Praying to Mary

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Homer. Paul himself said people should pray for others:

“First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth” (1 Tim. 2:1–4).
 
Montanaman when people who are ALIVE pray together they are not playing the role of a mediator. But when you pray for a dead person you are considering him as a mediator and thus denying that there is only one mediator.
 
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homer:
BobCatholic (How else are we to ask Mary to pray for us?) it’s wrong and YOU DON’T NEED to ask Mary to pray for you because there is one God, and ONE MEDIATOR between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. (1 Timothy: 5). Isn’t Jesus the ONLY mediator good enough for you?
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homer,

And just who are all those other mediators? Members of the Body of Christ, in Christ, the one mediator. “For the prayer of a righteous man (or woman in Christ) availeth much.”

A Catholic Answers Tract puts it this way

"One Mediator

Another charge commonly levelled against asking the saints for their intercession is that this violates the sole mediatorship of Christ, which Paul discusses: “For there is one God, and there is one mediator between God and men, the man Christ Jesus” (1 Tim. 2:5).

But asking one person to pray for you in no way violates Christ’s mediatorship, as can be seen from considering the way in which Christ is a meditor. First, Christ is a unique mediator between man and God because he is the only person who is both God and man. He is the only bridge between the two, the only God-man. But that role as mediator is not compromised in the least by the fact that others intercede for us. Furthermore, Christ is a unique mediator between God and man because he is the Mediator of the New Covenant (Heb. 9:15, 12:24), just as Moses was the mediator (Greek mesites) of the Old Covenant (Gal. 3:19–20).

The intercession of fellow Christians—which is what the saints in heaven are—also clearly does not interfere with Christ’s unique mediatorship because in the four verses immediately preceding 1 Timothy 2:5, Paul says that Christians should interceed: “First of all, then, I urge that supplications, prayers, intercessions, and thanksgivings be made for all men, for kings and all who are in high positions, that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way. This is good, and pleasing to God our Savior, who desires all men to be saved and to come to the knowledge of the truth” (1 Tim. 2:1–4). Clearly, then, intercessory prayers offered by Christians on behalf of others something “good and pleasing to God,” not something infringing on Christ’s role as mediator."

catholic.com/library/praying_to_the_saints.asp
 
Emmaus those people who are asked to pray, are they dead or alive? Do you see someone mentioning the need to pray for dead people?
 
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homer:
Montanaman when people who are ALIVE pray together they are not playing the role of a mediator. But when you pray for a dead person you are considering him as a mediator and thus denying that there is only one mediator.
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Mary is alive.
Moses is alive.
The saints are alive.

Jesus Christ is the Way and the Truth. None come to the Father but by Him. That is how He is the sole mediator.

Mary and the communion of saints are subordinate to Jesus, but through His grace and His merits, they are allowed to cooperate with His plan of salvation, and so are we allowed if we pick up our cross and follow Him.

Not only is Jesus God of the living, he also is not a lonely God. He surrounds Himself with His mother, angels, saints for His glory. “Give us our daily bread” Does this sound like a God who does not want us all to cooperate in the salvific plan together?

From the cross he gave humanity His mother. When soldiers are wounded they often cry out to whom? Their mother. This is about love. Love asks us to empty ourselves for God and for our neighbor. How much more can Christ’s plan be made more clear that we are a community before God? Love is a communial emotion, not alone. The Trinity trumpets the Truth of communal love.

Of course we should pray for one another and pray to our spiritual mother and the saints in heaven to intercede for us and our loved ones. Of course we should worship God and God alone.

Both truths are beautiful and complimentary. I hope this helped.

Peace and God bless you.
 
MichaelTDoyle you didn’t answer my question about mentioning dead people. And what do you mean by saying Mary and Mosses are alive?
 
I isolated this text from Emaus above for you:
Catholics believe in the “communion of saints.” That is we believe that God is the God of the living (Matt 22:32), and that all those who are in Christ are alive in him even after physical death. In a sense after they die they are with Him in an even deeper and intimate sense than we are here on earth. But still Jesus, is the vine and we are all the branches on earth heaven that trust in Him and obey (John 15:1-10).

I hope this helped.

Peace,
Mike
 
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homer:
Emmaus those people who are asked to pray, are they dead or alive? Do you see someone mentioning the need to pray for dead people?
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2 Mc 12, 43:
In doing this he acted in a very excellent and noble way, in as much as he had the resurrection of the dead in view, 44 for if it were not expecting the fallen to rise again, it would have been useless and foolish to pray for them in death. 45 But if he did this with a view to the splendid reward that awaits those who have gone to their rest in godliness, it was a holy and pious thought. 46 Thus he made atonement for the dead that they might be freed from sin.
 
La Chiara:
Centurion–Are you here on this forum to learn and understand? Do you come with an open mind and heart? Or do you come to incite and inflame, and seek to convert to your non-Catholic way?
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Although I haven’t read any posts of his so far that indicate a desire to “come to incite and inflame,” if you have a quarrel with your brother in Christ’s conduct, I believe there is a Scriptural approach to settling such disputes.

-M
 
Emmaus, you rock. Anyway, I think that we need to remeber what a mediator is anyway. Webster: “one who resolves a dispute between two or more parties; one who acts as the agent of reconciliation.” Whoa there, Hoss. A mediator is not someone who carries messages (intermediary), but one who brokers a treaty. IN Christ’s case, the one who acted as the agent of reconciliation between God and man, the one who sealed the New Covinant and in so doing saved us. Please do not sell Christ short and make him just an errand boy. That is why the saints are so important, and the BMV is prime amongst them. Jesus is the ultimate Nobel Peace Prize winner!

Now I am ready for a deluge of harassment…
 
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homer:
And what do you mean by saying Mary and Mosses are alive?
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Christ Himself said so

Mark 12

26Now about the dead rising–have you not read in the book of Moses, in the account of the bush, how God said to him, ‘I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’ ? 27He is not the God of the dead, but of the living. You are badly mistaken!"

Your statement would imply
  1. You deny that the God of Moses and of Mary is the God of the living and not the dead?
  2. You saying that Moses and Mary do not reside with God (contrary to Matt 17 and Luke 1:48)
  3. That there is a person’s life ceases after bodily death, instead of it just being a transition to everlasting life or eternal death?.
Which is it Homer?
 
Do Catholics pray to Mary?

Centurion,

Yes they do.

The verb “to pray” means to entreat, to implore or to humbly request. It comes from the Latin precari, which means the same thing.

You can see it being used in Shakespears Hamlet

CLAUDIUS: I pray thee Horatio, follow him.

Now who exactly is Claudius praying to here? It’s Horatio! He’s imploring Horatio to follow after Hamlet.

My 6 year old prayed to me just the other night. I believe the prayer went something along the lines of " Can I PLEEEASE stay up late tonight??"

That was a prayer too! My son entreated me for a later bedtime. My son prayed to me.

Most Protestants have forgotten that prayer is a request and we do it every day to each other. They think the verb means some kind of worship, which it is not.

Like my son, I pray to my Mother for certain things, namely to pray\entreat\implore to God on my behalf now and at the hour of my death.

Unlike my son’s prayer, this is a request that is good for me and is both pleasing to the Father and in line with His Will for us. Faith tells me that my request will be granted. God the Father will allow Mary to hear my request and, through her Son, our mediator, will pray for me to the Lord our God.
 
Another approach to understand praying to Mary is to understand how the Davidic Kingdom worked.
specifically 1 Kings 2:20.
 
Tyler Smedley:
You are right to say that we pray to mary but wrong to assume that our prayer stops there. Praying to mary is no different than praying to another christian on earth, but that Mary is with God in heaven and has bibical proof that her intercession works. Take the wedding feast at cannan for example a request was made by Mary to Jesus and it ended in him preforming his fist public Miracle.
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I would also like to point out that Jesus was not ready to perform a miracle but** He did it because his MOTHER asked him to.**
 
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homer:
BobCatholic (How else are we to ask Mary to pray for us?) it’s wrong and YOU DON’T NEED to ask Mary to pray for you because there is one God, and ONE MEDIATOR between God and men, the man Christ Jesus. (1 Timothy: 5). Isn’t Jesus the ONLY mediator good enough for you?
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Forgive me, but it’s not “wrong”.

Cake doesn’t need icing either but it sure is nice to have.

Yes, Jesus certainly is good enough for me and that’s why I think so highly of His mother!!!

Homer and Centurion, when I say my rosary, I will include you in my prayers.
 
From Lumen Gentium,

*"… in suffering with Him as He died on the cross, she cooperated in the work of the Savior, in an altogether singular way, by obedience, faith, hope, and burning love, to restore supernatural life to souls. As a result she is our Mother in the order of grace.

This motherhood of Mary in the economy of grace lasts without interruption, from the consent which she gave in faith at the annunciation, and which she unhesitatingly bore with under the cross, even to the perpetual consummation of all the elect. For after being assumed into heaven, she has not put aside this saving function, but by her manifold intercession, she continues to win the gifts of eternal salvation for us. By her motherly love, she takes care of the brothers of her Son who are still in pilgrimage and in dangers and difficulties, until they be led through to the happy fatherland. For this reason, the Blessed Virgin is invoked in the Church under the titles of Advocate, Auxiliatrix, Adiutrix, and Mediatrix. This however it to be so understood that it takes nothing away, or adds nothing to the dignity and efficacy of Christ the one Mediator. For no creature can ever be put on the same level with the Incarnate Word and Redeemer…" *
 
If you are catholic, then is it wrong not to pray to Mary? What if you prefer just to pray directly to God?
 
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jesusfreak77:
If you are catholic, then is it wrong not to pray to Mary? What if you prefer just to pray directly to God?
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Firstly, Catholics do not pray to Mary, in the manner you most likely see it. I think you should have gotten to that if you followed the discussion.

I don’t think there is anything wrong with not asking for intercession from Mary and the communion of Saints, but why avoid it? Why not do both?

Thanks
Andrew.

P.S. Guys I usually just like to read the discussions and not comment on it, so I am a newbie in some ways. If I am mistaken in what I said, please inform me.
 
Catholics worship God we ask others to pray for us through prayer.

The difference is historically prayer has not been equated with worship until fairly recently. Some Christians now understand the word prayer with worship, since Catholics come from an understanding much older than that they have a different definition. We do not equate prayer with worship, prayer can just be asking, this can be understood by remembering old English phrases such as “pray tell”.

If Catholics say they do not worship others than God then you should believe them as they are stating their beliefs.

(if a Bible Christian told me he believed in Jesus as his saviour and I told him no you don’t, it would be the same thing)

We do not worship Mary or any of the other saints, we do believe that there is life after death and the saints are living in Christ. Just as heaven rejoices, they know what is going on here on earth. Not because they are all powerful but only through the power of God who is all powerful.

God Bless
Scylla
 
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