praying to virgin mary and the saints

[Rolltide]

God used Mary here on earth for a purpose. Everyone on earth as a purpose, but to you it means that we should pray to those who are now in heaven.

No, we believe that those in heaven should pray along WITH us to God, just as the living pray along with us.

It’s also important to remember that language changes over time. Just 500 years ago, many words had subtly different meanings. For example, you may have read some Shakespeare, “pray tell”? When I say “pray tell” to you, I’m not literally praying to you. Today, the meaning of the word tends to be reserved for something done to God alone, but until relatively recently, the word was simply a synonym for “to ask”. It was a much more common conversational word. People used to “pray” that a court would come to a correct decision, for example. So, even if you hear it said that a Catholic is praying TO a particular saint, it simply means that we are asking for their intercessionary prayer to God. They have NO power in and of themselves.

When an individual is called a saint in heaven, how do you know that person is really a saint? How do you know Mother Teresa is really a saint? Because the pope declared her as one?

No, because GOD declared her as one. As I said, the decision to make someone “Venerable” is indeed a human decision, which is why the two miracles are required to confirm that GOD’s judgment is being reflected as well.

Here are a couple of examples of ongoing examinations:

Father Emil Kaupun - Wichita, Kansas
catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=16365

kansas.com/194/story/861812.html?storylink=omni_popular

Cardinal John Henry Newman (Nineteenth Century Theologian, England)
catholicnewsagency.com/new.php?n=16347

 

[Rolltide]

I don’t recall anywhere in the bible where a person prayed the Rosary. Also, the infallibility of the pope is also in question. Everyone want to see and touch the pope. As far as I know, the pope is just a man, he is not jesus.

No, but there’s LOTS of things that aren’t in the Bible. The word “Trinity” isn’t in the Bible. The list of what books should be in the Bible isn’t in the Bible (or even the WORD Bible, for that matter). By the way… if it wasn’t for the Catholic Church coming up with the list of books that should be included in the Bible at the Catholic Councils of Rome, Carthage, and Hippo, there wouldn’t even BE a Bible…

And you’re absolutely correct. The pope is just a man. BUT… he’s been ordained in an unbroken line that goes all the way back to St. Peter. In other words, St. Peter appointed Linus as his successor, who appointed Anacletus, who appointed Clement… all the way up to Pope Paul VI, who was succeeded by Pope John Paul I, who was succeeded by Pope John Paul II, who was succeeded by Benedict XVI. St. Peter was just a man as well, but they fulfill the same role. That unbroken line is one of the hallmarks of the Catholic Church.

 

[Bill_Pick]

Eph. 3:14-15- we are all one family (“Catholic”) in heaven and on earth, united together, as children of the Father, through Jesus Christ. Our brothers and sisters who have gone to heaven before us are not a different family. We are one and the same family. This is why, in the Apostles Creed, we profess a belief in the “communion of saints.” There cannot be a “communion” if there is no union. Loving beings, whether on earth or in heaven, are concerned for other beings, and this concern is reflected spiritually through prayers for one another.

Eph. 1:22-23; 5:23-32; Col. 1:18,24 - this family is in Jesus Christ, the head of the body, which is the Church.

1 Cor. 12:12,27; Rom. 12:5; Col. 3:15; Eph. 4:4 - we are the members of the one body of Christ, supernaturally linked together by our partaking of the Eucharist.

Rom. 8:35-39 - therefore, death does not separate the family of God and the love of Christ. We are still united with each other, even beyond death.

Matt. 17:3; Mark 9:4; Luke 9:30 - Jesus converses with “deceased” Moses and Elijah. They are more alive than the saints on earth.

Matt. 22:32; Mark 12:27; Luke 20:38 - God is the God of the living not the dead. The living on earth and in heaven are one family.

Luke 15:7,10 – if the angels and saints experience joy in heaven over our repentance, then they are still connected to us and are aware of our behavior.

John 15:1-6 - Jesus is the vine and we are the branches. The good branches are not cut off at death. They are alive in heaven.

1 Cor. 4:9 – because we can become a spectacle not only to men, but to angels as well, this indicates that angels are aware of our earthly activity. Those in heaven are connected to those on earth.

 

[twopekinguys]

Catholics pray the rosary and recite prayers to Virgin Mary. Also, Catholics pray to the saints. Another thing, catholics also use statues of the saints, Virgin Mary, and of Jesus. But dosent’ this contradict what the bible says? Instead of praying to Mary and the saints for help, why not just pray to God? And why have false idols?

This has been hashed out, over and over, and over again. There are many threads about this here at CAF.

The speed version of the answers are. We ask for Mary and the Saints to intercede for us. In other words, go to bat for us with God.

As far as the statues, we don’t worship the statues, they are visual reminders for us, kind of like the pictures you have in your wallet, or on your wall, reminding you of your loved ones.

For me personally, seeing a crucifix is a very powerful reminder of what Jesus did for me, and all of humanity. Remember, the cross by itself is nothing. What Jesus **did **on the cross is everything.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

I don’t recall anywhere in the bible where a person prayed the Rosary.

The Rosary is a meditation on the Scripture. Some Catholics refer to the Rosary as the “Gospel on a string.” I do not pretend to say that the word “Rosary” appears in Scripture. The word “trinity” does not appear in the bible either, and yet it is a doctrine I presume we both accept. Not every prayer has to be contained in the scriptues to be licit.
Derek:

Also, the infallibility of the pope is also in question. Everyone want to see and touch the pope. As far as I know, the pope is just a man, he is not jesus.

No one disputes the fact that the Pope is just a man. I agree he is not Jesus. The pope is the successor to Peter - who was Christ’s very human representative, and the leader of the early Church. The Holy Spirit protects the Church from improper doctrine by preventing any Pope from teaching falsehood as Church doctrine. This is the nature of infallibility.

Infallibility is a charism that comes with the Petrine office. It does not infer sinlessness or impeccability of the person elected as Pope. Nor does the office (and its charism) infer demigod or divine status upon the one selected, any more than the charism of inspired writing given to the writers of scripture elevated these persons to divinity. No good Catholic worships the Pope, or the writers of scripture. If you think that’s what Catholics believe, you are misinformed on this issue as well.

If you want to discuss the merits of infallibility you should start a different thread. Don’t raise new subjects to avoid meritorious and informative responses to the original post. Please deal with the issue at hand.

Peace,
Robert

 

[Eleve]

As do the Oriental Orthodox and the Assyrian Church of the East. I’ve also seen claimed here (although I can’t back this up) that the Old Catholic Churches have AS, and also many Anglican clergy through them.

 

[JonNC]

As do the Oriental Orthodox and the Assyrian Church of the East. I’ve also seen claimed here (although I can’t back this up) that the Old Catholic Churches have AS, and also many Anglican clergy through them.

Some northern European Lutherans, and some ELCA Lutherans through Anglican lines.
Jon

 

[godsgirl10]

If saints are anyone who has died and gone to Heaven, can you pray to your grandparents or other people in your family who have died? And, can anyone who has ever lived know for sure that they are or are not going to Heaven?

 

[kalt]

I don’t recall anywhere in the bible where a person prayed the Rosary. Also, the infallibility of the pope is also in question. Everyone want to see and touch the pope. As far as I know, the pope is just a man, he is not jesus.

There are so many things that aren’t in the Bible. Christmas celebrations, for example. There are all kinds of ministers in Christian churches. Where in the Bible does it tell the Christian church to have music and youth ministers? Where does the Bible tell us that it, the Bible, is the sole authority? Is the creed in the Bible? Is rapture in the Bible?

There are some things that are in the Bible. Calling Mary Blessed. Candles and incense. Prayers for the dead-Intercessory prayer. Apostolic succession. The real pressence in the Eucharist. The first pope.

 

[kalt]

If saints are anyone who has died and gone to Heaven, can you pray to your grandparents or other people in your family who have died? And, can anyone who has ever lived know for sure that they are or are not going to Heaven?

You can’t be sure if you’re “saved”.

People “pray to” the people in their family who have died all the time. They might call it “talking to” (sometimes done at the grave), but it’s the same thing.

 

[freedomwriter]

In the Word of God Paul speaks of writing to the Saints. Now was he writing to dead people or alive. They are alive. Those who have gone on to be with the Lord cannot hear or intercede our prayers. There are only a couple of instances that God allowed someone to come back from being in the presense of the Lord. If you pray to anyone else you are praying in vain. Jesus is the only one to mediate on our behalf to God the father.

 

[freedomwriter]

You can’t be sure if you’re “saved”.

People “pray to” the people in their family who have died all the time. They might call it “talking to” (sometimes done at the grave), but it’s the same thing.

You can be sure you are saved by following what the scriptures say on salvation.

 

[Robert_in_SD]

In the Word of God Paul speaks of writing to the Saints. Now was he writing to dead people or alive. They are alive. Those who have gone on to be with the Lord cannot hear or intercede our prayers. There are only a couple of instances that God allowed someone to come back from being in the presense of the Lord. If you pray to anyone else you are praying in vain. Jesus is the only one to mediate on our behalf to God the father.

Saints are not mediators. They are intercessors. Their ability to intercede on our behalf rests in the unique mediatorship of Jesus Christ. There is no contradiction here. Yes, Christ is our one mediator. Any christian (who by definition is part of the mystical body of Christ) can offer intercessory prayers for another christian, because we are all one body in Christ. We are all one body in Christ as a result of Christ being our One Mediator.

Peace,
Robert

 

[Robert_in_SD]

You can be sure you are saved by following what the scriptures say on salvation.

Eternal salvation can only be determined by how one has “run the race.” You cannot declare yourself a victor in the middle of the race. But you can trust in God that with his grace to sustain you, you will finish. That is a sure promise. But you must also realize that even with grace there is still free will whereby one can reject that ultimate salvation that is being offered and turn away from God.

Peace,
Robert

 

[elvisman]

In the Word of God Paul speaks of writing to the Saints. Now was he writing to dead people or alive. They are alive. Those who have gone on to be with the Lord cannot hear or intercede our prayers. There are only a couple of instances that God allowed someone to come back from being in the presense of the Lord. If you pray to anyone else you are praying in vain. Jesus is the only one to mediate on our behalf to God the father.

Your problem is that you reject scripture itself. The body of Christ is EVERYBODY in the body - not just those who are here on earth (1 Cor. 12:31). It is ONE body praying for each other and interceding for one another (Heb. 12:1, Rev. 5:8, 8:3-4).

As for Jesus being our only mediator - you simply don’t understand what this means. He is our ONE mediator in the sense that only HIS blood can atone for our sins. BUT - we are ALL called upon to be intercessors for eath other (1 Tim. 2:1, James 5:16).

You can be sure you are saved by following what the scriptures say on salvation.

The following scriptures are written for people like you who think that they know that they are saved for certain:

---

Romans 11:22****
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God’s kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.”

---

Hebrews 10:26-27****
“If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”

---

2 Peter 2:26-27****
**For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of (our) Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first. **
**For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them. **

** Matt. 7:21**
"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven."

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."

 

[Nino]

you said it kid…false idols…but those you mentioned are not false! I guess its ok to have pics of famous athletes or maybe a lucky coin in ones pocket but never speak to one of Gods favorites correct? When Fr.John Houle SJ was given the last rites for pulmonary fibrosis and just before he passed into a coma his friend Fr.Parish placed a relic from the body of Blessed Claude and asked all present in the hospital room to pray for Blessed Claude to help cure Fr.Houle. Guess what happened boys and girls…Fr.Houle was cured,the entire hospital went bananas ,sent the x-rays to Rome and in 1992 it was declared a miracle! This was the third miracle Blessed Colombiere needed to make the spiritual hall of fame…ie Sainthood!!! it took 300 years…and so on Feb 15 Saint Claude has his feast day and I feel deeplyl that anyone who has chest etc cares to try and contact both St.Claude or Fr.Houle…a book on Fr.Houle is out…'The miraculous life of Fr.Houle is fascintating reading…I knew the good father for I used to show his film to many KC etc groups…and have letters from the good priest…To those who believe with open hearts the above is natural…to the secular humanists its just …full in whatever is PC…Nino

 

[brigid12]

I don’t recall anywhere in the bible where a person prayed the Rosary. Also, the infallibility of the pope is also in question. Everyone want to see and touch the pope. As far as I know, the pope is just a man, he is not jesus.

The Our Father was taught by Jesus. The first number of lines of the Hail Mary are from the Gospels where Gabriel greets Mary and where Elizabeth speaks to her (the last few lines are a prayer asking that Mary pray for us to her Son). The Apostle’s Creed is what was used in the first couple of centuries after Christ to teach Catechumans the Church’s beliefs.
Noone, noone said that the Pope is anything but a man, and certainly not Jesus Christ! He was given the Keys to the Kingdom of God by Jesus (see Matthew 16:18-19) and refers to himself as the Servant of the Servant of God/Jesus’ Vicar on earth. He is an important man on earth however presidents of countries have greater security for the people that want to inundate them.

 

[thirdn6]

Catholics pray the rosary and recite prayers to Virgin Mary. Also, Catholics pray to the saints. Another thing, catholics also use statues of the saints, Virgin Mary, and of Jesus. But dosent’ this contradict what the bible says? Instead of praying to Mary and the saints for help, why not just pray to God? And why have false idols?

Haven’t you heard the whispers in the wind…?
“The family that prays together stays together…”

The rosary is also a family prayer.

The Church is a family. A big family of believers. A Catholic family. Whether the saints in heaven or catholics on earth. We all pray together…
When I pray the rosary I am 100% sure somebody somewhere a catholic is also praying with me.

We ask the Lord for the forgiveness of sins and for the salvation of souls.

Do you think that’s bad?

We do not worship fellow “creatures” like Mary or the saints nor “creations” like statues or “something”.

That one I’m telling you is bad.
Welcome.

 

[freedomwriter]

Your problem is that you reject scripture itself. The body of Christ is EVERYBODY in the body - not just those who are here on earth (1 Cor. 12:31). It is ONE body praying for each other and interceding for one another (Heb. 12:1, Rev. 5:8, 8:3-4).

As for Jesus being our only mediator - you simply don’t understand what this means. He is our ONE mediator in the sense that only HIS blood can atone for our sins. BUT - we are ALL called upon to be intercessors for eath other (1 Tim. 2:1, James 5:16).

The following scriptures are written for people like you who think that they know that they are saved for certain:

---

Romans 11:22****
“See, then, the kindness and severity of God: severity toward those who fell, but God’s kindness to you, provided you remain in his kindness; otherwise you too will be cut off.”

---

Hebrews 10:26-27****
“If we sin deliberately after receiving knowledge of the truth, there no longer remains sacrifice for sins but a fearful prospect of judgment and a flaming fire that is going to consume the adversaries.”

---

2 Peter 2:26-27****
For if they, having escaped the defilements of the world through the knowledge of (our) Lord and savior Jesus Christ, again become entangled and overcome by them, their last condition is worse than their first.
For it would have been better for them not to have known the way of righteousness than after knowing it to turn back from the holy commandment handed down to them.

** Matt. 7:21**
"Not everyone who says to me, ‘Lord, Lord’ shall enter the kingdom of heaven."

1 Cor. 9:27
"I pummel my body and subdue it, lest after preaching to others I myself should be disqualified."

Why do you continue to reply when your have no clue what you are saying. I know what mediator means and those believers that are with Christ are not interceding for us. If you really study the bible you would know that christ is interceding for us to the father. i really think you have a hard time understanding scripture. Please read it slowly and meditate on what Christ is saying. For example Jn 3:16 "that whoever believes in him shall NOT perish but HAVE eternal life. Eph 2:8-9, I know i have been saved because of what God’s Word says not by someone like you who continue to spread lies about God’s Word. Every time I see a reply from you i pray that no one follows your lies. Please take some time off and really study God’s Word. I think your ego has gotten in the way. Remember there is greater condemnation for those who do not share the truth of God’s Word.

 

[elvisman]

Why do you continue to reply when your have no clue what you are saying. I know what mediator means and those believers that are with Christ are not interceding for us. If you really study the bible you would know that christ is interceding for us to the father. i really think you have a hard time understanding scripture. Please read it slowly and meditate on what Christ is saying. For example Jn 3:16 "that whoever believes in him shall NOT perish but HAVE eternal life. Eph 2:8-9, I know i have been saved because of what God’s Word says not by someone like you who continue to spread lies about God’s Word. Every time I see a reply from you i pray that no one follows your lies. Please take some time off and really study God’s Word. I think your ego has gotten in the way. Remember there is greater condemnation for those who do not share the truth of God’s Word.

Your problem is failure to understand CONTEXT.
There are some passages in scripture that are simplified because of who is being addressed. There are other passages that are described more completely. The context of what is being said leads to the same conclusion.

Another thing you fail to understand is what “BELIEVE” means when pertaining to God. BELIEVE means obedience and submission to God - surrender to ALL he has taught us - not just those things you like.

**As for praying the Rosary - it is a petition for help - and it is ALL scripturally based on the life of Christ. **
Well - for those uf us who understand sripture, that is . . .