Praying with non Catholics

[Phemie]

I remember when I was a child that our parents were told they could go to a Protestant funeral to support a grieving family but they were not to participate in the service in any way, shape, or form. Not even the Lord’s Prayer was to be recited with them.

Now we often participate in ecumenical services and in some cases even share the planning with our fellow Christian community members.

 

[Glennon_P]

It was not just “taught by some” but it was actually church law. Canon 1258 of the old 1917 Code of Canon Law said:

1. It is illicit for the faithful to assist at or participate in any way in non-Catholic religious functions.
2. For a serious reason requiring, in case of doubt, the Bishop’s approval, passive or merely material presence at non-Catholic funerals, weddings and similar occasions because of holding a civil office or as a courtesy can be tolerated, provided there is no danger of perversion or scandal. (source )

I read that this was relaxed by Pope Pius XII in 1949 or 1950. Alas, I do not have access to that book now to provide the citation.

 

[Todd_Easton]

I don’t know about a relaxation of the 1917 canon in 1949 or 1950 but, it is my understanding, it was abrogated with the promulgation of the current Code of Canon Law in 1983, since the current Code does not contain that or a similar canon.

 

[felsguy]

When Mormons or other proselytizing non-Catholics knock on my door I always invite the pair of them in, or if I’m in the middle of something that I can’t easily interrupt, ask them to come back at another bur definite time, for a friendly discussion of our respective beliefs, especially those which we have in common, and we always begun and end with prayer which we take turns in leading.

I wonder if perhaps the OP misheard or the priest was offering a personal opinion contrary to what is a prevalent practice today.

 

[Eric_Hyom]

Many popes have prayed together with non - Catholics.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

I heard this talk before. I do not remember which one it was so I can not look it up but I believe he was talking about worship and ecumenical services held that have not received Church approval, local and otherwise, which I understand to be correct. It is one thing to pray with non Catholics in our daily lives but it is something else to hold worship services together. We don’t combine the Sacrifice of the Mass with a non denominational or other protestant service. These would be considered false ecumenism.

We should probably be sure and let them know who we are praying to, as one non Catholic “Christian” I prayed with wanted to pray to a lamp. Yes she was serious. She felt inanimate objects held higher powers and it didn’t matter who or what you prayed to as along as you prayed.

 

[OddBird]

It is one thing to pray with non Catholics in our daily lives but it is something else to hold worship services together. We don’t combine the Sacrifice of the Mass with a non denominational or other protestant service.

I agree, but that does not mean that holding worship services together is impossible. Here, they typically are Liturgies of the Word, without Eucharist.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

I agree, but that does not mean that holding worship services together is impossible. Here, they typically are Liturgies of the Word, without Eucharist.

I am thinking you are referring to ecumenical services that hopefully for the Catholics attending have been approved.

For Catholics the highest form of worship is the Sacrifice of the Mass, which though it is considered to be divided into two parts, the Liturgy of the Word and then the Liturgy of the Eucharist, the whole sacrifice is actually a Liturgy of the Word. This is because in both parts we recieve the Word. First the Scriptural Word and then the Eucharistic Word.

 

[OddBird]

I am thinking you are referring to ecumenical services that hopefully for the Catholics attending have been approved.

Yes, of course ! These are usually presided by ministers from most denominations present here, which is one Reformed minister, one Evangelical minister, one Salvation Army officer, one Old Catholic priest and one Roman Catholic priest, both of which have the blessing of their respective bishops.

We also take care that they do not replace Mass, as they do not fulfill the Sunday obligation for Catholic faithful.

This is because in both parts we recieve the Word. First the Scriptural Word and then the Eucharistic Word.

Even my most Reformed colleagues would say the same about our liturgy

 

[MagdalenaRita]

We also take care that they do not replace Mass, as they do not fulfill the Sunday obligation for Catholic faithful.

Yes this is correct.

Even my most Reformed colleagues would say the same about our liturgy

Being an ex-protestant myself and having been to many different protestant churches and knowing that not all protestants have “eucharist” at their services, I am not sure what you mean. I realize some do have what they consider eucharist though in the Catholic Church, we are receiving the Body, Blood, Soul and Divinity of Christ. This is why we do not combine the Mass with a protestant service.

 

[OddBird]

I realize some do have what they consider eucharist

Yes, this is what I mean. I am not saying that our ministers can validly consecrate the Eucharist (which I honestly do not believe and which would be a whole other topic). I am simply saying that, the way my Reformed church understands liturgy, it sees it as centered around two tables, the table of the Word and the table of the Lord’s Supper, in which we receive the same Word of God.

So, when I say “Liturgy of the Word”, I am simply saying that, for the sake of common worship, both my particular Reformed tradition and Catholics amputate their service from something they consider essential, and whose absence is painful.

 

[MagdalenaRita]

That is what I thought you meant. It is probably considered more of a prayer service and definitely not Mass combined with a protestant service.

 

[JulianN]

No; No Catholics can not pray with non Catholics.

GENERAL LAWS OF GOD, FORBIDDING ALL COMMUNICATION
IN RELIGION WITH THOSE OF A FALSE RELIGION

By Bishop George Hay (1729-1811)

At best, Bishop Hay’s teaching only applied to his own diocese in Scotland.

 

[OddBird]

Yes, exactly !

 

[adf417]

Ryan22:

No; No Catholics can not pray with non Catholics.

GENERAL LAWS OF GOD, FORBIDDING ALL COMMUNICATION
IN RELIGION WITH THOSE OF A FALSE RELIGION

By Bishop George Hay (1729-1811)

At best, Bishop Hay’s teaching only applied to his own diocese in Scotland.

Not to mention the OP did specifically rule out non-Christians in his query. So it would not necessarily fall into the“False Religion” category.

Peace!!!

 

[Genesis315]

There’s nothing per se wrong with praying with other Christians common orthodox prayers (like the Our Father) for good ends. But, as the Second Vatican Council put it, “Witness to the unity of the Church very generally forbids common worship to Christians” and “Common participation in worship which harms the unity of the Church or involves formal acceptance of error or the danger of aberration in the faith, of scandal and indifferentism, is forbidden by divine law.” This is the general rule Bishop Hay above is addressing. In other words, we need to make sure we avoid giving the impression that one religion is as good as another or anything that signifies acceptance of error or a unity that doesn’t exist.

The Church used to have a blanket prohibition against public and liturgical common prayer altogether based on the thought that the risk of this danger outweighed any good that might come from it, only granting exceptions here and there. Now, the thought is the good that might come from it generally outweighs the risk and there is a general permission for it (provided there is no explicit error in the prayers). There are pros and cons to either approach that can be debated according to the circumstances. Personally, I am of the opinion that the dangers are usually not taken seriously enough these days.

When it comes to non-Christians, clearly we cannot pray together with those who are praying to idols and other false gods. But even with those who acknowledge God, we can’t pray in common the same way that we can with someone who is baptized into Christ.

As Cardinal Kasper, who for a long while in recent times was head of the Vatican’s activities in this area (and generally is more open to interreligious activities than most), said:

“The ecumenical dialogue and the interreligious dialogue are connected and overlap, but are not identical with each other another. There is a specific, qualitative difference between them and, therefore, they should not be confused. Ecumenical dialogues are not only based on the tolerance and respect due for every human and religious conviction; nor are they founded solely on liberal philanthropy or mere polite courtesy; on the contrary, ecumenical dialogue is rooted in the common faith in Jesus Christ and the reciprocal recognition of baptism, which means that all the baptized become members of the one Body of Christ (cf. Gal 3,28); I Cor 12,13; Ut unum sint, n. 42) and can pray the"Our Father” together, as Jesus taught us. In other religions the Church recognizes a ray of that truth “that enlightens every man” (Jn 1,9), but is revealed in its fullness only in Jesus Christ; only he is “the Way, the Truth and the Life” (Jn 14,6; cf. Nostra aetate, n. 2). It is therefore ambiguous to refer to interreligious dialogue in terms of macro-ecumenism or of a new and vaster phase of ecumenism.

Christians and the followers of other religions can pray, but cannot pray together. Every form of syncretism is to be excluded."

http://www.vatican.va/roman_curia/p...pc_chrstuni_doc_20020107_peace-kasper_en.html

 

[Emtguy89]

I think it would really depend on the circumstances and context, and content of the prayer, but at every Mass at least in a larger parish you will no doubt have some non-Catholics. They may be tourists visiting a historic church, family of a parishioner, exploring the faith, who knows. My in-laws go to mass with me when they visit, they believe in God but their understanding of the faith is very limited, and they do not speak a single word of English nor can they comprehend one letter in the Latin alphabet. But that’s not the same as going to a Protestant congregation or like that one time Bishop Gregory Hartmayer went to a Baptist church to hear a former president-turned-preacher who openly supports abortion and gay marriage.

 

[JulianN]

That is false. He is giving the Catholic principles as set out by the Catholic Church ! That should be obvious.

The Previous Code of Canon Law (1917), was clear on the matter: " It is not permitted at all for the faithful to assist in any active manner at or to have any part in the worship of non-Catholics." - Canon 1258

Yes, but has been pointed out, the 1917 Code is no longer in force, having been abrogated in its entirety. The current Code has no such provision. What the bishop said was binding in his time, and in his diocese.

 

[Dolphin]

Let’s see what Jesus has to say about this very question:

“‘Do not stop him, Jesus replied. For no one who performs a miracle in My name can turn around and speak evil of Me. For whoever is not against us is for us.’” Mark 9:39-40

 

[Patri]

I see no reason to pray with them. We are not encouraged to receive communion in their churches as that would be like validating it and it is not the Body and Blood of Christ.