President Obama to receive honorary degree from Notre Dame

[Ronald_E]

So killing children before they leave the womb before they have even a chance at life is better?

Don’t twist my words just because you want to be right. Killing children no matter when is wrong. Work on an intelligent solution instead of trying to be right, or you can continue to argue the obvious correctness of your point and then nothing constructive will be accomplished.
What I see is that those who oppose Obama coming to ND is that they are masters of the obvious but do not present any constructive solutions other than being outraged and attacking Fr. Jenkins and wanting to punish him in some way. That makes my beautiful faith look stupid and prevents the pro-life movement from being more effective.

 

[madabkr4tx]

Don’t twist my words just because you want to be right. Killing children no matter when is wrong. Work on an intelligent solution instead of trying to be right, or you can continue to argue the obvious correctness of your point and then nothing constructive will be accomplished.
What I see is that those who oppose Obama coming to ND is that they are masters of the obvious but do not present any constructive solutions other than being outraged and attacking Fr. Jenkins and wanting to punish him in some way. That makes my beautiful faith look stupid and prevents the pro-life movement from being more effective.

So now abortion is pro life?

 

[Ronald_E]

The children are, and the last time I checked, abortion is a choice. As is conception of a child in the first place.

Everything you stated is obvious. Let’s move beyond the obvious. You are not saying anything I do not know and I agree with.

 

[madabkr4tx]

Everything you stated is obvious. Let’s move beyond the obvious. You are not saying anything I do not know and I agree with.

Apparently, its not obvious. You say abortion is wrong but you support a man and an organization that says it should be legal. To me that’s a little backwards.

 

[Ronald_E]

So now abortion is pro life?

What are you reacting to? Stop twisting my words and give me a sense that you know what causes abortion; what is you understanding of the culture of death; and, what is the solution to abortion based on your understanding of the whole picture?

 

[bbarrick8383]

How do you know that 54% of Catholics lost their moral compass or that their consciences were not well-formed?
For example, women bring life into the world. What happens to women when they live in a world of suffering, disease, war, torture and they are targets for the vast majority of violence and have no power to stop what males have created?
All of the above represent the obvious examples of the culture of death. As long as those are not addressed and resolved it will be unsafe for women to bring their children into the world. 15,000,000 children die each year before they reach the age of 5. That is the culture of death.
Those who support Obama coming to Notre Dame have a well-formed conscience because they know that communication about the common good is the beginning of healing suffering and creating an environment where it is safe for women to bring children into the world.

Because it is unsafe for a child does not mean you do not have them, or abort them. It may be the children that stop the war, or cure the disease. Your post is illogical. It is up to us to protect them to our fullest extent in hopes that they become better than we are.

 

[Luis_Santiago]

Apparently, its not obvious. You say abortion is wrong but you support a man and an organization that says it should be legal. To me that’s a little backwards.

I think the point is that you appear to be more concerned with being right than you are with offering solutions to the problem of abortion.

 

[bbarrick8383]

What are you reacting to? Stop twisting my words and give me a sense that you know what causes abortion; what is you understanding of the culture of death; and, what is the solution to abortion based on your understanding of the whole picture?

I’m curious as to what you think are the causes of abortion? Poverty? That is an excuse, I’ve been there, I’ve fed my children because I chose to have them. The fact is abortion is caused by a lack of knowledge and faith. It should be illegal, and any woman that wishes to abort her child should go through the same sort of counseling a suicidal person would go through. Rape and Incest? Very rare that an abortion is from a woman who has been raped and even rarer from a woman whose experienced incest. Put the child up for adoption, if you dont want it.

 

[madabkr4tx]

I think the point is that you appear to be more concerned with being right than you are with offering solutions to the problem of abortion.

If conceding this argument would save any lives, I would, but this is not the case. Again how does supporting abortion… end abortion?

 

[Ronald_E]

Because it is unsafe for a child does not mean you do not have them, or abort them. It may be the children that stop the war, or cure the disease. Your post is illogical. It is up to us to protect them to our fullest extent in hopes that they become better than we are.

The problem is you do not know how to protect them. You still offer no solution, just more of the same rhetoric that continues to fill the airwaves. You do not offer an understanding of what you think causes abortions and therefore, you cannot offer a solution that would be helpful. My post is illogical to you because you refuse to understand and address all the causes that lead to an intrinsic evil. If you do not take care of the causes of intrinsic evil then you cannot stop the intrinsic evil.
What is the fullest extent that you propose to protect them?

 

[madabkr4tx]

The problem is you do not know how to protect them. You still offer no solution, just more of the same rhetoric that continues to fill the airwaves. You do not offer an understanding of what you think causes abortions and therefore, you cannot offer a solution that would be helpful. My post is illogical to you because you refuse to understand and address all the causes that lead to an intrinsic evil. If you do not take care of the causes of intrinsic evil then you cannot stop the intrinsic evil.
What is the fullest extent that you propose to protect them?

I think you are operating on the false premise that poverty leads to abortion. I don’t think this is the case.

 

[bbarrick8383]

The problem is you do not know how to protect them. You still offer no solution, just more of the same rhetoric that continues to fill the airwaves. You do not offer an understanding of what you think causes abortions and therefore, you cannot offer a solution that would be helpful. My post is illogical to you because you refuse to understand and address all the causes that lead to an intrinsic evil. If you do not take care of the causes of intrinsic evil then you cannot stop the intrinsic evil.
What is the fullest extent that you propose to protect them?

I do not know how to protect them? Do you have children sir? The rest of your arguement is pointless if you do not. As a matter of fact, your whole logic and reasoning is just plain stupid.

 

[Ronald_E]

I’m curious as to what you think are the causes of abortion? Poverty? That is an excuse, I’ve been there, I’ve fed my children because I chose to have them. The fact is abortion is caused by a lack of knowledge and faith. It should be illegal, and any woman that wishes to abort her child should go through the same sort of counseling a suicidal person would go through. Rape and Incest? Very rare that an abortion is from a woman who has been raped and even rarer from a woman whose experienced incest. Put the child up for adoption, if you dont want it.

You have no idea. Your lack of empathy for the suffering people of the world is apparent when you say poverty is an excuse. You blame those who are created to bring life into the world because they have a lack of knowledge and faith.
THE CULTURE OF DEATH IS ANYTHING THAT DOES NOT SUPPORT LIFE AND THOSE WHO ARE CREATED TO BRING LIFE INTO THE WORLD.
Start from there.

 

[Luis_Santiago]

If conceding this argument would save any lives, I would, but this is not the case. Again how does supporting abortion… end abortion?

The position you are taking seems to belie a lack of compassion, or a lack of understanding of the circumstances that would lead a woman to do such a horrible thing. Now, I know your knee-jerk reaction will be that you have compassion for the aborted children, but this is not enough. As Christ teaches us, we must also have compassion for the sinners.

The decision to abort a child is most often made, not out of malice but out of fear. Fear of becoming an outcast, fear of rejection by the girl’s family and friends, and fear of not being capable of raising a child.

I mentioned earlier the situation in Chile, where terrified young girls are sent to jail for attempting abortion, some of whom surely are not even guilty. This cannot be the solution. You might think these girls are murderers, but treating them as such isn’t right. It can’t be right. This isn’t what Christ taught. I remember hearing of a girl who aborted her child. She was poor, and lived in one of the slums of Santiago. She said she did it because she knew that if she had the child, he would grow up like his father and would not be saved. She said her own soul was forfeit, but that she wanted her child to be with Jesus. Even the thought of this brings tears to my eyes now. We must have compassion for these girls, we have no choice. Even though I am opposed to abortion as well, maybe you can see why I am not so eager to see the implementation of laws such as they have in Chile. Surely we can oppose abortion without resorting to this.

I hear a lot of people say adoption is the solution. Maybe this is true for people of European descent in the United States. But for the blacks in the United States and for the indians in Chile, there are few that would want to adopt their child. Adoption is part of the solution, but it isn’t the total solution. We need more solutions then just this.

 

[bbarrick8383]

You have no idea. Your lack of empathy for the suffering people of the world is apparent when you say poverty is an excuse. You blame those who are created to bring life into the world because they have a lack of knowledge and faith.
THE CULTURE OF DEATH IS ANYTHING THAT DOES NOT SUPPORT LIFE AND THOSE WHO ARE CREATED TO BRING LIFE INTO THE WORLD.
Start from there.

I have empathy for those truly suffering in the world. But there is no excuse to kill a child. Poverty in America is an excuse. This world is a Culture of Life, and it is being stomped out by the reasoning of you and the upcoming culture of death that you spew. You need a reality check.

 

[mapleoak]

What happens to women when they live in a world of suffering, disease, war, torture and they are targets for the vast majority of violence and have no power to stop what males have created?

What specifically have males created?

All of the above represent the obvious examples of the culture of death. As long as those are not addressed and resolved it will be unsafe for women to bring their children into the world.

These are all important things to address and the most important thing to address is that which is a direct cause of death to millions of people. If there were a “world of suffering” it would not be equivalent to the direct and intentional murder of human beings, especially on the grand scale in which abortion exists today.

15,000,000 children die each year before they reach the age of 5. That is the culture of death.

Of that how many of them are directly murdered? How many directly murdered through government sanctioned and voter blessed policy?

Those who support Obama coming to Notre Dame have a well-formed conscience because they know that communication about the common good is the beginning of healing suffering and creating an environment where it is safe for women to bring children into the world.

Those who support Obama coming to Notre Dame show by their action a disregard for the unborn. Someone who supports killing a parent’s child has no business even being President of a country, let alone being honored.

 

[Ronald_E]

I do not know how to protect them? Do you have children sir? The rest of your arguement is pointless if you do not. As a matter of fact, your whole logic and reasoning is just plain stupid.

Thank you for your patient attempt to understand what I am saying.
Regardless of whether or not I have children, my responsibility is to all the children who suffer in the world. 15,000,000 children die each year before the age of 5. We never see them or hear of them. That is abortion. Do you care for them as much as you say you care for the 40,000,000 children who have been aborted in our society since Roe v Wade?
Consequently, since I do not do enough for any child in my life of denial for all humanity then I am a part of the culture of death. If I neglect anyone suffering that I know of I am a part of the culture of death. If I worry more about what is mine and do not sacrifice more to help those in need then I am a part of the culture of death.
I am a part of the culture of death because I want to retain my own comfort and do the minimal that eases my conscience.

 

[madabkr4tx]

The position you are taking seems to belie a lack of compassion, or a lack of understanding of the circumstances that would lead a woman to do such a horrible thing. Now, I know your knee-jerk reaction will be that you have compassion for the aborted children, but this is not enough. As Christ teaches us, we must also have compassion for the sinners.

The decision to abort a child is most often made, not out of malice but out of fear. Fear of becoming an outcast, fear of rejection by the girl’s family and friends, and fear of not being capable of raising a child.

I mentioned earlier the situation in Chile, where terrified young girls are sent to jail for attempting abortion, some of whom surely are not even guilty. This cannot be the solution. You might think these girls are murderers, but treating them as such isn’t right. It can’t be right. This isn’t what Christ taught. I remember hearing of a girl who aborted her child. She was poor, and lived in one of the slums of Santiago. She said she did it because she knew that if she had the child, he would grow up like his father and would not be saved. She said her own soul was forfeit, but that she wanted her child to be with Jesus. Even the thought of this brings tears to my eyes now. We must have compassion for these girls, we have no choice. Even though I am opposed to abortion as well, maybe you can see why I am not so eager to see the implementation of laws such as they have in Chile. Surely we can oppose abortion without resorting to this.

I hear a lot of people say adoption is the solution. Maybe this is true for people of European descent in the United States. But for the blacks in the United States and for the indians in Chile, there are few that would want to adopt their child. Adoption is part of the solution, but it isn’t the total solution. We need more solutions then just this.

You seem to be lacking compassion for the thousands of human beings who are murdered every day. Again HOW CAN YOU CONDONE ABORTION AND OPPOSE IT AT THE SAME TIME?

I speak for those who cannot speak for themselves.

 

[mapleoak]

The problem is you do not know how to protect them. You still offer no solution, just more of the same rhetoric that continues to fill the airwaves. You do not offer an understanding of what you think causes abortions and therefore, you cannot offer a solution that would be helpful. My post is illogical to you because you refuse to understand and address all the causes that lead to an intrinsic evil. If you do not take care of the causes of intrinsic evil then you cannot stop the intrinsic evil.
What is the fullest extent that you propose to protect them?

When you are bleeding to death because your arm has been cut off, do you put a bandage on the scratch on your knee?
Stop the murder.

 

[mapleoak]

The position you are taking seems to belie a lack of compassion, or a lack of understanding of the circumstances that would lead a woman to do such a horrible thing. Now, I know your knee-jerk reaction will be that you have compassion for the aborted children, but this is not enough. As Christ teaches us, we must also have compassion for the sinners.

The decision to abort a child is most often made, not out of malice but out of fear. Fear of becoming an outcast, fear of rejection by the girl’s family and friends, and fear of not being capable of raising a child.

It is most often caused by self interest (fear of rejection by friends, …). That is no excuse for killing someone else. That is why we need laws to protect the unborn from those who believe it is okay to kill them.