Presidential Debate #2

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Prodigal_Son1 said:
Total submission to Him, and His will.
{snip} Peace to you.
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Our priest says faith is a verb. Faith is putting our beliefs into practice. Submission to His will is an act FOR His will.

[BIBLEDRB]jas 2:14-20[/BIBLEDRB]
 
TexCatholic4JMJ said:
Did all of the apostles chosen by Jesus remain faithful to him? No, we had Judas who
betrayed him for 30pieces of silver and Peter who in the end was faithful, but denied him
3 times.
We have been given a free will and the Church in the US is barred from endorsing a
candidate and some bishops follow that beyond the letter of the law.

Take it upon yourself to research our Church’s teachings and then make a decision.
It’ll feel good. I hope you make the one that makes the most sense!!!
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The Church is barred? The Pope is not a citizen of this country and could speak to us all. Why doesn’t he plainly say that not voting for a specific candidate is sin, especially if it’s as so many say in that it endangers souls to damnation?

People are using issues important to the Church to sway people to support a single party, yet making excuses of why the Church is not obligated to lead us by example.
 
qui_est_ce said:
We need to stand up and defend our faith, even if we get martyred for it. I will not vote for a president who wants Catholic institutions to go against their moral values. I will not vote for a president who believes in unfettered abortion. I will not vote for a president who is bankrupting our country.

I will vote for someone I believe will protect our right to practice our religion in public.

My liberal family members are totally ridiculing me and calling me immoral for voting RR. I know all liberals don’t do this. But I am being demonized in the family.😦
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I"m sorry to hear that. Some of that is going on, yes. My family is split down the middle on this election. Luckily we’ve managed to keep it civil. I’m the old codgerette of the bunch and I will not put up with scapegoating either way. :hey_bud:
 
qui_est_ce said:
Our priest says faith is a verb. Faith is putting our beliefs into practice. Submission to His will is an act FOR His will.

[BIBLEDRB]jas 2:14-20[/BIBLEDRB]
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There are many acts to show one’s faith. I don’t believe voting to be one of them. This discussion has helped me in making a decision not to vote again. I will live under whoever the Lord places in power.
 
iloveangels said:
I"m sorry to hear that. Some of that is going on, yes. My family is split down the middle on this election. Luckily we’ve managed to keep it civil. I’m the old codgerette of the bunch and I will not put up with scapegoating either way. :hey_bud:
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People can be pretty mean-spirited. 😦
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
The Church is barred? The Pope is not a citizen of this country and could speak to us all. Why doesn’t he plainly say that not voting for a specific candidate is sin, especially if it’s as so many say in that it endangers souls to damnation?

People are using issues important to the Church to sway people to support a single party, yet making excuses of why the Church is not obligated to lead us by example.
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That is not what I said or meant and you do know it.
The only thing we can control is what we do and those decisions are what our Lord will
judge us on. I prefer to do what I can and not leave it to fatalism.
 
qui_est_ce said:
You need to help vote Obama out.

His policies are hurting the poor, the Church, and ultimately our country.
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I am not voting. I was torn between not voting, writing in a name, and even considered Romney. I don’t believe Romney will help the poor, or our country. I’ve already told you I don’t fear for the Church. That’s in His hands.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
The Church is barred? The Pope is not a citizen of this country and could speak to us all. Why doesn’t he plainly say that not voting for a specific candidate is sin, especially if it’s as so many say in that it endangers souls to damnation?

People are using issues important to the Church to sway people to support a single party, yet making excuses of why the Church is not obligated to lead us by example.
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Have you ever heard of the concept of subsidiarity? It’s in the CCC:

"883 Socialization also presents dangers. Excessive intervention by the state can threaten personal freedom and initiative. The teaching of the Church has elaborated the principle of subsidiarity, according to which "a community of a higher order should not interfere in the internal life of a community of a lower order, depriving the latter of its functions, but rather should support it in case of need and help to co- ordinate its activity with the activities of the rest of society, always with a view to the common good."7
…
1885 The principle of subsidiarity is opposed to all forms of collectivism. It sets limits for state intervention. It aims at harmonizing the relationships between individuals and societies. It tends toward the establishment of true international order.

There’s a searchable copy of the CCC at scborromeo.org/ccc.htm
And you can also find a copy at www.vatican.va of course.
 
Catechism of the Catholic Church:

"2240 Submission to authority and co-responsibility for the common good make it morally obligatory to pay taxes, to exercise the right to vote, and to defend one’s country:
Code: 
Pay to all of them their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, revenue to whom revenue is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due. 

[Christians] reside in their own nations, but as resident aliens. They participate in all things as citizens and endure all things as foreigners. . . . They obey the established laws and their way of life surpasses the laws. . . . So noble is the position to which God has assigned them that they are not allowed to desert it.
The Apostle exhorts us to offer prayers and thanksgiving for kings and all who exercise authority, “that we may lead a quiet and peaceable life, godly and respectful in every way.” "

scborromeo.org/ccc/para/2240.htm

This is not at all new. This has always been the teaching of the Church.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
I am not voting. I was torn between not voting, writing in a name, and even considered Romney. I don’t believe Romney will help the poor, or our country. I’ve already told you I don’t fear for the Church. That’s in His hands.
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Are you in a swing state? If you are can you tell me where that is? Thanks.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
I am not voting. I was torn between not voting, writing in a name, and even considered Romney. I don’t believe Romney will help the poor, or our country. I’ve already told you I don’t fear for the Church. That’s in His hands.
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I don’t fear for the Church either, but you can’t lie down and do nothing. The Church on earth is the Church Militant.
 
Prodigal_Son1 said:
I am not voting. I was torn between not voting, writing in a name, and even considered Romney. I don’t believe Romney will help the poor, or our country. I’ve already told you I don’t fear for the Church. That’s in His hands.
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When people spit at a church building are we to stand by and let them and say, “God’s will will prevail.”?
 
qui_est_ce said:
I don’t fear for the Church either, but you can’t lie down and do nothing. The Church on earth is the Church Militant.
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Placing all my faith in Him is not doing nothing, and it certainly doesn’t seem wrong.

That’s what my conscience is leading me to do. All Catholics should follow their consciences.
 
qui_est_ce said:
When people spit at a church building are we to stand by and let them and say, “God’s will will prevail.”?
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Mat 5:42 Give to him that asketh of thee, and from him that would borrow of thee turn not away.
Mat 5:43 You have heard that it hath been said, Thou shalt love thy neighbour, and hate thy enemy.
Mat 5:44 But I say to you, Love your enemies: do good to them that hate you: and pray for them that persecute and calumniate you:
Mat 5:45 That you may be the children of your Father who is in heaven, who maketh his sun to rise upon the good, and bad, and raineth upon the just and the unjust.
Mat 5:46 For if you love them that love you, what reward shall you have? do not even the publicans this?
Mat 5:47 And if you salute your brethren only, what do you more? do not also the heathens this?
Mat 5:48 Be you therefore perfect, as also your heavenly Father is perfect.
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TexCatholic4JMJ said:
Prodigal son, In case you missed it. If you can answer, I’d appreciate it.
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It’s not necessary. It’s the same as certain points I’ve raised not receiving a direct response.

Do as your faith formed conscience leads you to do.
 
qui_est_ce said:
They stood up for the Church, that is why they were martyred.
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We’re not discussing standing up for our Church. Read through the thread, there are many issues that partisan lines are being drawn on. I’m not buying into the ‘lesser of two evils.’

Thanks for the discussion, and for remaining charitable qui est ce. I sincerely appreciated that and it caused me to think more.

God Bless
 
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