Pregnant Student Banned from Graduation, Walks

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TPJCatholic:
spaceghost,

IMO the Church cannot support sin. The two student parents commited sin when they had sex outside of marriage. Another way of handling this would have been to ask the mother and father to give a talk to the student body about the consequences of their actions. Yet, barring that, the students should not be placing their sin on display.
Supporting sin is much different than supporting the sinners. Of course the church does not condone sin. But if all the sinners in the class were not allowed to walk in graduation, then there would be no graduating class!

I also agree with others about the message to others in the school who find themselves pregnant. It would be very tempting to quietly have an abortion and avoid all the drama wouldn’t it?!?!
 
fix,

I agree, I just cannot see how a faithful Roman Catholic school can celebrate the public example of fornication. Even though abortion is a “greater” sin, fornication is still sighted many times in Scripture as being a major sin and has always been held by the Church as a mortal sin. It makes no difference to the school if she went to confession (I pray and hope she did)–what matters to the school is that they cannot be seen as supporting and celebrating grave sin.

If we really think what she did should be celebrated, then the faith becomes worthless.
The practice of our faith has fallen quite far indeed. 😦
 
shades of gray:
Supporting sin is much different than supporting the sinners. Of course the church does not condone sin. But if all the sinners in the class were not allowed to walk in graduation, then there would be no graduating class!
It is about public sin. The others may or may not be sin. The female student did sin and was told she may not participate in the ceremony. Who is in charge? Why should anyone obey?
I also agree with others about the message to others in the school who find themselves pregnant. It would be very tempting to quietly have an abortion and avoid all the drama wouldn’t it?!?!
Again, you assertion only points to the loss of shame and modesty in our culture.
 
Let he/or/she without sin take the first step onto the stage.
 
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TPJCatholic:
fix,

I agree, I just cannot see how a faithful Roman Catholic school can celebrate the public example of fornication. Even though abortion is a “greater” sin, fornication is still sighted many times in Scripture as being a major sin and has always been held by the Church as a mortal sin. It makes no difference to the school if she went to confession (I pray and hope she did)–what matters to the school is that they cannot be seen as supporting and celebrating grave sin.

If we really think what she did should be celebrated, then the faith becomes worthless.
The practice of our faith has fallen quite far indeed. 😦
Exactly, these points on lost by most. The girl did something she should not, ok, maybe she repented, maybe not, that does not obviate the scandal or the need for her to follow school policy.

How is abortion even part of the discussion? Are to to celebrate every misbehavior so that one does not commit a worse behavior? Should those who drive home from work without robbing a store be recognized for their efforts?
 
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fix:
TPJ,

I agree completely with your assertions. I think most folks who have heard this story disagree with your view. We have come to a point in history where a student at a Catholic school fornicates, becomes pregnant, defies the school and is celebrated for her actions.

The story did not say the girl apologized for her behavior. Is fornication no longer a sin? The school may have erred in having the male student come to graduation,. but none of that excuses the female student’s behavior in any way. As another poster said we have lost the concept of shame and modesty.

We are now told to be grateful such student did not murder her child. That seems to be a new and lower standard Catholics are held to.
Well said. There is a big difference between reaching out in charity to an unwed mother and celebrating her status as unwed mother in a Catholic school.
I have dealt with many girls in the mental health system who come from public schools where getting pregnant is some sort of “badge of honor”. That’s what happens when schools allow pregnant girls to attend school along with their classmates. It becomes “cool” to have a baby out of wedlock and the pregnant girl receives lots of envious attention from her friends. There is definitely not a preventive lesson learned by seeing a classmate pregnant. In one large city where I worked, it was fashionable for girls to TRY to get pregnant by boys of another race just to be different (and rebellious toward parents). When any of these girls were asked how they planned to care for the babies, their reply was usually that their mothers would take care of the baby. No sense of responsibility. No serious relationship with the father of the baby. No thought of adoption so the baby would have a chance at a stable loving home.
In the story we are discussing here, the pregnant girl has moved into the adult world by mere fact of carrying another life in her womb. She now had adult responsibilities to think about. Her focus must be on her child. She was allowed to finish her studies and receive her diploma. That is well and good. But her priorities should not be marching across a stage in defiance but looking/planning ahead for the birth of her child. Her family may be more at fault for failing to help her see what her priorities are and for assisting in the “walk across the stage” which was simply poor manners.
 
shades of gray:
It would be very tempting to quietly have an abortion and avoid all the drama wouldn’t it?!?!
If that’s their line of thinking then they are as lost as they would be if they would have an abortion.
 
thechrismyster,

It is obviously quite trrue that we have all sinned. Yet, in this case it was a very public and knowable sin, the girl was told that she could walk and yet she did so in complete defiance (as if her sin of fornication was something to be proud of)…in addition to all that, she falt-out dis’d her school and her educators by being so publicly defiant. Such a wonderful Catholic exmaple she set.
 
fix,

I agree, we have to come to a place where we will celebrate a sinful act just because a “bigger” sinful act was not commited. It is truly the beginnig of the end if we do not turn ths ship around.

We are all sinners, yet when we sin we are supposed to be repentent and sorry for those sins and when possible we should make atonement for those sins. The girl defiantly prancing across the stage shows she likely had none of the above. We really should pray for her and the father.
 
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TPJCatholic:
thechrismyster,

It is obviously quite trrue that we have all sinned. Yet, in this case it was a very public and knowable sin, the girl was told that she could walk and yet she did so in complete defiance (as if her sin of fornication was something to be proud of)…in addition to all that, she falt-out dis’d her school and her educators by being so publicly defiant. Such a wonderful Catholic exmaple she set.
no, no, no,… your gonna break her heart… you will regret this feeling one day… you got to give people the benefit of the doubt once in a while… come on TPJ… think about this one a little more, try to put yourself in her moccasins for just (half-a-mile) and i think you might reconsider…

…we have to forgive… don’t you see?:confused:
 
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fix:
TPJ,

I agree completely with your assertions. I think most folks who have heard this story disagree with your view. We have come to a point in history where a student at a Catholic school fornicates, becomes pregnant, defies the school and is celebrated for her actions.

The story did not say the girl apologized for her behavior. Is fornication no longer a sin? The school may have erred in having the male student come to graduation,. but none of that excuses the female student’s behavior in any way. As another poster said we have lost the concept of shame and modesty.

We are now told to be grateful such student did not murder her child. That seems to be a new and lower standard Catholics are held to.
Since when is a graduation a celebration of one’s pregnancy? I thought that’s what baby showers are for.

What I want to know is, does the school have a written policy on pregnant teenagers walking at graduation? If they don’t they need to make their stance clear because this is not fair to her. She did the work, so she should have been recognized for it. I fail to see how the actions she did out side of school disqualified her from receiving recognition for her hard work.
 
StatusRose,

Simple, she was not attending a secularized public school, she was attending a Roman Catholic school, and is expected to follow
the faith. Parents pay a great deal of money to try to insure their children receive a “Catholic” education. If she was attending a secularized public school, I would say you make a good point…but your point does not work well within a private Catholic school. Her school has every right to determine what is a proper reflection of Catholic teaching and what is not.
 
What hypocricy! A good many of the posters on this topic harping about public sin were the same ones defending Cardinal Law celebrating the Novemdiales mass. Talk about public sin!
 
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TPJCatholic:
spaceghost,

IMO the Church cannot support sin. The two student parents commited sin when they had sex outside of marriage. Another way of handling this would have been to ask the mother and father to give a talk to the student body about the consequences of their actions. Yet, barring that, the students should not be placing their sin on display.
i dont think that was her intention, i think IMO her intention was to be recognized for her achievement of four years of hard work. she didnt lie down and make that baby by herself, the father should have been banned if the school wanted to be so cruel as to BAN them from graduation for making a mistake. why not ban every child who took the Lords name in vain, every child who disobeyed their parents, every child who lied or stole or cheated on a test? hey whats fair is fair right? i applaud this girl for having the bravery to stand up and take what she earned. and for having the courage to be a single mother in such a scrutinizing community that instead of supporting her shames her and tries to hide her away to put on a “we’re perfect and holier than thou” shame on them!
 
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TarAshly:
i applaud this girl for having the bravery to stand up and take what she earned. and for having the courage to be a single mother in such a scrutinizing community that instead of supporting her shames her and tries to hide her away to put on a “we’re perfect and holier than thou” shame on them!
It’s not about that. It’s about her blatant disregard for authority. The actions of the school did not violate the natural law, therefore as they are in authority over her she must submit to their rules. She is setting a very dangerous precedent for others and herself.
 
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Trelow:
It’s not about that. It’s about her blatant disregard for authority. The actions of the school did not violate the natural law, therefore as they are in authority over her she must submit to their rules. She is setting a very dangerous precedent for others and herself.
Shes standing up for herself. i applaud that. i would have done the same thing in the same situation. the only authority she must submit to is God’s authority, and unless the order came from the Vatican, she did nothing wrong.
 
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TarAshly:
Shes standing up for herself. i applaud that. i would have done the same thing in the same situation. the only authority she must submit to is God’s authority, and unless the order came from the Vatican, she did nothing wrong.
Sorry dear.

CCC
1897 “Human society can be neither well-ordered nor prosperous unless it has some people invested with legitimate authority to preserve its institutions and to devote themselves as far as is necessary to work and care for the good of all.”
By “authority” one means the quality by virtue of which persons or institutions make laws and give orders to men and expect obedience from them.

1898 Every human community needs an authority to govern it.The foundation of such authority lies in human nature. It is necessary for the unity of the state. Its role is to ensure as far as possible the common good of the society.

1899 The authority required by the moral order derives from God: “Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.”

1900 The duty of obedience requires all to give due honor to authority and to treat those who are charged to exercise it with respect, and, insofar as it is deserved, with gratitude and good-will.

Pope St. Clement of Rome provides the Church’s most ancient prayer for political authorities: “Grant to them, Lord, health, peace, concord, and stability, so that they may exercise without offense the sovereignty that you have given them. Master, heavenly King of the ages, you give glory, honor, and power over the things of earth to the sons of men. Direct, Lord, their counsel, following what is pleasing and acceptable in your sight, so that by exercising with devotion and in peace and gentleness the power that you have given to them, they may find favor with you.”

1901 If authority belongs to the order established by God, “the choice of the political regime and the appointment of rulers are left to the free decision of the citizens.”
The diversity of political regimes is morally acceptable, provided they serve the legitimate good of the communities that adopt them. Regimes whose nature is contrary to the natural law, to the public order, and to the fundamental rights of persons cannot achieve the common good of the nations on which they have been imposed.

1902 Authority does not derive its moral legitimacy from itself. It must not behave in a despotic manner, but must act for the common good as a “moral force based on freedom and a sense of responsibility”:

A human law has the character of law to the extent that it accords with right reason, and thus derives from the eternal law. Insofar as it falls short of right reason it is said to be an unjust law, and thus has not so much the nature of law as of a kind of violence.

1903 Authority is exercised legitimately only when it seeks the common good of the group concerned and if it employs morally licit means to attain it. If rulers were to enact unjust laws or take measures contrary to the moral order, such arrangements would not be binding in conscience. In such a case, “authority breaks down completely and results in shameful abuse.”

1904 “It is preferable that each power be balanced by other powers and by other spheres of responsibility which keep it within proper bounds. This is the principle of the ‘rule of law,’ in which the law is sovereign and not the arbitrary will of men.”
 
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