure the pain.
But anyway, I thought that all of this was very weird and it was one reason why I chose not to be re-initiated and now I am back home with the Catholic Church.
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Holly3278
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So you are calling me a liar then??? I am telling you, I am telling the truth as far as I can remember it. I am 99% certain that he told me that I have to kneel during private prayer regardless of whether it hurts or not.
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LongJourney
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OK, we never called it that. I suspect is is just a thing from Mormon culture.
No, it worked, to get Todd to define where he is on the rabid Mormon to NOM continuum.
Zerinus long ago proclaimed where he is on that continuum.
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dianaiad
Guest
I certainly respect your opinion on this, dcana…as long as you realize that I don’t agree with it, and that your proclamation does not make your opinion ‘so.’ That you believe this is obvious.
You are wrong, but hey, I’m quite certain that you have the same opinion of my own beliefs in this matter.
Just remember; I’m not the one trying to kick YOU out of the fellowship of those who believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Redeemer and Saviour.
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dianaiad
Guest
For what, LJ?thank you>
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dianaiad
Guest
Holly, I’m sorry you came away from that experience with the impression you did. If it helps any, I don’t think that the Bishop handled the situation all that well, if your description of the events is exactly as you relate them.
I do think that it is important, though, as a Mormon, to remember that prayer to us–mostly because there are so FEW formal elements and no memorized ones–should contain those very few things. Not because of form, but because of what the form means.
How we address the Father in the beginning, for instance–it is important to us to differentiate the Father from the Son and the Holy Ghost; it goes very much to the base of our doctrines. Since the language is our own–we are to use our own words and say what WE need to say, not recite something someone else wrote (no matter how beautiful those words might be)–we ask that the ‘thee’ and ‘thou’ be used, so that we can remember what we are actually doing; to keep us in the ‘prayer’ mind set. Then we end in the Name of Jesus Christ–because it is in His Name that we do everything. Praying this way is very much a part of being LDS. It’s very much a part of who we are.
That said…I don’t kneel to pray, either. I’m looking forward to the day, however, when I can do so again.
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zerinus
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In that case he didn’t know what he was talking about then. I have prayed many times with my bishop in his office sitting in a chair.
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dianaiad
Guest
then why criticise Mormons for theirs?
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LongJourney
Guest
I don’t. Pray as you wish, but I am beginning to realize that my prayer-life has been impoverished by that sneaky LDS cultural influence.
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Todd520
Guest
It’s very catholic, or at least it was pervasive in my Catholic school
And to think you chose not to just ask me for my positionNo, it worked, to get Todd to define where he is on the rabid Mormon to NOM continuum.
Since your first response has consistently been to bait and attack, I’ll just put you on “ignore”
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Pahoran
Guest
Another failed attempt to define Mormons out of Christianity.
The reason why this fails is fully explained in this book, Offenders for a Word.
Regards,
Pahoran
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CatholicGuyNY
Guest
I’m unsure if you actually read what you quoted, but my response had nothing to do with defining Mormons out of Christianity. Read it again and the post that I was responding to.
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dianaiad
Guest
(snort)
Hardly. “King’s X” is a standard children’s shout…sometimes it’s “King’s cruses,” or “King’s excuse…” and Robert Browning certainly used it to great effect in a poem criticising America having used the atomic bomb.
*Having invented a new Holocaust,
And been the first with it to win a war,
How they make haste to cry with fingers crossed,
King’s X–no fairs to use it any more!
–Robert Frost *
With all due respect, LJ, your continuum, when placed alongside LDS belief, matches about as well as having King’s X lipsynch the Flower Duet. Doesn’t really work, y’know?No, it worked, to get Todd to define where he is on the rabid Mormon to NOM continuum.
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