Preast and vows.

[promethius]

Edjco… I was quoting something said to me… I did not say that. Read again…
Matthew 16:18. Is right Jesus started His Church. Who again is you and me we are the Church.

If the church is the modern day ark, which saves us from the flood of sin, then what in the world makes you think that those who are not in the ark will be saved from drowning?

Certainly, there are those who through invincible ignorance MAY be offered the sacramental grace of the faith, and the invisible membership in the church… but if this is the case, then you can be sure of one thing: no matter what they call themselves, they are catholic. And those who do not have this protection of ignorance and God’s grace can certainly be assured of one thing: they are outside of the church and will not be saved… so yes, it very much matters that people belong to the church

 

[teresa_lamb]

Hi Nan,

I have a question, if you don’t mind. “When someone asks you if you are saved, what is your answer to them?”

Thank you

 

[Nan_Bemis]

Teresa.
I would tell them when I was able to know about Jesus, read His words and say from my mouth I believe, I was saved. through faith… I am still a sinner we all are. But just because I am questioning my religious believes and am searching the Bible to make sure what I did believe lined up with Gods word… Jesus Christ is the Lord of my life :grouphug:Religion to me is the way people worship, but Christianity believing in Christ is a way of life! To read His word and have Him come alive in me is something that is so incredible. I prayed to the Holy Spirit when ever I search. I can’t blindly believe something that is not found in Gods word. Some people can believe what ever their religion teaches I can’t I have to search… Jesus said my ways are not man’s ways… I only came on here to ask a question and here we are. To me Jesus is my savior not my religion…. I wish I could say what happened that got me searching but this is not the place. But once I started I got such a thirst to know more. I hope everyone understands…
Your sister in Christ…

 

[Nan_Bemis]

Promethius…
I hope you are referring to Gods Church which is you and I and all christens
who believe. It does not say anywhere in the Bible that we had to belong to a religion only that we believe in Him (Jesus). And we have salvation. Jesus is the head of My church.
your sister in Christ…

 

[Church_Militant]

Thistle.
You said> I assume you do know that the Church teaches there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church!
You got to be kidding… Jesus said believe in Him and you are saved…
“If you confess with your mouth you have eternal life. It is that simple, once you are saved the Holy Spirit will come into your heart and help you change… We can not be saved through our own efforts or works.

Nan, I’m sorry but you are showing a serious ignorance of the Catholic faith that you profess. And most of us are surprised, since you sound more like a Protestant than a Catholic.

Please take a careful look at the following articles from my blog.
How Is A Catholic Saved?
Who REALLY Preaches “A Different Gospel”?

I can’t believe you don’t know that no religion can give you grace, it is a FREE gift from God… Through faith. Where in The Bible does it say there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church! Again you are confusing Religion with Christ.

So you do not believe that the sacraments convey grace? Here’s another article on my blog that will address that thinking. “I Find No Sacraments In the Bible” he said.

Moreover, if all one has to do to be saved is to believe then what is Our Lord telling us about that in Matthew 25 31-46? If believing is enough, then why does St. James tell us, " You believe that God is one; you do well. Even the demons believe – and shudder. " (See James chapter 2)

Thistle… Yes I do read the catholic teachings…

Yeah? Well I did too and right alongside the Bible, which is largely why I am Catholic. You, on the other hand are offering almost nothing at all but errant non-Catholic errors. That’s why I and most of the rest of us are trying to engage you about this.

Thistle…
After mass I asked about 5 people if they thought there is no salvation outside the Catholic Church!
And they are catholic… They all said Grace is free and that all people that believe no matter what religion.(Christen) are saved through Faith.

That’s nothing. A great many Catholics, (like yourself) don’t actually know what they believe or why and cannot answer correctly because of the miserable excuses for catechesis they’ve had.
From the catechism:

838 "The Church knows that she is joined in many ways to the baptized who are honored by the name of Christian, but do not profess the Catholic faith in its entirety or have not preserved unity or communion under the successor of Peter."322 Those "who believe in Christ and have been properly baptized are put in a certain, although imperfect, communion with the Catholic Church."323 With the Orthodox Churches, this communion is so profound "that it lacks little to attain the fullness that would permit a common celebration of the Lord’s Eucharist."324

Further:

**“Outside the Church there is no salvation” **
846 How are we to understand this affirmation, often repeated by the Church Fathers?335 Re-formulated positively, it means that all salvation comes from Christ the Head through the Church which is his Body:

Basing itself on Scripture and Tradition, the Council teaches that the Church, a pilgrim now on earth, is necessary for salvation: the one Christ is the mediator and the way of salvation; he is present to us in his body which is the Church. He himself explicitly asserted the necessity of faith and Baptism, and thereby affirmed at the same time the necessity of the Church which men enter through Baptism as through a door. Hence they could not be saved who, knowing that the Catholic Church was founded as necessary by God through Christ, would refuse either to enter it or to remain in it.336
847 This affirmation is not aimed at those who, through no fault of their own, do not know Christ and his Church:

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.337
848 "Although in ways known to himself God can lead those who, through no fault of their own, are ignorant of the Gospel, to that faith without which it is impossible to please him, the Church still has the obligation and also the sacred right to evangelize all men."338

 

[Church_Militant]

Thistle just because we are Catholic does not mean we have to believe blindly and not search for our selves. I will Pray for you. I believe you are a man of great faith. But for me I know I have a lot of faith in Christ and His word over any religion. No use talking anymore we won’t agree and that is ok. We are all sisters and brothers in Christ… God Bless!!!

This is another case where you are wrong. (Not about Thistle…we’ve posted here for a long time and you’re right about him and his faith). You seem to think that you are the final authority as to what is correct Catholic belief and that unless we agree with you then we are in error, but if you take the time to read what I have posted so far and consider it prayerfully then you’ll see that you have picked up some very Protestant errors and that is what we are seeking to get you to reconsider.

Truth is not subjective Nan. It’s very definitely objective and that is very important. You seem to think that the Bible is the final and ultimate authority for what Christians believe and practice, and that is the foundational error of Protestantism known as Sola Scriptura. It has no basis in the Bible. (See Refuting the fundamental modern error of Sola Scriptura.)

None of us that have responded to you have “believed blindly and not searched for ourselves”. If you actually read My Testimony you would have seen that clearly about me. If you read my articles. you’ll see that they are based on Catholic Biblical study and many other sources as well. there is no “blind faith” here among us Nan.

 

[Church_Militant]

Promethius…
I hope you are referring to Gods Church which is you and I and all christens
who believe. It does not say anywhere in the Bible that we had to belong to a religion only that we believe in Him (Jesus). And we have salvation. Jesus is the head of My church.
your sister in Christ…

Since you want Biblical evidence Nan, I’ll show you where you are wrong in your answer to Promethius from the New Testament.

1st Timothy 3:15] if I am delayed, you may know how one ought to behave in the household of God, which is the church of the living God, the pillar and bulwark of the truth.

What does St. Paul tell Timothy is the pillar and bulwark of the truth? The Bible? No indeed! Notice the bolded text above. So …if this is the case according the Bible itself, then where is this Bible only belief from. (Hint: Modern men)

 

[Nan_Bemis]

.
To all.
I timothy 3:15 I have read this scripture Perhaps the reason Paul called the Church the “pillar and foundation of the truth” is because it is the Church’s job to proclaim the gospel of Jesus (who is “the Truth”). Gods truth. We are the church of Christ the Church, or congregation of believers, Paul was talking about the leaders and how they should uphold the truth… (He never mentions a religion.) So he is talking about being away and how the leaders should act…
Being part of Christ means being part of His Church. (When Church is mention in the Bible It is talking about the body of believers) The Church ( we the believers) and Christ are synonymous and cannot be separated ever. If you would be a part of Christ you must be a part of His Church.
Since the Church is the foundation or the pillar of the truth, it must be infallible, for a pillar that can crumble is worthless. Without the pillar, there would be no truth, just as there cannot be a house where there is no foundation. If the Church is the foundation of the truth, then this foundation must be faultless, blameless, perfect, or, in theological terms. Infallible …
What does infallible mean? --incapable of failure or error. Who is infallible Christ or man? With what has been going on with religions today how can any religion clime to be infallible??
I don’t think God’s word needs defending. If you feel Religion needs it then go for it… The bible is all about relationships with Him not about religions. So lets talk about how much Jesus is doing in our lives instead of defending religions against His word.
Wow. All this from a question… I am astonished. In any event, we must agree to disagree and end a futile discussion. God bless your sister in Christ.

 

[Dorothy]

.
To all.
I timothy 3:15 I have read this scripture Perhaps the reason Paul called the Church the “pillar and foundation of the truth” is because it is the Church’s job to proclaim the gospel of Jesus (who is “the Truth”). Gods truth. We are the church of Christ the Church, or congregation of believers, Paul was talking about the leaders and how they should uphold the truth… (He never mentions a religion.) So he is talking about being away and how the leaders should act…
Being part of Christ means being part of His Church. (When Church is mention in the Bible It is talking about the body of believers) The Church ( we the believers) and Christ are synonymous and cannot be separated ever. If you would be a part of Christ you must be a part of His Church.
Since the Church is the foundation or the pillar of the truth, it must be infallible, for a pillar that can crumble is worthless. Without the pillar, there would be no truth, just as there cannot be a house where there is no foundation. If the Church is the foundation of the truth, then this foundation must be faultless, blameless, perfect, or, in theological terms. Infallible …
What does infallible mean? --incapable of failure or error. Who is infallible Christ or man? With what has been going on with religions today how can any religion clime to be infallible??
I don’t think God’s word needs defending. If you feel Religion needs it then go for it… The bible is all about relationships with Him not about religions. So lets talk about how much Jesus is doing in our lives instead of defending religions against His word.
Wow. All this from a question… I am astonished. In any event, we must agree to disagree and end a futile discussion. God bless your sister in Christ.

You have demonstrated that you do not fully understand what infallible means. Infallibility does not mean impeccability. It does not mean that the pope, the visible head of the Church cannot err in his personal opinions or that he can never sin in a grievous way.

All it means is that when he speaks in authority about faith (doctrines, dogmas) and morals (what is sin) then he cannot err. This is all about Jesus promise to be with the Church, not about the saintliness or un-saintliness of the pope.

Are you interested in the truth or your interpretation of the truth?

 

[Nan_Bemis]

One more thing… You said Nan, I’m sorry but you are showing a serious ignorance of the Catholic faith that you profess. This is too much. I never profess faith in Catholic church my faith comes from Believing in Jesus words… I will turn this back to you. You are showing a serious ignorance. in that your faith comes from a religion mine comes from the Bible. I am catholic but a questioning one .and I know that If I am being taught something that does not line up with scripture Then I want to know why, Again I don’t blindly believe everything. just because I question what they teach does not take away my believe in Christ. the statement that if one is not in the catholic religion is not saved… So sad Christ is the only one who says who is saved and who is not. It is not up to man. Did not Jesus say Believe in Him and you have eternal life? Follow my commandments. Question have the C.C changed the Ten Commandments? Have they added or taken away and Why is that ok? See you blindly except… Your sister in Christ…

 

[Dorothy]

With regard to the numbering of the ten commandments, if you read and understand the site I am sending, (it is not that long, but please read the whole explanation), you will then see that there is nothing deceptive about the numbering of the commandments. Several different groups have numbered them differently.

davidmacd.com/catholic/10_commandments.htm

My religion comes from Jesus Christ, the Word of God. The Sacred Scriptures helps me understand His teaching, and is great encouragement for me.

Perhaps you have mislead others by putting your religion as Catholic, with a capital “C”. That means universal, and the four marks of the Catholic Church is that it is One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic. That is why they are presuming you are Catholic.

Many people can study the Bible and come up with countless interpretations of Jesus’ words. That is why I believe in the God-given authority of the Catholic Church.

 

[Nan_Bemis]

I am Catholic. Let me tell you why I question my Catholic faith. The Catholic church put out a Bible called Break through for young Catholic’s. By Saint Mary’s press. Where they state that in Genesis, Adam and Eve, was just a story (symbolic). that God did not take a rib from Adam and make Eve that it is just a story (A myth) is what the catholic church says… . I took the book to my parish priest and he said he did not know and he was going to look into it… I asked him if he thought Genesis is accurate? He said yes it is and he thanked me for bring the book to his attention… A friend wanted to become Catholic she went to a church to learn the teachings. In one of the talks they were told the C. Church believed in the Big Bang Theory. I could go on and on but it is useless. I decided to take my religious blinders off and search for my self… And you can say I am not Catholic all you want. I am beginning to think that in your eyes being a Catholic is to sit back and let our leaders add or change things. I will ask you is Genesis accurate? to me it is…
Your sister in Christ…Thank you for your feedback…

 

[Dorothy]

Genesis is about the Fall of Man and the promise of a Redeemer.

People who get hung up on the details can argue till the end of time and will not get the real point if they prefer to just keep debating.

Yes, Catholics are to believe that the human race began with one man and one woman.

I don’t know anything about how God created the universe, nor am I interested in scientific speculation. I do believe that God created all things by willing it! The scientists can have all the dialog they want, and it won’t affect what I believe about God and the meaning of my life.

Incidentally, I believe, and I am still a Catholic, that in Genesis where it says the serpent spoke, that it means that satan tempted. If some people want to believe that a snake actually spoke, it doesn’t bother me. As long as they understand that Adam and Eve disobeyed God.

Some conclusions about details are not worth getting worked up over. It is what is important about what Our Lord taught us and how we obey Him that counts.

 

[Nan_Bemis]

Dictionary’s definition of Infallible-- incapable of failure or error. what part of that do you not understand? if any religion can error how can they be infallible? Only Christ is infallible not man…

 

[Nan_Bemis]

Dorothy.
Your right it only matters what God’s word says. and if we keep our eyes on His word we can’t go wrong. We all believe what we want and that is ok. the funny thing we all agree on Jesus and His word. I just tend to leave religion out of it and what do I have left Jesus!!
When Jesus comes back their will be no religions Just Jesus and His church… Can’t wait.!!.

 

[Dorothy]

Dictionary’s definition of Infallible-- incapable of failure or error. what part of that do you not understand? if any religion can error how can they be infallible? Only Christ is infallible not man…

Yes, the pope is incapable of error WITH REGARDS TO FAITH AND MORALS I have mentioned that more than once and you haven’t understood it yet.

It has nothing to do with his opinions on various subjects, or whether he is a holy man or an immoral man.
Because Our Lord Jesus Christ protects the Church he protects the pope from teaching anything about faith (doctrines or dogmas), or about what is morally correct, FOR THE SAKE OF THE BODY OF CHRIST!

Do you understand what I have just said? CHRIST DOES NOT ERR IN HIS TEACHINGS THAT THE POPE PUTS FORTH!

 

[EricFilmer]

Dictionary’s definition of Infallible-- incapable of failure or error. what part of that do you not understand? if any religion can error how can they be infallible? Only Christ is infallible not man…

When St. Peter (the first pope) wrote his first and second epistle in the New Testament, did he do so free of error?
What about all the other people whom God inspired and empowered to write the various books of the Bible?

You say that only Christ is infallible, but Christ was not the one to put pen to paper (or stylus to papyrus, as the case may be) when the books of the Bible were written. According to what you’ve stated, the various books of the Bible were written by fallible people (because they weren’t Christ), and therefore (based on your line of reasoning) it is possible for the Bible to contain error. Is that a conclusion you are comfortable with?

 

[Nan_Bemis]

Dorothy…
You asked me Are you interested in the truth or your interpretation of the truth?
See you are assuming my interpretation is not the truth, and yours is. All I am saying that God himself said to search scripture to make sure what you are being taught lines up with His word.
God is asking us that same question, You interested in my truth or your truth… I am leaving this up to God. He knows who is following His word and who is following man’s. God Bless!!

 

[Church_Militant]

Yet having been virtually buried in scripture, as well as writings of the early church and various Catholic teaching sources, which your own interpretations contradict you persist in your own position as being better informed than that of 2,000 years of the authentic, full gospel, New Testament church that Christ Himself founded?

You have yet to supply us with any scripture that even infers that your thinking is Biblical to begin with. You say search the scriptures and yet when others share scripture with you that should guide and correct your thinking (and answer your “friend” with facts and both scripture and historic Christian teaching, you reject it in favor of your own personal wisdom?

Your original question was about some supposed vow that Priests take, and no such vow exists. did you ask you friend where they got their information? If she can’t supply her source…or is it’s just something someone told her then you should have corrected her and all this would have been long finished.

I believe you have been spending time listening to anti-Catholics and have picked up some of their errors because you don’t know your own Catholic faith or the Word of God well enough. You probably are Catholic, but …

 

[Nan_Bemis]

SCRIPTURE: Galatians 1:10 For do I now persuade men, or God? Or do I seek to please men? For if I still pleased men, I would not be a bondservant of Christ. These two things are easy to mix up: Pleasing God and persuading people; not pleasing people and persuading God.
Paul asks two questions here: 1) Who do I try to persuade, men or God? 2) Who do I try to please, man or God?
These are very important questions.
Paul sought to please God, not people. You really couldn’t call Paul a people-pleaser by any stretch of the imagination. He seemed to stir up trouble with people wherever he went. He was always stepping on people’s toes. He definitely was not a people-pleaser.
Nor was he a God-persuader. He didn’t manipulate God to fit his needs. When he asked God three times to remove his thorn in the flesh and God said, “No,” he submitted and said, “Now I will glory in my affliction.”
God is the One that we serve. He is the only One we need to please. It is His opinion alone that counts. He needs to be the motivation for my action. He is not compromised or negotiated.
People are the ones to whom we bring the message. People and popular opinion are fickle and always changing, but can be very compelling. There is a strong desire to please people – but how can we persuade them if we seek to please them?
God’s opinion, not popular opinion, is what really counts. Changing people to come to God, not changing God to fit for people, is the only way to make a real difference.
PRAYER: Father, keep me from the people-pleasing trap. I know that I am drawn to it. Amen.