Praying the rosary at Mass

[Melchior_1]

Don’t know. Just know that praying the rosary, meditating on Christ and joining that prayer to the prayers offered by the Priest at the Holy sacrifice of the Mass in the EF was an acceptable practice. I’m sorry if you can’t deal with that but, it really is your problem.

Thank you for using past tense, as that means that although it used to be that way, it’s very possible that things have changed since then.

Oh, all what Pope Paul VI did was start the renewal of the religious and an incredible landmark encyclical. Plus being an expert in Canon Law.

You haven’t addressed the “Orans” question, I wouldn’t mind if you did.

I am finding it interesting that people whom we would ordinarily see as liturgical hardliners are advocating doing something other than fully paying attention during the liturgy.

 

[Melchior_1]

RELIGIOUS ALERT:

I’m reading a commentary on the Rule of Augustine. The author begins to say that there are two benefits to the Rule.

1. The Rule keeps us from re-inventing our day. Makes sense, right?
2. The Rule keeps us from thinking about life.

He goes on to describe that the ideal is to no longer being thinking of the non-essential things. Example; chanting LOTH in Latin. When you first start, you’re thinking “here I am, chanting in Latin!”. But eventually, due to continual use and living by the Rule, you will no longer be thinking about the Latin, the LOTH, turning the pages, reading, what’s going on around you. This frees up your mind and heart to focus on the Lord, and be receptive to His voice.

In this sense, if we take an Augustinian point of view on Rules, I can understand how people could be able to handle the Rosary during Mass.

But hey, y’all are secular folks who won’t be joining secular orders or become consecrated… So the above isn’t applicable.

…right?



(I’m being sarcastic and trying to be funny).

 

[TrueLight]

(I’m being sarcastic and trying to be funny).

Good effort!

 

[ConstantineTG]

I am finding it interesting that people whom we would ordinarily see as liturgical hardliners are advocating doing something other than fully paying attention during the liturgy.

 

[Melchior_1]

Good effort!

I specifically had you in mind when I wrote that

Seriously though, the Augustinian approach is interesting. If you go to enough Masses enough times with enough of the right mindset and enough of the needed heart and enough of the investment and immerse yourself enough, in theory all the externals and non-essential things will no longer affect you.

Just you and Jesus.

That sounds so ideal, so wonderful. What are the odds we can reach that level?

 

[curlycool89]

Don’t know. Just know that praying the rosary, meditating on Christ and joining that prayer to the prayers offered by the Priest at the Holy sacrifice of the Mass in the EF was an acceptable practice. I’m sorry if you can’t deal with that but, it really is your problem.

Uh, “that’s your problem” is a response I usually hear if I’m discussing something with a person who’s a relativist. I’m guessing you’re not because Catholics are usually not relativists. Do you have an objective reason to give?

But again with my other question, why is the rosary ok while other devotions are not?

But hey, y’all are secular folks who won’t be joining secular orders or become consecrated… So the above isn’t applicable.

…right?



(I’m being sarcastic and trying to be funny).

Buuut Melchior, we’re not talking about Religious here! We’re just talking about secular lay non-religious Catholics here. Geeeeeez.

And just to be clear, I’m only bringing this up because we’ve seen it on several other threads in this sub-forum when we bring up how they do things in Religious life. And usually, the response is “we’re not religious, so your example is not relevant”. One example.

Being serious now, I think what Augustine would say though is that your internal meditations should be on the Mass: the sacrifice, the actions, preparing to receive Jesus in the Eucharist (although in the Middle Ages it might have been more on whether or not you watered the cattle enough this morning and where they should be grazing, or what you should do with your sick oxen).

 

[ConstantineTG]

I specifically had you in mind when I wrote that

Seriously though, the Augustinian approach is interesting. If you go to enough Masses enough times with enough of the right mindset and enough of the needed heart and enough of the investment and immerse yourself enough, in theory all the externals and non-essential things will no longer affect you.

Just you and Jesus.

That sounds so ideal, so wonderful. As a layman, I can try to make it work in that way…but I doubt it. And I think that’s a part of why people don’t like the idea of Rosary during Mass; what are the odds we can reach that level?

Sounds like Heschayasm

 

[Melchior_1]

Being serious now, I think what Augustine would say though is that your internal meditations should be on the Mass: the sacrifice, the actions, preparing to receive Jesus in the Eucharist (although in the Middle Ages it might have been more on whether or not you watered the cattle enough this morning and where they should be grazing, or what you should do with your sick oxen).

See, I think Augustine would argue that praying the Rosary enough, you can hit the auto-pilot when it because rote. When that happens, you could conceivably pray it during Mass as you’re not actually full aware that you’re praying the Rosary, due to the contemplative state you’re reaching.

But once you reach that stage with the Rosary, what becomes of Mass, and can you still invest in Mass while in this state?

It’s an interesting question.

 

[Melchior_1]

Sounds like Heschayasm

VERY interesting! I only know about it through Augustine.

 

[ConstantineTG]

VERY interesting! I only know about it through Augustine.

Also with heschayasm, its possible that even lay people to achieve it. After all from the Eastern praxis, all are called to become monastics. Thing is, its not a replacement for the Divine Liturgy, so I don’t know why the Rosary can be prayed in place of following the Mass.

 

[Melchior_1]

Also with heschayasm, its possible that even lay people to achieve it. After all from the Eastern praxis, all are called to become monastics. Thing is, its not a replacement for the Divine Liturgy, so I don’t know why the Rosary can be prayed in place of following the Mass.

This makes sense. Dominicans are mendicants who follow the Rule of Augustine, but they actually have a monastic streak in them. It’s possible all who subscribe to Augustine think this way.

 

[Mike30]

To all of those who seem to be genuinely offended and aghast at the practice, I say, if someone wants to do it, pray the Rosary during Mass, why is that such a problem, threat and a bother to others? To me it seems very inoffensive and in the grand scheme of things not terribly important. I know that the Church discourages it, but the Church discourages and outright outlaws things that many Catholics do on a daily basis.

Stop being judgemental and holier than thou. If people do it fine. It really doesn’t concern you.

 

[Melchior_1]

To all of those who seem to be genuinely offended and aghast at the practice,** I say, if someone wants to do it, pray the Rosary during Mass, why is that such a problem, threat and a bother to others? To me it seems very inoffensive and in the grand scheme of things not terribly important. ** I know that the Church discourages it, but the Church discourages and outright outlaws things that many Catholics do on a daily basis.

Stop being judgemental and holier than thou. If people do it fine. It really doesn’t concern you.

I’ll remember this the next time someone complains about;

• Orans posture.
• Holding hands during the Our Father.
• Writing in a prayer journal.
• Receiving the Eucharist on the tongue and/or standing.

 

[mick321]

I’ll remember this the next time someone complains about;

• Orans posture.
• Holding hands during the Our Father.
• Writing in a prayer journal.
• Receiving the Eucharist on the tongue and/or standing.

Who cares if someone does any of these things? These are all common practices in the Ordinary Form of the Mass. Learn to take them in stride, or learn to assist the EF.

Have you ever seen a Catholic bishop, priest or deacon interfere, disrupt or rebuke someone for praying the rosary in Mass? If not, then it’s ALLOWED. And that’s that.

So have some respect. Next time you see someone in Mass - silently handling a rosary - say a prayer of thanksgiving that he is NOT making a spectacle of himself. And offer your prayer silently - to avoid disturbing him - for the glory of God.

 

[TrueLight]

Buuut Melchior, we’re not talking about Religious here! We’re just talking about secular lay non-religious Catholics here. Geeeeeez.

Amusing.

I don’t feel strongly about it either way. A lot of the advocates are busy/sleeping, but they will be back. So have a field day in the meanwhile.

 

[GaryTaylor]

what’s going on around you. This frees up your mind and heart to focus on the Lord, and be receptive to His voice.

Participation in the Mass.

“The food strenghtens little or much according to the desire of the recipient, whether one receives sacramentally or virually. You receive sacramentally when you actually communicate with the sacrament. You receive virtually when you communicate both by desire of Communion. and by contemplation, as it were sacramentally, with the affection of love, which is to taste in the blood, as the soul sees was shed through love.”
Catherine of Siena

However, this is how “all” comtemplative meditative prayer should at some point work. As far as the Mass, as I mentioned, I just don’t pray during Mass.

Peace

 

[agnes_therese]

So have some respect. Next time you see someone in Mass - silently handling a rosary - say a prayer of thanksgiving that he is NOT making a spectacle of himself. And offer your prayer silently - to avoid disturbing him - for the glory of God.

And also pray that they will learn to value the Mass enough to keep their full attention on it.

 

[GaryTaylor]

And also pray that they will learn to value the Mass enough to keep their full attention on it.

That would be the idea IMHO

 

[JustaServant]

CCC 1141:
The celebrating assembly [the liturgy] is the community of the baptized who, “by regeneration and the anointing of the Holy Spirit, are consecrated to be a spiritual house and a holy priesthood, that through all the works of Christian men they may offer spiritual sacrifices.” This “common priesthood” is that of Christ the sole priest, in which all his members participate
That is why the new translations says “Pray, brethren, that my sacrifice and yours may be acceptable to God the Almighty Father”.

I beleive you are taking the words of the CCC and making it say something it is not.
No one is denying the privilege or the assembled Church to unite ourselves with Christ in offering His Sacrifice ourselves with Him.
However it is to priest alone to make God the Son present upon the Altar of Sacrifice. It is entrusted to the priest alone to utter the words of consecration, whether the TLM or the Novus Ordo. To imply (as I hope you are not) that the people themselves can make the Sacrifice present comes dangerously close to a Protestant concept. Nowhere in the CCC does it imply an ordained Catholic priest is now a Protestant “president” or “presider” over a “communal meal”.

 

[TrueLight]

And also pray that they will learn to value the Mass enough to keep their full attention on it.

I’d say that’s a good prayer for everyone.

The low mass actually affords lots of time for prayer. When I attend a low mass, I don’t usually sit towards the front, so I’m not likely to hear much. Therefore, sometimes I am following along in my missal and sometimes I am praying for my intentions or praying for greater union with God. While I am doing that, my eyes are focused on what is happening in the sanctuary.

Therefore, in that case, I do not see why it would be wrong to be praying the Rosary while one’s eyes is focusing on what is happening in the sanctuary or why it would be particularly distracting.