The word “prayer” has narrowed in meaning. It now means to most Non-Catholics something one does only as an act of worship with God. So when anyone talks of “praying to” Mary, the non-Catholic automatically assumes that they are worshiping and talking to Mary in a way that is reserved for God alone.
There’s good reason for that. Take, for instance, what is being said to Mary. Here are some snippets of the prayers I posted in the opener:
“Obtain for them and for us the pardon of so many sins.”
“To thank thee for keeping me safe this day,
To ask thee this night to keep evil away. “
“Make me faithful to the flock
entrusted to me by the Good Shepherd.”
”I consecrate and entrust myself to you, Mary,”
“I hear all men call thee the refuge and hope of sinners:
be therefore my refuge and my hope.”
“I know that thou wilt help me,
if I commend myself to thee;
but I am fearful lest in the occasions of sin
I shall forget to call upon thee
and so I shall be lost.”
“Mother of Perpetual Help,
permit me not to lose my God.”
“grant me ever to be able to call upon thy powerful name,
since thy name is the help of the living
and the salvation of the dying.”
“In thy hands I place my eternal salvation;
to thee I entrust my soul.”
None of those things should be directed to anyone less than God. He alone is the One whom we should trust for our salvation. He is our refuge and help (see the Psalms).
However, all you have to do is to think of old time English and phrases like “I pray thee husband” A woman is not “praying” to her husband, she is asking him fervently. That is what Catholics do when we “pray” to Mary, ask her fervently for her prayer. In a similar manner that we would ask a fellow Christian her on earth to pray for us.
Another important issue. When used in a context as you indicate, we are speaking to someone who is still with us in body, mind and spirit. We have acces to them, whether we are with each other in person. We can use the telephone, email, snail mail, face book, etc. to communicate with them. However, when a person has passed on to glory, we don’t have those means to communicate with them. They are alive in spirit, but we do not communicate with spirits and we are forbidden to communicate with spirits.
“Give no regard to mediums and familiar spirits; do not seek after them, to be defiled by them: I am the Lord your God.” (Leviticus 19:31)
“And the person who turns after mediums and familiar spirits, to prostitute himself with them, I will set My face against that person and cut him off from his people.” (Leviticus 20:6)
Actually, no. Did you realize in the definitions in the Catholic Church, it is clearly defined as to what kind of devotion we can give to Mary and the Saints? It is much clearer in Latin. But one CAN be devoted to ones husband, children without worshipping them as one worships God. It is as simple as that.
Again, we talking about devotion to spirits. The fact that the Catholic Church allows or promotes any kind of devotion to any spirit outside of God is disturbingly wrong.
You believe those who are in heaven are dead? You truly can’t in anyway think this. Think critically about this, please!
They can’t be for they are alive in Christ, so the scripture you quote CANNOT apply to those who are alive in Christ in heaven. They Are NOT dead.
They are alive in spirit, and I stand by what I said earlier in this regard. We are not to comunicate with spirits.
And when we “pray to” or ask Mary to pray for us, we aren’t looking for knowledge as those who call up spirits do. We are simply asking part of the body of Christ, to pray for another part of the body of Christ.
As demonstrated with the snippets from prayers in the opeing post, much much more is being asked of Mary than to pray fo another part of the body of Christ. She is being asked for help, protection, obtaining pardons, praised for protection, told that her “powerful name” is the salvation of the dying, etc, etc. This is serious! God alone is the One of whom those things should be directed to.
Once again, I ask each one here to examine your hearts. What is it that drives you to Mary or other saints who have passed on before us? In heaven, God alone is absolutely sufficient to meet our needs for salvation and every other imaginable need we can possibly have.
Sorry for misunderstanding you! Reading long apologetic threads makes me feel tired and annoyed. That’s why I usually avoid them … and obviously, I didn’t read this one very carefully, although I tried.
I know what it’s like to read long threads. Sometimes I get dizzy and today it’s given me a huge headache.
Or could it just possibly be that Fair Lady’s interpretation (which, BTW we are expected to believe) is wrong??