Pregnant Student Banned from Graduation, Walks

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tarashly,

Put it this way, if the Catholic school my son attends looked the other away about public sins like fornication, then I would pull my kid from that school–the school is there to teach and uphold the faith, not to celebrate grave sins in a public setting.

Those school adminstrators are the students superiors within that school setting and we are called to obey our superiors unless it goes against the faith or places us in some sort of peril (neither condition existed).

I have stated many times that the school made a huge mistake by not including the boy/father in their action…neither the boy, nor the girl should have been allowed to walk–there are consequences, though that fact seems to be lost on most people in our culture today. Jesus gives us all forgiveness when we ask for it and we all sin, and none of us are holier then thou, yet even though we are forgiven, there are still sometimes consequences for those sins.

BTW, I sin everyday, and am not even remotely close to being holy, yet if I commited an act like fornication in a Catholic school setting, I would expect there to be ramifications that go beyond forgiveness for my sins.
 
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mlchance:
Who says that school officials, such as teachers and principals, are in positions of authority over students? Well, that would be the Catholic Church, for starters. From the CCC:The fourth commandment is addressed expressly to children in their relationship to their father and mother, because this relationship is the most universal. It likewise concerns the ties of kinship between members of the extended family. It requires honor, affection, and gratitude toward elders and ancestors. Finally, it extends to the duties of pupils to teachers, employees to employers, subordinates to leaders, citizens to their country, and to those who administer or govern it.

This commandment includes and presupposes the duties of parents, instructors, teachers, leaders, magistrates, those who govern, all who exercise authority over others or over a community of persons.

Humility, huh? You mean like a student submitting in humility to the authority of her school to deny her the privilege to walk across the stage at graduation?

– Mark L. Chance.
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Look i still dont think what she did was disrespectful, i think she just stood up for what was right. she had forced the school to deal with the fact that their Catholic enviornment had an unwed mother in it and they tried to hide her away to save their own face. im going home for the weekend, i will dedicate my holy hour to this young lady tonight, for her patience and strength and courage in such an unforgiving hateful society, that shames her for being brave.
 
The school should have let her walk without making pregnancy an issue at all. How does letting one who is pregnant participate in graduation ceremony suddenly become an act of condoning unmarried sex? The school’s rationale just doesn’t make sense to me. Someone please explain it to me.

It seems to me that the prejudices and double-standards arising from this situation are a classic example of EXACTLY the sort of societal pressures that push young women into making the decision to have an abortion.

The school should have based participation on purely academic standards. If she earned the right to graduate, she should have been allowed to walk.
 
Robert in SD:
If she earned the right to graduate, she should have been allowed to walk.
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One doesn’t follow from the other. She earned the right to graduate; therefore, she gets a high school diploma. The school policy is what it is, and the school has the authority to include or exclude from commencement ceremonies as it deems necessary and appropriate. I doubt the school’s policy was a surprise or a secret. It’s not like she was put on double secret probation.

She got pregnant. She was basically kicked out of school. This is pretty much SOP for every Catholic high school. It’s happened to more than one of my former students.

– Mark L. Chance.
 
Robert,

The sin was fornication, not pregnancy. The school rightly judged that a pregnant student in school presents a scandal of sorts because that person commited forncication (along with the boy/father). It is hard enough to allow that girl to remain in school (I would not let her or the boy attend school until after the baby was born). We are to live by example, so is the school, and the school rightly judged that the girl would present fornication as being acceptable if she walked. She and the boy should not have walked and they should have been expelled from the school until her baby was born. Abortion arguments are not valid because abortion is murder and murder is never on the table for resolving problems that our sins cause.

The girl got just what she wanted, she managed to make herself be a hero and appear brave even though she and the boy were the ones who commited the sin. Our culture expects never to have any consequences and this girls proves that point, she expected no consequences to such an extreme that she defiantly ignore the orders of her superiors to make a point.
 
What troubles me about some of the replies I am reading is the recurrent theme that she sinned, she fornicated, she was parading her sin in public, etc. via her obvious pregnant state. Since when is the biological activity of a pregnancy a sin? She’s pregnant. That’s not the sin. Some of the posters here are coming dangerously close to the bad old days of condemning or looking down and despising a “Love Child”. Sure, she sinned. No doubt about it. True, pregnancy is a result of sex, but the pregnancy isn’t a sin unto itself.

I will also state this: How much punishment is enough? Do we deny the yet-unborn child the opportunity in the future to play, school, or associate with children of “non-sinning” married couples because of the circumstances of his or her conception?

How do any of us dare to assume that she isn’t sorry for what she did or that she didn’t seek counseling or go to confession? Only God knows.

It isn’t up to any of us to continue to castigate and chastize the girl. Alot of the replies here don’t even address the culpable father. Both were equally, and I repeat, equally responsible. The school made a serious blunder when it didn’t address the young man. I am sure it wasn’t kept a big secret by the mother of the child, and given how scuttlebut is among kids, I am sure even more than a few of the educators knew. Why didn’t they address that part of the issue? Instead, they chose to throw proverbial rocks at the “fallen woman” while the guilty male participant basically got off scott-free.

Another thing:

How does anyone know the motives of the girl? I hear arguments that she was up there flaunting her sinful state. Did anyone think that perhaps she had the time to reflect on all of the inequities and hypocrisy of her shouldering the brunt of it all when the boy who impregnated her didn’t shoulder 1/10 of the fallout for what he did? I personally feel she was reacting to the injustice of it all: Boy can’t show pregnancy, boy gets to walk at graduation. Girl shows pregnancy, girl isn’t allowed to walk. Sure, she made a statement, and perhaps it wasn’t right, but then I don’t think it was as much an advertisement for unwed motherhood as it was for the right to walk if the father could walk, the right to be recognized for completing the requirements for a high school diploma. It is a right of passage that she was denied. You can argue that she brought it on her own self, but so did the boy and he isn’t suffering any of the fallout for his equal participation in the sin.
 
You know this reminds me of the joke where the parents are gathered together talking about the woes their children are giving them. Some had pregnant teens, some had alcoholic teens, some have drop-outs, some had thiefs, you name it. But each says at the end: “…but Thank God, at least he/she isn’t doing drugs!”

The point is that abortion is not the issue here. And if your only goal is to be able to say “Well, at least she didn’t have an abortion.” then you need to set your expectations a little bit higher!

The issue here is that the school did not want to set this girl up as a peer to follow. She isn’t doing anything brave or to be proud of - she’s out having sex and a baby that may not ever have a father! She shouldn’t be treated like dirt, but she sure isn’t a hero either. She’s just another sinner who’s going to have to live with the consequences of her sins.

As for whoever the father is… Suffice to say, life isn’t fair and she isn’t a victim. If she wanted to be able to share a future with him - she should have waited for a wedding ring, otherwise she was taking a big risk having sex with him and lost. I would hope he steps up to the plate like a man and they do get married and live happy ever after - but odds have always been against it actually happening.

Wouldn’t surprise me at all to learn he did and she didn’t want to marry him. Honestly, I am more likely to feel sorry for the father of her baby than her. Seems like all girls really want these days is a check in tha mail. I know, I know that’s harsh, but that doesn’t mean it’s not true either.

I’m all for her having the baby and getting her degree, but no one needed her obvious sin paraded across the stage like some sort of victory dance against the catholic school as though she shoudl be a source of inspiration to her peers.
 
Marilyn,

Please take the time to read the posts and you will see that everyone here is aware that the pregnancy is not the sin–the fornication was the sin. If that girl was truly repentant, she should not have disobeyed the school–that is NOT a very Catholic action. The school has every right to govern the school, yet she basically said “no they don’t.” I hope she confessed her sin, along with the boy; I also hope she made things right with God, yet frankly that is not my business. I only know that she made a very visible and public mortal sin (along with the boy) and then chose to make it worse by spitting in the faces of her school adminstrators. She was not going to have her diploma withdrawn, she was just asked not to walk the graduation ceremony–the school was perfectly within theri rights to do that and she should have obeyed!
 
Now, that isn’t right. She could have been repentant for the sin she committed that resulted in her pregnancy, but outraged that she was targeted to be the only one of two participants in that sin to not be allowed to walk. That boy should be held just as responsible, and he wasn’t. It’s the attitude that it’s HER sin that’s being paraded is just bunk. True, the RESULTS of her sin is there for all to see. It’s still wrong to give the larger measure of fault against her, though. True, the school has it’s say on who does or doesn’t walk, I never said that it didn’t. Perhaps she wasn’t right to walk, but I can understand it if she felt that she was being the one to bear the major brunt of it all.

But, I will maintain that the school is making an implied statement that the burden or majority of the fault lies on the Mother’s head, and the message I see given is that the female is more responsible than the male in these situations, faulty thinking and a truly uncharitable double-standard. Both share in the sinning equally and the banishment from participating in the graduation should have been borne by the both of them.
 
  1. And the high school administrators and counselors bring unto Him a girl taken in fornication; and they set her in the midst,
  2. And said to Him: Master, this girl was taken in fornication, and behold, even now she is with child.
  3. Now, the bylaws and rules of the school commanded us that such a one cannot attend the graduation ceremony. But what sayest thou?
  4. And they said this tempting Him, that they might justify themselves. But Jesus bowing Himself down, wrote with His finger on the ground.
  5. When therefore they continued asking Him, he lifted up himself, and said to them: He that is without sin among you, let him first cross the graduation stage.
  6. And again stooping down, He wrote on the ground.
  7. But they hearing this, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest. And Jesus alone remained, and the girl standing in the midst.
  8. Then Jesus lifting up Himself, said to her: Child, where are they that accused thee? Hath no one condemned thee?
  9. And she replied: No one, Lord. And Jesus said: Neither will I condemn thee. Go, and now sin no more.
 
  1. "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung round his neck and he were thrown into the sea.
 
How would Catholics feel if Hillary Clinto gave a speech at that School? Should she be allowed to give the speech?
 
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TPJCatholic:
How would Catholics feel if Hillary Clinto gave a speech at that School? Should she be allowed to give the speech?
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Hillary Clinton has been invited to speak at several Catholic Universities and there has been protest and anger from faithful Catholics.
 
fitz,

Yes, I am aware that there has been much outrage from Catholics when Hillary has spoken at Catholic universitie. But, why is that so?
 
Wolseley said:
3. And the high school administrators and counselors bring unto Him a girl taken in fornication; and they set her in the midst,
  1. And said to Him: Master, this girl was taken in fornication, and behold, even now she is with child.
  2. Now, the bylaws and rules of the school commanded us that such a one cannot attend the graduation ceremony. But what sayest thou?
  3. And they said this tempting Him, that they might justify themselves. But Jesus bowing Himself down, wrote with His finger on the ground.
  4. When therefore they continued asking Him, he lifted up himself, and said to them: He that is without sin among you, let him first cross the graduation stage.
  5. And again stooping down, He wrote on the ground.
  6. But they hearing this, went out one by one, beginning at the eldest. And Jesus alone remained, and the girl standing in the midst.
  7. Then Jesus lifting up Himself, said to her: Child, where are they that accused thee? Hath no one condemned thee?
  8. And she replied: No one, Lord. And Jesus said: Neither will I condemn thee. Go, and now sin no more.
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1897 “Human society can be neither well-ordered nor prosperous unless it has some people invested with legitimate authority to preserve its institutions and to devote themselves as far as is necessary to work and care for the good of all.”
By “authority” one means the quality by virtue of which persons or institutions make laws and give orders to men and expect obedience from them.

1898 Every human community needs an authority to govern it.The foundation of such authority lies in human nature. It is necessary for the unity of the state. Its role is to ensure as far as possible the common good of the society.

1899 The authority required by the moral order derives from God: “Let every person be subject to the governing authorities. For there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been instituted by God. Therefore he who resists the authorities resists what God has appointed, and those who resist will incur judgment.”

1900 The duty of obedience requires all to give due honor to authority and to treat those who are charged to exercise it with respect, and, insofar as it is deserved, with gratitude and good-will.

Pope St. Clement of Rome provides the Church’s most ancient prayer for political authorities: “Grant to them, Lord, health, peace, concord, and stability, so that they may exercise without offense the sovereignty that you have given them. Master, heavenly King of the ages, you give glory, honor, and power over the things of earth to the sons of men. Direct, Lord, their counsel, following what is pleasing and acceptable in your sight, so that by exercising with devotion and in peace and gentleness the power that you have given to them, they may find favor with you.”
 
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TPJCatholic:
fitz,

Yes, I am aware that there has been much outrage from Catholics when Hillary has spoken at Catholic universitie. But, why is that so?
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I think it is a problem because she is so prochoice, not at all because of her political party.
 
fiktz,

I agree, the problem with Hillary has nothing to do with her being a dem, it has to do with her rabidly prochoice positions, which goes completely against formal Catholic teachings. No Catholic school should ever allow her to speak at their school for that one reason alone (though there are many others). To allow Hillary to speak would be a form of supporting her anti-life positions. Similarly, to allow the pregnant girl to walk (along with the boy/father) is a sign that the school is supporting their sin of fornication…NO Catholic school should ever do that.

If Hillary publicly repented and changed her position on life issues, then she would be welcomed to speak; likewise, if the girl and boy publicly repented they likely would have been welcomed to walk during their graduation.

This has nothing to do with whether they went to confession, that is between them and God (I can only pray and hope they did confess). It has to do with the fact that the school is their to teach and set an example for the entire student body and they are supposed to be hold students accountable for their actions–that is one of their core purposes…without that, the school becomes worthless in terms of propogating the faith.

It is NOT about man versus woman, it is not about abortion, it is not about gender equality or any silly things people try to apply to this situation…it is about a Catholic school’s call to teach, apply and defend the faith–that is their solemn duty and responsibility and it is supposed to be applied to all faculty members and students equally. The boy/father should be held equally responsible and culpable.
 
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TPJCatholic:
fitz,
Similarly, to allow the pregnant girl to walk (along with the boy/father) is a sign that the school is supporting their sin of fornication…NO Catholic school should ever do that.
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We are in agreement here. I have had 3 daughters graduate from Catholic HS and no one that was obvioiusly pregnant walked accross stage. I never heard of any instances that were happening. I have a son that is a freshman in Catholic HS and one day when I picked him up from track Relevant Radio was on and they were talking about this situation. We talked about it and agreed that the boy should not have walked either.

It is not because the girl isn’t forgiven her sins. It is not because we need to punish further. It is the scandal. It is advertising the wrong message. She did get her diploma. I think if the school had handled it properly then perhaps she might not have gotten willfull. The boy should not have walked. Mixed messages are bad at that age. I don’t like how her mom encouraged her to walk accross in definace. Supporting her daughter is her main concern, but she went about it in the wrong way.

I commend the girl for choosing life. I pray God helps her get over her spite against establishment as we would have said years ago. Otherwise she will have many unnecessary challenges.

TPJ, I do agree with you.
 
fitz,

🙂 Thank you, I agree with all you said. I will add that I think people need to recall that this event happened at Catholic school, not a public school…
 
TPJCatholic said:
42. "Whoever causes one of these little ones who believe in me to sin, it would be better for him if a great millstone were hung round his neck and he were thrown into the sea.
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Exactly. Feelings trump the truth. False notions of inequality trump legitimate authority. It is all about me.

What is the message people are getting from this story? They are thinking that the “poor” girl was discriminated against, that the boy got off without penalty and that the greater issue is the female student’s desire to walk across the stage.

It seems many think fornication is to be minimized, legitimate authority is to be obeyed if it is consistent with one’s feelings and scandal is not even on the radar screen.

If the father can be authenticated, then he too should be banned, but that is another matter. If the female student thought being banned was unwarranted, she should have approached it in a legitimate way. Catholic schools need to be Catholic, not PC.
 
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