Are you saying that after you die, you still have the gifts of the spirit listed on 1cor12 such as tongues, healings, wisdom, etc.This is so sad. Do you understand 1 Corinthians 12? If you think the saints are dead, you mock the work of Christ. Christ’s work is about life not death. Satan is death and I’m sure you don’t mean the saints are with him! Hopefully you make this claim in ignorance. If you fully understand, perhaps you can see why this statement is pretty near blasphemous. To say that the saints are dead and not needed is also not scriptural. Specifically:
NKJV
1 Cor 21 And the eye cannot say to the hand, “I have no need of you”; nor again the head to the feet, “I have no need of you.”
Why do you condemn Scripture as false?
The saints’ bodies may be dead but their souls are immortal. We only wait for the body to be resurrected as Jesus promised upon His return. As 1 Cor 12 teaches, we each have gifts and are all connected. Freed from their body, their souls are closer to God than we are.
And Mary is of course the most special saint.
Joe B
Well if one doesn’t believe in the afterlife then yeah I guess it would be like that. However, we’re Christian so we believe in eternal life so we ask those who are more truly alive to pray for us. Again though if one doesn’t believe in eternal life then I’m sure all of this is very confusing.So it is like asking someone who has died to do something for you. Say your dad dies, you ask him to watch over your children or something like that.
Is that what it is like?
It is more like asking someone who has died to ask Jesus to do something for me. I never ask a saint in heaven to “do” anything of their own power. All I ask is that the saint pray to Jesus for me.So it is like asking someone who has died to do something for you. Say your dad dies, you ask him to watch over your children or something like that.
Is that what it is like?
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 (New International Version)I suppose that is fair…it would be reasonable to ask him to pray for their protection.
Suppose I’m on the phone with my dad one day, and I say, “Dad, my son is really struggling at school. Would you keep him in your prayers?” That night my dad dies peacefully in his sleep. There is no reason why I can’t then say, “Dad, you’ve got a better view of the throne now…keep praying for your grandson.”
Make sense?
However, more typically, we pray to saints who have been formally declared to be in heaven already and are more famous.
Hope this helps. :tiphat:
So instead you ask those who you 100% know aren’t in heaven to pray for you? How do you know they’re Christian how do you know they really will do your bidding and pray to the Father?Originally Posted by misslollipops
How do you know where the saints are?
Are you sure that every one of the thousands of saints is in heaven and they can hear your prayers and will do your bidding by bringing your request to the Father?
Can you be 100% sure?
See that verse? How can you dare ask friends, family and church mates to pray for you? How can you put them between you and God?1 Timothy 2:5-6
5For there is one God and one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus, 6who gave himself as a ransom for all men—the testimony given in its proper time.
I’m sure that Solomon thought this to be the case at the time that he wrote it.Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 (New International Version)
5 For the living know that they will die,
but the dead know nothing;
they have no further reward,
and even the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Their love, their hate
and their jealousy have long since vanished;
never again will they have a part
in anything that happens under the sun.
How do you explain this verse from King Solomon, the wisest man who ever lived?
Deuteronomy 18:11-12 (New International Version)It is more like asking someone who has died to ask Jesus to do something for me. I never ask a saint in heaven to “do” anything of their own power. All I ask is that the saint pray to Jesus for me.
Sigh.Deuteronomy 18:11-12 (New International Version)
11 or casts spells, or who is a medium or spiritist or who consults the dead. 12 Anyone who does these things is detestable to the LORD, and because of these detestable practices the LORD your God will drive out those nations before you.
James 5:16 (New King James Version)So instead you ask those who you 100% know aren’t in heaven to pray for you? How do you know they’re Christian how do you know they really will do your bidding and pray to the Father?
Can you be 100% sure?
See that verse? How can you dare ask friends, family and church mates to pray for you? How can you put them between you and God?
Perhaps you forgot that the rich man was not allowed to go back to tell his brothers anythingI’m sure that Solomon thought this to be the case at the time that he wrote it.
However, perhaps you have forgotten Jesus’ parable of Lazarus and the rich man in which the rich man clearly has concern for his brothers who were still alive?
!
Where does it say that after you are dead you can still pray for people?Sigh.
Deuteronomy 18:10-11 Explained
One is an occult practice bent on getting secret information; the other is a humble request for a loved one to pray to God on one’s behalf.
Oh, now you’ve gone and contradicted yourself. Which is it? Can Christian intercede for their brothers and sisters or not? You can’t have it both ways. Either we can or we can’t.James 5:16 (New King James Version)
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16 Confess your trespasses[a] to one another, and pray for one another, that you may be healed. The effective, fervent prayer of a righteous man avails much.
I think it would be much better if misslollipops avoided the Rosary. Given her experience, it would be detrimental to her salvation.It is a relationship thing.
For example, if you regularly smiled at your boss every day, and one day stopped, would it affect your employment status? Not directly no. However your boss may begin to wonder, “Is he looking elsewhere? Is he unhappy? Have I said something? Is he upset with me?” (At least we hope our bosses would wonder…)
The relationship is subtly altered. The mood changed.
If we were to pray the Hail Mary prayer as an act of devotion to Christ and his blessed mother, and then stopped, would that indicate a lessening devotion to Christ? Is it a step away from him? Is it a concern that you are becoming less-Christ -centered?
It depends on your answer as to how it will affect your salvation.
Mary points to Christ. Mary reflects the light of Christ. Without Christ, Mary has no particular significance. Does that make her disposable or irrelevant? By no means! But since Christ DID honor her, we as the body of Christ, the Church, should honor her as our own mother. Becoming closer to Mary will bring us closer to Christ. And that’s all any of us wants, right?
If you were praying to any of those other people, I would say you are breaking the second commandment just the same.
We are to put nothing before God.
Saying 10 hail mary,s Before an ‘our Father’ is putting 10 things before God.
I know I’ve said thousands of hail Marys in my day.
It became rote.
It was so bad that I could be planning my next days breakfast while praying the rosary. My mind would just wander because I didn’t have to even think about what I was saying.
Sure I would count off the beads. But my mind would be elsewhere.
So you don’t believe in eternal life?Where does it say that after you are dead you can still pray for people?
Not at all. However, it is evident that he was concerned and attempted to intercede for them with “Father” Abraham. (So much for “call no man ‘father’”)Perhaps you forgot that the rich man was not allowed to go back to tell his brothers anything
Perhaps you forgot he was in Hell. Interesting distinction though don’t you think?Perhaps you forgot that the rich man was not allowed to go back to tell his brothers anything
Of course we can pray for one another while we are aliveOh, now you’ve gone and contradicted yourself. Which is it? Can Christian intercede for their brothers and sisters or not? You can’t have it both ways. Either we can or we can’t.
ahhhhhhhh the Seventh Day Adventist verse…Of course we can pray for one another while we are alive
Not after we are dead though.
Can you see the difference?
Ecclesiastes 9:5-6 (New King James Version)
5 For the living know that they will die;
But the dead know nothing,
And they have no more reward,
For the memory of them is forgotten.
6 Also their love, their hatred, and their envy have now perished;
Nevermore will they have a share
In anything done under the sun.