praying to virgin mary and the saints

[Brother2]

rinnie;5447900:

lol your are funny. I know who the 24 are but where are they called saints in heaven. When Paul wrote his epistles was he writing them to those who are in heaven or those believers who are alive on earth. I wasn’t sure if you knew who was the Lamb of God. He is the one who we pray too. Yes we can intercede for each other but not those who are in the presence of God.

Very true freedomwriter. And besides that most of the saints are dead, so is the virgin Mary, laying in their graves awaiting the resurection at the second coming of our Lord. Some saints are in heaven, Enoch walked into heaven, Elijah was taken up in a firey chariot, and Moses was resurected as an example of those who would rise again. Some saints were resurected along with our Lord and went to heaven with Him.

Spiritualism teaches that the soul lives on after death and this has been sown into the Christian Church by Satan the arch deceiver. The soul that sinneth it shall die the Bible says. Only God is immortal. Until we are given eternal life at the second coming of Christ.

Yes, preaching the Gospel to the unsaved is the most important activity for Christians, although we Protestants have to protest against Rome you know, the error that was sown into the Church in the early centuries by Satan the arch deceiver and has even been inherited by many of the Protestant Churches. That is one reason why there are so many Protestant Churches…each new one trying to remove the errors sown by Satan into the Christian Church.

Many Protestant Churches stopped where their founders stopped…it is better to be a Movement continually searching the Scriptures for Truth.

Rome claims to be ‘the one true church’, this is a big claim to make, also the Scriptures as interpreted by Rome, or by the Church Fathers, no no no, they cannot claim that for it is not true…even though I respect every Roman Catholic that they sincerely believe these things, and I believe God honours those who live up to the light that they have…I also agree with many of the Roman Catholic beliefs…

Once again Brother I appreciate you views and agree that the most important activity is not arguing between ourselves but preaching the Gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ, Crucified and the wonderful Good News that He rose from the grave…death was defeated by our Saviour so that we to can rise again from the grave at His second coming, which is not long away, world events prove that, signs of the times according to the Bible.

I am well aware that my Church comes under much criticism and has done on this forum, and that is privilege of the forum, especially a Roman Catholic Forum…

However, tide and time, events that are going to happen in our world when Church and State get together again and persecution starts up again in the West, many Christians are already being persecuted in many countries right now and we need to pray for them because our turn is approaching…give Rome half a chance and the stake could be set up again…ha I will probably be one of the first to be burned…a heretic on this Forum protesting against the errors of Rome…

Anyway enough! I repeat I respect all Christians including Roman Catholic Christians and we should all be preaching the Gospel of Good News to a dying world!!

Shalom. May God bless all here. Michael.

 

[Selene]

rinnie;5447900:

lol your are funny. I know who the 24 are but where are they called saints in heaven. When Paul wrote his epistles was he writing them to those who are in heaven or those believers who are alive on earth.

If you believe that the saints are only those on earth, then the prayers that the 24 Elders were carrying to God in Heaven were the prayers of the saints on earth.

Revelations 5:8-9 Before him and with them, the 24 elders; each one of them was holding a harp and had a golden bowl full of incesnse mad eof the prayers of the saints.

The angels were also carrying the prayers of the saints on the earth as shown in Revelations.

Revelations 8:4 A large quantity of incense was given to him to offer with the prayeers of all the saints on the golden altar that stood in front of the throne, and so from the angel’s hand the smoke of the incense went up in the presence of God and with it the prayers of the saints.

rinnie;5447900:

Yes we can intercede for each other but not those who are in the presence of God.

And what makes you think that those who are in God’s presence cannot intercede at all? Do you not know that God is love and that His love exists also in Heaven? If people on earth can love each other to pray for each other, then people in Heaven can also love to pray for us as well. After all, love is more perfect in Heaven than on earth. The fact that the 24 Elders and the angels are able to carry the prayers of the saints to God is already evidence that our prayers of intercessions are being carried to God by those 24 Elders (who we believe are Holy Saints) and even by the angels.

 

[Selene]

The pope is a Christian leader just like the leader of the Baptists or the leader of any church…but he is not The leader of the Christian Church…our Lord Jesus Christ is the Leader of the Christian Church and the Rock on which the Christian Church is built…Scripture as interpreted by Rome is wrong there and as Protestants protesting against the errors in the Roman Catholic Church we have every right to believe that!

I can hear them getting the stake ready for me…

Shalom. May God bless all here. Michael.

Hello Brother2,

Actually, the Pope is not just the leader of the Catholic Church. He is also a Head of State just like the Prime Minister of Israel and President of the United States. The leader of the Baptist Church is not even a Head of State. Unlike the Pope, he doesn’t have a country to rule. Vatican City is considered a nation and the Pope is the Head of State.

You may not believe that the Catholic Church is the true Church that Christ created, but we believe it. Throughout the Bible, God has always shown His power by choosing the weak, the poor, the lowly and even the worst sinner. St. Paul was a murderer of Christians, and he was chosen by God. God chose Abraham, who was an elderly man with no children, and made Him the Father of many nations. Through His power, we see that Sarah, who was a barren woman, bear a child because only God has the power to give life to a dead womb just as only God have the power to make an elderly man like Abraham become the Father of many nations. God also chose a shepherd boy with no military skills defeat Goliath and even turn this shepherd boy into a king. Only God has the power to do this. God also chose a group of slaves to come out of Egypt and turn them into a nation because only God can do this. It was Moses said to this group of slaves, “I will count you a kingdom of priests, a consecreated nation.” (Exodus 19:6). And this prophecy came true. The group of slaves did become the nation of Israel. In the same way, St. Peter said a similar thing to the Church before he was executed in Rome. St. Peter said, “you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a consecrated nation” (1 Peter 2:9). And of all the Christian denomination, only the Catholic Church fulfilled this prophecy. The Pope is a Head of State of a nation. Only God has the power to turn a group of slaves, whom He chose as His own people, into a nation and only God has the power to also turn His chosen church into a nation.

You are correct that the Catholic Church was not perfect. It has sinned just like the chosen people of Israel. God never chose the righteous,the wealthy, the perfect or the strong. He chooses the weak, the lowly, the poor, and even the worst sinner because it is through these that His power is shown. Only God can turn a group of slaves into a nation, and only God can turn a church of sinners into many saints.

Peace be with you,
Selene

 

[Reuben_J]

…

Many Protestant Churches stopped where their founders stopped…it is better to be a Movement continually searching the Scriptures for Truth.

…

Shalom. May God bless all here. Michael.

Is that Movement Seventh Day Adventist?

 

[Tanner9188]

Hello Brother2,

Actually, the Pope is not just the leader of the Catholic Church. He is also a Head of State just like the Prime Minister of Israel and President of the United States. The leader of the Baptist Church is not even a Head of State. Unlike the Pope, he doesn’t have a country to rule. Vatican City is considered a nation and the Pope is the Head of State.

You may not believe that the Catholic Church is the true Church that Christ created, but we believe it. Throughout the Bible, God has always shown His power by choosing the weak, the poor, the lowly and even the worst sinner. St. Paul was a murderer of Christians, and he was chosen by God. God chose Abraham, who was an elderly man with no children, and made Him the Father of many nations. Through His power, we see that Sarah, who was a barren woman, bear a child because only God has the power to give life to a dead womb just as only God have the power to make an elderly man like Abraham become the Father of many nations. God also chose a shepherd boy with no military skills defeat Goliath and even turn this shepherd boy into a king. Only God has the power to do this. God also chose a group of slaves to come out of Egypt and turn them into a nation because only God can do this. It was Moses said to this group of slaves, “I will count you a kingdom of priests, a consecreated nation.” (Exodus 19:6). And this prophecy came true. The group of slaves did become the nation of Israel. In the same way, St. Peter said a similar thing to the Church before he was executed in Rome. St. Peter said, “you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a consecrated nation” (1 Peter 2:9). And of all the Christian denomination, only the Catholic Church fulfilled this prophecy. The Pope is a Head of State of a nation. Only God has the power to turn a group of slaves, whom He chose as His own people, into a nation and only God has the power to also turn His chosen church into a nation.

You are correct that the Catholic Church was not perfect. It has sinned just like the chosen people of Israel. God never chose the righteous,the wealthy, the perfect or the strong. He chooses the weak, the lowly, the poor, and even the worst sinner because it is through these that His power is shown. Only God can turn a group of slaves into a nation, and only God can turn a church of sinners into many saints.

Peace be with you,
Selene

Is the Pope considered an apostle? If so; where is it stated in Catholic theology? it is off topic; but I was just wondering.

 

[Selene]

Is the Pope considered an apostle? If so; where is it stated in Catholic theology? it is off topic; but I was just wondering.

Hello Tanner,

The word “Apostle” which is used in the New Testament means the 12 special disciples chosen by Christ. However, the Bible also mentions three other Apostles besides the 12: Mattias (Acts 1:21-26) and Paul and Barnabas (Acts 9:15; 13:2-4). Therefore, there are 15 Apostles altogether. The Pope is not called an Apostle, but he can be called an “apostolic” person, because he is the successor of the Apostle Peter and is united with the Apostles of Christ.

When Christ told the Apostles to go out and spread the gospel to all the nations (Matthew 28:19), it became obvious to the apostles that they would not be able to spread the gospel to everyone in the entire world because 1) there were only a few of them and 2) they cannot live forever. Therefore, the apostles prepared other men to share in their ministry and to succeed them after they died. The New Testament shows us how “apostolic” authority was passed on.

2 Timothy 2:2 …and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust [hand on (parathou)] to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.

I hope this answers your question.

Peace be with you,
Selene

 

[Tanner9188]

Hello Tanner,

The word “Apostle” which is used in the New Testament means the 12 special disciples chosen by Christ. However, the Bible also mentions three other Apostles besides the 12: Mattias (Acts 1:21-26) and Paul and Barnabas (Acts 9:15; 13:2-4). Therefore, there are 15 Apostles altogether. The Pope is not called an Apostle, but he can be called an “apostolic” person, because he is the successor of the Apostle Peter and is united with the Apostles of Christ.

When Christ told the Apostles to go out and spread the gospel to all the nations (Matthew 28:19), it became obvious to the apostles that they would not be able to spread the gospel to everyone in the entire world because 1) there were only a few of them and 2) they cannot live forever. Therefore, the apostles prepared other men to share in their ministry and to succeed them after they died. The New Testament shows us how “apostolic” authority was passed on.

2 Timothy 2:2 …and what you have heard from me before many witnesses entrust [hand on (parathou)] to faithful men who will be able to teach others also.

I hope this answers your question.

Peace be with you,
Selene

Thanks Selene, is their a Catholic reference to the “Pope” , which says he can be addressed as an “apostolic” person? I looked on the NewAdvent site but was unable to find anything in that regards, but I am not well informed concerning the searching on Catholic sites.

 

[Brother2]

Hello Brother2,

Actually, the Pope is not just the leader of the Catholic Church. He is also a Head of State just like the Prime Minister of Israel and President of the United States. The leader of the Baptist Church is not even a Head of State. Unlike the Pope, he doesn’t have a country to rule. Vatican City is considered a nation and the Pope is the Head of State.

You may not believe that the Catholic Church is the true Church that Christ created, but we believe it. Throughout the Bible, God has always shown His power by choosing the weak, the poor, the lowly and even the worst sinner. St. Paul was a murderer of Christians, and he was chosen by God. God chose Abraham, who was an elderly man with no children, and made Him the Father of many nations. Through His power, we see that Sarah, who was a barren woman, bear a child because only God has the power to give life to a dead womb just as only God have the power to make an elderly man like Abraham become the Father of many nations. God also chose a shepherd boy with no military skills defeat Goliath and even turn this shepherd boy into a king. Only God has the power to do this. God also chose a group of slaves to come out of Egypt and turn them into a nation because only God can do this. It was Moses said to this group of slaves, “I will count you a kingdom of priests, a consecreated nation.” (Exodus 19:6). And this prophecy came true. The group of slaves did become the nation of Israel. In the same way, St. Peter said a similar thing to the Church before he was executed in Rome. St. Peter said, “you are a chosen race, a royal priesthood, a consecrated nation” (1 Peter 2:9). And of all the Christian denomination, only the Catholic Church fulfilled this prophecy. The Pope is a Head of State of a nation. Only God has the power to turn a group of slaves, whom He chose as His own people, into a nation and only God has the power to also turn His chosen church into a nation.

You are correct that the Catholic Church was not perfect. It has sinned just like the chosen people of Israel. God never chose the righteous,the wealthy, the perfect or the strong. He chooses the weak, the lowly, the poor, and even the worst sinner because it is through these that His power is shown. Only God can turn a group of slaves into a nation, and only God can turn a church of sinners into many saints.

Peace be with you,
Selene

Ah Sister Selene good to hear your views, not just views of course…a chosen race a royal priest hood, I believe this includes all Christians not just Roman Catholic Christians?

The Pope the head of a country, yes indeed the smallest country in the world, a wonderful manouver made many moons ago, lost it of course in 1798 when Gen Berthier invaded and took the Pope prisoner for over a hundred years (the deadly wound?)until the Vatican was restored in early 20th Century, I forget all the details now but that is the basics.
Not getting at you now just repeating what I know and remember, I visited the Vatican 3 times and found it fascinating, the history comes alive, modern and history combined…well any way yes a leader of a State founded on one of the seven hills of Rome, and begged and borrowed much of the building materials from ancient Rome…just my opinion now but a very clever manouver made many years ago…

I agree with all the Bible stories you mentioned all very true, but the fallen archangel Lucifer, Satan the archdeceiver also has not been idle, whether in the Jewish ‘Church’ or our Christian Church, his work has caused the fragmentation of the Christian Church, making it difficult for ordinary people to know what is Truth…Truth of course is in our Lord Jesus and His Word…but the archdeceiver has distorted it all in so many fragmented parts of the Christian Church, you could agree with much of that I think, from you perspective and me from mine…

So I respect you Selene and honour you knowledge and what we are doing is sharing knowledge which may come in handy in the future, especially in the last days of this world before our Lord returns, knowledge is power (more important of course is our relationship with our Lord) when various events may happen according to Scripture prophecy…however it turns out, your way or mine??

So Shalom and may God bless all here. Michael.

PS> A movement being SDA Church, is one but maybe the your Church is also a movement? Learning and moving on from the mistakes of past and recent scandels too which I will not mention, we are all human and make mistakes and sin…so my point is maybe your Church is a ‘movement’ too??

 

[jlhargus]

Thanks Selene, is their a Catholic reference to the “Pope” , which says he can be addressed as an “apostolic” person? I looked on the NewAdvent site but was unable to find anything in that regards, but I am not well informed concerning the searching on Catholic sites.

JL: [Act1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his BISHOPRICK let another take.]

All the bishops of the Church can properly be called apostle, as that is the office to which they succeed by laying of of hands in an unbroken line from the twelve to the present and will continue till the end. However that term has by tradition been used commonly only for the twelve.

[Eph4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 FOR THE PERFECTING OF THE SAINTS, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 THAT WE henceforth BE NO MORE CHILDREN, TOSSED TO AND FRO, and carried about WITH EVERY WIND OF DOCTRINE, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom THE WHOLE BODY FITLY JOINED TOGETHER AND COMPACTED by that which EVERY JOINT SUPPLIETH, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh INCREASE OF THE BODY unto the edifying of itself in love.]

 

[Tanner9188]

JL: [Act1:20 For it is written in the book of Psalms, Let his habitation be desolate, and let no man dwell therein: and his BISHOPRICK let another take.]

All the bishops of the Church can properly be called apostle, as that is the office to which they succeed by laying of of hands in an unbroken line from the twelve to the present and will continue till the end. However that term has by tradition been used commonly only for the twelve.

[Eph4:11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers; 12 FOR THE PERFECTING OF THE SAINTS, for the work of the ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ: 13 Till we all come in the unity of the faith, and of the knowledge of the Son of God, unto a perfect man, unto the measure of the stature of the fulness of Christ: 14 THAT WE henceforth BE NO MORE CHILDREN, TOSSED TO AND FRO, and carried about WITH EVERY WIND OF DOCTRINE, by the sleight of men, and cunning craftiness, whereby they lie in wait to deceive; 15 But speaking the truth in love, may grow up into him in all things, which is the head, even Christ: 16 From whom THE WHOLE BODY FITLY JOINED TOGETHER AND COMPACTED by that which EVERY JOINT SUPPLIETH, according to the effectual working in the measure of every part, maketh INCREASE OF THE BODY unto the edifying of itself in love.]

Is that apostle with a little “a” or capital “A”? There is a difference…right?

 

[Selene]

Ah Sister Selene good to hear your views, not just views of course…a chosen race a royal priest hood, I believe this includes all Christians not just Roman Catholic Christians?

Dear Brother2,

I am sorry, but Christ only built one church. He did not build thousands of different churches. He only built one church and that one church became a nation. As I pointed out, St. Peter made a similar prophecy as Moses did when he addressed a group of Hebrew slaves out of Egypt. The only one who fulfilled that prophecy was the Catholic Church because it is the only Church that Christ built. The Baptist or even the SDA are not a nation and none of their leaders are considered a Head of State.

Peace be with you,
Selene

 

[Selene]

Thanks Selene, is their a Catholic reference to the “Pope” , which says he can be addressed as an “apostolic” person? I looked on the NewAdvent site but was unable to find anything in that regards, but I am not well informed concerning the searching on Catholic sites.

Hello Tanner,

I found a Catholic site which refers to Pope of Rome as “Domnus Apostolicus.” According to the website:

Hence also the title Apostolicus, formerly applied to bishops and metropolitans, was gradually restricted to the Pope of Rome, the Domnus Apostolicus, who still figures in the Litany of the Saints at the head of the ecclesiastical hierarchy. The authoritative acts of the popes, inasmuch as they are the exercise of their Apostolical power, are styled acts of the Holy or Apostolic See. The See is thus personified as the representative of the Prince of the Apostles, as in Pope Leo II’s confirmation of the Sixth General Council (Constantinople, 680-681): “Ideirco et Nos et per nostrum officium haec veneranda Sedes Apostolica his quae definita sunt, consentit, et beati Petri Apostoli auctoritate confirmat.” ((Therefore We also and through our office this venerable Apostolic See give assent to the things that have been defined, and confirm them by the authority of the Blessed Apostle Peter.)

newadvent.org/cathen/01640c.htm

 

[Tanner9188]

Hello Tanner,

I found a Catholic site which refers to Pope of Rome as “Domnus Apostolicus.” According to the website:
newadvent.org/cathen/01640c.htm

**Thank you for taking the time to find this.

I have an additional question, but I guess I should hold it because it has nothing to do with the topic. I will start a new thread when I can reduce the number of threads I am in; I’ll start here…LOL

I bookmarked the link; how long did it take you to find that; send a PM if you don’t mind with any search tips for that site.

Thanks again.**

 

[guanophore]

** is their a Catholic reference to the “Pope” , which says he can be addressed as an “apostolic” person? I looked on the NewAdvent site but was unable to find anything in that regards, but I am not well informed concerning the searching on Catholic sites.**

I am not aware of any “addressing” of the Pope as an apostolic person. All those ordained in the succession of the Apostles are considered part of that “apostolic succession”. this would apply to the Pope as well.

I am glad to hear you say you are not well informed about Catholicism. Your posts make this clear, but at times you seem to misrepresent the Catholic faith as if you believed what you were saying is true, when it is not.

The word “apostolate” is use in catholicism is the sense of “one who is sent” with regard to ministries. The Pope receives the apostolate of Peter, which is to feed and care for the flock.

 

[guanophore]

All the bishops of the Church can properly be called apostle, as that is the office to which they succeed by laying of of hands in an unbroken line from the twelve to the present and will continue till the end. However that term has by tradition been used commonly only for the twelve.

There were more than 12 Apostles, and the bishops did not fulfill the requirements to be an Apostle, so cannot properly be termed “Apostles”. However I do agree that they stand in the apostolic succession, and have the same “apostolate” (mission) handed down by those appointed by Christ.

 

[Sir_Knight]

freedomwriter;5449848:

Very true freedomwriter. And besides that most of the saints are dead, so is the virgin Mary, laying in their graves awaiting the resurection at the second coming of our Lord. Some saints are in heaven, Enoch walked into heaven, Elijah was taken up in a firey chariot, and Moses was resurected as an example of those who would rise again. Some saints were resurected along with our Lord and went to heaven with Him.

If you believe that “some” have gone on to heaven, then why not all?

Recall that Matt. 22:32; Mark 12:27; Luke 20:38 tells us that our God is the God of the living not the dead. The living on earth and in heaven are one family.

 

[Selene]

I am not aware of any “addressing” of the Pope as an apostolic person. All those ordained in the succession of the Apostles are considered part of that “apostolic succession”. this would apply to the Pope as well.

I am glad to hear you say you are not well informed about Catholicism. Your posts make this clear, but at times you seem to misrepresent the Catholic faith as if you believed what you were saying is true, when it is not.

The word “apostolate” is use in catholicism is the sense of “one who is sent” with regard to ministries. The Pope receives the apostolate of Peter, which is to feed and care for the flock.

A few years ago, I heard a speech from a Baptist minister who converted to Catholicism. When he was a Baptist minister, he tried so hard to prove that the Catholic Church was teaching the wrong things. He even journeyed to Jerusalem to prove that he was right and that the Catholics were wrong. All those time that he tried to prove that the Catholic Church was teaching the wrong things, he later realized that he was wrong and converted to Catholicism.

When he met the Pope John Paul II, he broke down and cried. He said, “For the first time, I have seen an apostolic man.” He referred to the Pope as an “apostolic” man because his eyes were opened and he now realized that the Pope was indeed the successor of the Apostle Peter. I have never called the Pope or any of the bishops an Apostle because that is a name reserved only for those mentioned in the New Testament. The Pope, however, has been called an “Apostolic See” as mentioned in the website I posted for Tanner.

 

[jlhargus]

JL: Thanks guanophore, it would have been more clear had I said, In the strick sense bishops can properly be called apostles.

It is at once evident that in a Christian sense, everyone who had received a mission from God, or Christ, to man could be called “Apostle”. In fact, however, it was reserved to those of the disciples who received this title from Christ.

it remains certain that in the second century the general Apostolic authority belonged, by a succession universally acknowledged as legitimate, to the bishops of the Christian churches. (See APOSTOLIC SUCCESSION.) The bishops have, therefore, a general power of order, jurisdiction, and magisterium, but not the personal prerogatives of the Apostles. newadvent.org/cathen/01626c.htm

 

[jlhargus]

There were more than 12 Apostles, and the bishops did not fulfill the requirements to be an Apostle, so cannot properly be termed “Apostles”. However I do agree that they stand in the apostolic succession, and have the same “apostolate” (mission) handed down by those appointed by Christ.

JL: Thanks guanophore, it would have been more clear had I said, In the strick sense bishops can properly be called apostles.

It is at once evident that in a Christian sense, everyone who had received a mission from God, or Christ, to man could be called “Apostle”. In fact, however, it was reserved to those of the disciples who received this title from Christ.

it remains certain that in the second century the general Apostolic authority belonged, by a succession universally acknowledged as legitimate, to the bishops of the Christian churches. (See APOSTOLIC SUCCESSION.) The bishops have, therefore, a general power of order, jurisdiction, and magisterium, but not the personal prerogatives of the Apostles. newadvent.org/cathen/01626c.htm

 

[Brother2]

Brother2;5459988:

If you believe that “some” have gone on to heaven, then why not all?

Recall that Matt. 22:32; Mark 12:27; Luke 20:38 tells us that our God is the God of the living not the dead. The living on earth and in heaven are one family.

Guess why I say that only some have gone to heaven and not all?? B E C A U S E that is what the BIBLE says!!! Most are asleep awaiting the call to Wake Up!!!

Heaven could mean a few things, What about all the other Worlds?? The Universe is full of Unfallen beings who refused the Devil’s temptations so the family who are living on earth and the whole of heaven and the Universe are one family!! Do you think God would create only ONE World?? All the world a stage and we are the actors, I know that was Shakespeare by the way…ha ha…although will have to look it up but I think there is a similar verse in Scripture…something about ‘a spectacle to the worlds’, all of heaven is watching what is going on here, heaven is a big place and well populated though it has room for the dead when they wake up…Praise God!! John ll:ll, 'Our friend Lazarus sleepeth, but I go that I may awake him from sleep!!

Wonderful place this Forum for the sharing of views…this knowledge will come in useful later on in the last days of earth’s history… Daniel 2.

LOOK FOR THE WAYMARKS.

Look for the waymarks as you journey on,
Look for the waymarks, passing every one.
Down thro’ the ages, past the kindoms four,
Where are we standing? Look the waymarks o’er.

First the Assyrian kingdom ruled the world,
Then Medo-Persia’s banners were unfurled:
And after Greece held universal sway
Rome seized the scepter—Where are we today?

Down in the feet of iron and of clay,
Weak and divided, soon to pass away.
What will be the next great glorious drama be?
Christ and His coming, and eternity.

Look for the waymarks, the great prophetic waymarks.
Down thro’ the ages, past the kingdoms four.
Look for the waymarks, the great prophetic waymarks,
The journey’s almost o’er.
—F. E. Belfen