President Trump's pro-life proclamation

Status
Not open for further replies.
You don’t know that’s the company’s problem. You are again making assumptions. Maybe it’s a lousy company or maybe it’s having the same problem many employers have reported for many years now: too many people just don’t want to work.

I’ve already given an example of a company that has the same problem over and over of men working for a couple weeks or a month and then abruptly disappearing. The manager said it’s usually the state catching up looking for child support. So the men go on to the next job to avoid having their wages garnished to pay for the children they’re fathering.

I’ve seen it first hand: a college student who took a job as a waiter and high handedly informed the manager he didn’t wash tables because he had a college degree.

I wonder that you’re so determined to act as if such people don’t exist and to always blame the company.
 
Poet said:
You don’t know that’s the company’s problem. You are again making assumptions. Maybe it’s a lousy company or maybe it’s having the same problem many employers have reported for many years now: too many people just don’t want to work.
Click to expand...
I’m going to go to an absurd extreme for as second here. Do you think those lazy people would work for $1000/hr? I bet they would. I bet they’d do a lot to hold onto an amazing job like that.

Do you think they’d do the job for $500/hr? Maybe you’d lose a couple but I bet the vast majority would do the job for that absolutely incredible amount of pay.

How about $100/hr?
$50?
$25?
$10?
$0?

You can imagine a chart I bet, of ‘willingness to do the job’ and the % of people at least pay level, and how it’d taper off as pay got lower. So when people say “many people just don’t want to work” there’s an implied “for what we’re offering”. And back to my original statement, “a company isn’t entitle to people’s labor”, you have to pay an amount that gets you the type of workers you need. If the company isn’t getting those workers you can blame people all you want, you can call them lazy and insist they have an inflated sense of entitlement, but you still have to fill those positions somehow. What’s your solution?

I’m not pinning the whole thing on the company, you’re misunderstanding. I’m asking how else you expect the company to fill those positions?
 
He has cut funding for Planned Parenthood, so i think that’s an obvious action.
 
Poet said:
And I’d still like to know what it has to do with Donald Trump defending the unborn, which is a good thing.
Click to expand...
What I see over and over on this forum (not just this thread) is that people are not willing to give Pres. Trump much if any credit for any pro-life activity because they believe that he advocates policies that hurt the poor, the refugees and immigrants, the undereducated, the sick, and all other people in need.

In other words, all his conservative policies negate his pro-life policies because they supposedly make life hard or even impossible for many people who are already born.

Well, what I keep wondering is that for years and years, the “liberal” policies have been the norm in much of the United States, and people are poor, sicker, less-educated, and less employed than ever. Then Pres. Trump comes along and rams through some conservative policies, and now we have historically low unemployment rates in states–AND pro-life policies and activity!

Of course, the argument is, “Well, those are low-income jobs.” Sigh. I guess having no job and no hope of a job is better than having a (disdainful tone of voice) “low-income job.”

What I hear people saying is that if you can’t make a living wage, then don’t bother to work. Just stay home and let others take care of you. I find this unacceptable for Americans unless they are elderly or ill. With free public school throughout the entire country, there is simply no excuse for not obtaining an education and seeking work, and starting at the bottom and working your way up to a decent lifestyle. For every person that can’t seem to find gainful employment, there is another person who can testify that they started out with nothing or very little and through sheer determination and hard work/study, they have found a job/career and maintain a lifestyle that is acceptable to them and allows them to work and play at activities that they enjoy.
 
Dan123 said:
You can imagine a chart I bet, of ‘willingness to do the job’ and the % of people at least pay level, and how it’d taper off as pay got lower. So when people say “many people just don’t want to work” there’s an implied “for what we’re offering”. And back to my original statement, “a company isn’t entitle to people’s labor”, you have to pay an amount that gets you the type of workers you need. If the company isn’t getting those workers you can blame people all you want, you can call them lazy and insist they have an inflated sense of entitlement, but you still have to fill those positions somehow. What’s your solution?

I’m not pinning the whole thing on the company, you’re misunderstanding. I’m asking how else you expect the company to fill those positions?
Click to expand...
You seem to have a misunderstanding, too.

In many companies, not just factories, workers start out in the lowest position, perhaps sweeping floors and doing dirty work, and they start with a relatively low salary. The company does not know the worker, so they start him/her out at the bottom so they can assess their abilities and “fit” for the job.

It’s up to the worker to prove to the company that he/she is serious about working, industrious, ambitious, willing to put out extra effort, go the extra mile, and do it all with a good attitude. And a good company, a company that succeeds in producing a good product that is in demand, will recognize a good worker and move him/her UP the company ladder that earns a higher salary.

Perhaps you find this horrible, but I think it’s typical of many American companies and organizations. My daughter didn’t start out as a Broadway entertainment professional. Her first theater job was “managing the house,” which means getting the printed programs stacked up and passing them out, and then keeping an eye out for audience members who needed to be escorted in or out, making sure the bathrooms were clean and stocked, keeping the temperature comfortable, etc.–all the “housework” type jobs. No glamour, and very little pay, but necessary. As she proved that she was good at her job, she was given the opportunity to work on the actual production as an assistant to the director and stage manager.

I remember attending one of the shows that she was working on, and the owner of the theater told us, “I was so impressed that she didn’t need to be told to go mop up the stage blood–she just did it without being asked.”

Would you consider this theater owner “unfair” or “unjust” because he didn’t start her out right away working with the production at a reasonable salary, but started her out with the “grunt work?” And how many other people did this person employ who ended up quitting because they didn’t have the opportunity to do actual production work or to be on the stage themselves getting the applause?

It just makes sense–the Bible talks about “precept upon precept.” When people first start working, especially people who have no training or education, they expect to start at the bottom and prove themselves.

THAT"S how companies fill those positions–as someone moves up, someone else moves in.
 
Last edited:
Peeps said:
It just makes sense–the Bible talks about “precept upon precept.” When people first start working, especially people who have no training or education, they expect to start at the bottom and prove themselves.
Click to expand...
I, too, have dealt with the phenomenon of “people who think they’re too good to do the job”.

In my fairly brief stint as a retail manager (less than a year), our store had every scut task imaginable, and we did not have outside stockers or janitorial services. We did it all. My people were paid minimum wage plus commission. Managers didn’t do much better. One of the jobs was keeping the restroom clean. Customers would occasionally ask to use it as well, and it wasn’t really a public restroom, but shoppers have certain expectations. I told the staff that the restroom has to be cleaned, and none of us here — myself included — are too good to do it. I told them that we would each take our turn cleaning it weekly (it wasn’t used that much), and that I would start the schedule by cleaning it myself, which I did. This was not well-received at all. They preferred to visit with each other, and loaf, and take smoke breaks, when they weren’t taking care of customers. Stocking shelves, tagging items, and cleaning the store — not their cup of tea. Guess who ended up doing most of the “heavy lifting”. It was impossible to motivate people at that kind of salary, and I did not have the luxury of hiring and firing my own people. They reasoned “if I’m going to have to work for minimum wage, I’m not doing squat”, and granted, commissions were hard to come by —our products were not the kind of things that customers had to have to live, and days could go by with hardly any sales at all.
 
Dan123 said:
I’m going to go to an absurd extreme for as second here. Do you think those lazy people would work for $1000/hr? I bet they would. I bet they’d do a lot to hold onto an amazing job like that.
Click to expand...
Yes, you are determined to go to extremes and you even admit, absurd ones. It seems to me that you just like to argue and once you get on the side of Orange Man Bad, you’ll go until your last breath, no matter where it takes you. I, however, actually have children to raise and work to attend to. I’m tired of your extremes and clear bias.

Is it good that a United States President spoke out for the unborn or not? I say it is.
 
HomeschoolDad said:
It was impossible to motivate people at that kind of salary,
Click to expand...
I was their new manager. I don’t know how the former manager handled cleaning the restroom, IIRC it was pretty squalid, indicating that it was seldom or never cleaned. My understanding of how the superior/subordinate relationship goes, is that you do what you are told to do, and you recognize that a new superior may have different requirements, than what you were used to under your old boss. If that’s not acceptable, either find a new job, or go over your new boss’s head and complain to his manager. I can tell you that if anyone had done the latter, he would have told them “HSD is your new manager, I expect you to support him and do what he tells you — the restroom is part of the store and it’s your job to keep it clean”.

As I said, they just wanted to do minimal work, and spend the rest of their time visiting and socializing. Their reasoning was that if you’re going to pay me that little, I am going to be very leisurely about my job, and not do one thing I can possibly get by with not doing. (It was very hard to earn enough commission to make it worth your while to work that much harder.)
Click to expand...
 
I agree it’s an important issue - but income inequality and racism is more devastating to society at this point. Trump is cutting social programs and cares little for immigrants and minorities which make up a huge part of the population - you can’t have a President that only cares about one segment of the population (Catholics) Abortions are on the decline since 2005 (look it up!!)
 
Excuse me, Jeanne, but I am Catholic. And abortion is important. But there are other important things in this country. Many go to sleep hungry because they are unable to provide for themselves. Many sleep on the street because they cannot find shelter. Many are hated by others for one reason or another. Many are out of work. Many who can find work labor at a wage that is hardly capable of sustaining a family. These are just a few issues that need to be addressed. And they are Catholic issues.
 
HomeschoolDad said:
I was their new manager. I don’t know how the former manager handled cleaning the restroom, IIRC it was pretty squalid, indicating that it was seldom or never cleaned. My understanding of how the superior/subordinate relationship goes, is that you do what you are told to do, and you recognize that a new superior may have different requirements, than what you were used to under your old boss. If that’s not acceptable, either find a new job, or go over your new boss’s head and complain to his manager. I can tell you that if anyone had done the latter, he would have told them “HSD is your new manager, I expect you to support him and do what he tells you — the restroom is part of the store and it’s your job to keep it clean”.

As I said, they just wanted to do minimal work, and spend the rest of their time visiting and socializing. Their reasoning was that if you’re going to pay me that little, I am going to be very leisurely about my job, and not do one thing I can possibly get by with not doing. (It was very hard to earn enough commission to make it worth your while to work that much harder.)
Click to expand...
One of our problems is that minimum wage was never meant to be a living wage–it was a starting wage mainly for teenagers taking their first job, and also for people who had little schooling and/or job experience and needed to get started in the working world.

But people nowadays expect that everyone who works should be making enough money to support themselves.

What this has done is essentially end teenage hires, especially since there are so many restrictions on what they can actually be allowed to DO at any given job.

I think we also have created a generation of younger people who have no concept of hard work. Many come from broken homes–income level doesn’t matter, because 50% of all couples divorce! This means that children are shuffled back and forth and parents are trying hard to be their “friends” rather than parents. Very few dads are willing to tell Junior that “this Saturday, you and I will be cleaning out the garage and getting the yard ready for spring. I’ll need you up and ready to work by 7:00 a.m. and plan to do a lot of heavy lifting and cleaning!”

Chances are good the child will report dear ol’ dad to Child Protective Services, and dad will be charged with slave labor and abuse!

So it’s no wonder that employees refuse to clean a bathroom.
 
Last edited:
Rau said:
No one will take kindly to a request to clean toilets unless it was evident when they took the job that such a task was part of the job.
Click to expand...
No.

Most job descriptions include a phrase that reads, “…and do such tasks as the manager deems necessary and in keeping with the training and experience of the employee.”

I work as a medical technologist in a hospital lab. I have a B.S. in Biology/Medical Technology, and over 35 years of experience.

And along with reading Gram stains, reading plates (to determine which microorganisms are growing), doing susceptibility testing, running instruments, processing TB specimens, setting up hundreds of cultures every day, etc.—I unpack boxes and clean the storeroom.

We don’t clean the bathrooms, as there is a housekeeping staff. But we do change the toilet paper, and we pick up paper towels that have fallen on the floor or around the toilet. And if there is a need, we call housekeeping or maintenance (e.g., stopped up potty).

Work is good. Human beings were created to work. We need to keep in mind that God put Adam to work BEFORE the fall! Work was not a result of sin, it was good before sin entered the world.

And what does this have to do with the topic? TRUMP WORKS HARD! Supposedly he only sleeps 3-4 hours out of the 24, and the rest of the time, he is working, and he drives his people to work hard. I like that. I think it’s one reason why we have pro-life policies and activities from this President–he has a good work ethic and he doesn’t keep putting it off and using the excuse that we have more pressing issues.

And think about it–he did this Proclamation even though he is undergoing an impeachment trial. No hiding in his office, or backing away from creating more controversy and making more enemies and infuriating the press and the entertainment industry and the organizations that claim to speak for women. He doesn’t back down–he does what is right.
 
For those who think that other issues are more important than the life issues–

I believe that WHEN we respect LIFE, we will see respect for living human beings who are in need, oppressed, ill, addicted, fugitives, homeless, etc. We will care for these people because we RESPECT LIFE.

But as long as abortion is legal in this country, we will NOT see respect for those in need, oppressed, ill, addicted, fugitives, homeless, etc. We will NOT provide care for these people because we do NOT RESPECT LIFE.

Instead, we will continue to see them as non-humans who could have been eliminated before they were ever born.

And I predict that eventually, we will begin to see “mercy-killings” of those who don’t seem to be able to improve their lot in life.

The Life Issues, especially abortion, are the basis for ALL charitable feelings and actions. If we don’t get these issues straight, we will have a warped perspective on “what” (after all, it’s not a human being, so why call it a “who”) should be kept alive.

We cannot fix all the other issues (poverty, health care, immigration, etc.) UNTIL we fix the life issues, especially eliminate abortion. Fixing these other issues is expensive, labor-intensive, frustrating, exhausting, and discouraging, and inevitably, people involved in the “fixing” will think, “It would have been better had this person that I am trying and failing to help had never been born.”

E.g., the cost of helping a minority family who has faced a lifetime of discrimination and poverty is sky-high. Yes, it must be done–but as the effort to help this family become assimilated and comfortable and prosperous in the U.S. takes up many hundreds of thousands of dollars (e.g., scholarships for good schools and colleges, intervention of doctors and psychologists for physical and mental health issues that have been ignored over the decades, cost of job training, court costs when discrimination occurs, etc.)–people will begin to think, “It would have been better if…oh, no, I’m glad they’re here…but…it would have been better if…”

Frankly, I do not trust people who are pro-choice. If they can kill an innocent unborn human being who has the potential of becoming a great inventor, doctor, preacher, teacher, parent, athlete, etc.–then what’s to stop them from killing me?
 
Last edited:
Sentence?
Elf, there are so many issues in this world, every bit as important. I wish all Catholics could broaden the scope of their concern. We can walk and chew gum at the same time.
It is good to be against abortion, but not at the expense of the things that people like Donald Trump do in other areas.
If not for the late Senator John McCain, Obamacare would have been abolished without anything to replace it. The Republicans wanted to take away health care from those who have pre-existing conditions.
Paul Ryan took money away from Medicare and Medicaid. He would have loved to have destroyed Social Security.
Tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires to be paid for by gutting all programs that help the poor, the ill, and senior citizens. That is not right.
What about the never ending wars that the GOP gets us into. Iraq twice, Syria, now perhaps Iran?
There are so many good reasons not to vote to re-elect Donald Trump.
As much as I dislike abortion, I cannot vote for Trump or what he stand for. I do not believe he is a good person.
 
If anyone here has actually read scripture, God has used some pretty bad people to do his will. Pharaoh, King of Babylon, Judas, Peter, many Saints who you wouldn’t want to live next door to. Trump is a narcissist and an oligarch who is doing all the right things for the pro-life movement. Personally, I think he I doing it do make liberal neck veins pop. He is doing the right thing and he doesn’t care what anyone thinks about it. Thank you Mr. President for standing up for the un-born.
 
Peeps said:
I think we also have created a generation of younger people who have no concept of hard work. Many come from broken homes–income level doesn’t matter, because 50% of all couples divorce! This means that children are shuffled back and forth and parents are trying hard to be their “friends” rather than parents. Very few dads are willing to tell Junior that “this Saturday, you and I will be cleaning out the garage and getting the yard ready for spring. I’ll need you up and ready to work by 7:00 a.m. and plan to do a lot of heavy lifting and cleaning!”

Chances are good the child will report dear ol’ dad to Child Protective Services, and dad will be charged with slave labor and abuse!

So it’s no wonder that employees refuse to clean a bathroom.
Click to expand...
My employees tended to be younger (twenty-ish), but I had one WWII veteran, born ca. 1920, who balked on being asked to work as well. They all thought that for minimum wage (plus commission if you could earn it, and more often than not, it was minimal), they shouldn’t have to turn their hand when they weren’t waiting on customers, and we could sometimes go the better part of an hour with no one in the store. When I would be gone for a few days, I’d come back and find that they’d moved folding chairs in back of the counter so they could sit down and take it easy, instead of being up working, cleaning, fronting merchandise, straightening up the shelves, and so on, which was the expectation from corporate.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top