Presidential Election Poll 10-2-2012

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ishii;9864323:
I was not accusing anyone in particular. Sorry if you felt I was directing my comment specifically to you.:o
The general tone of the posts were becoming quite confrontational.
Additionally, my conscience also tells me I must vote for Romney, as the lesser of the evils.
Duly noted, katcecelia.
 
Irishgal, how did Romney “make millions off of aborted babies” ? There is no “perfectly pro-life candidate” to support. True believers will always find something to condemn about a candidate who is pro-life. Bottom line: Obama voted to support partial birth abortion. Romney will nominate justices who will vote to overturn Roe V Wade. Keep that in mind.

Ishii
She is reffering to Stericyle which was acused by MotherJones of Romney having a part in investing in. That was debunked by the documents that showed Romney had left Bain Capital prior
 
If you’re against abortion then you cannot vote for Romney or Obama. IF that is the ONLY issue you are talking about. I was told by the Bishop if neither candidate is truly pro-life vote for the one who is the lesser evil. Very sad but true. Romney made millions off of aborted babies and Obama doesn’t do anything to stop abortion, but neither did Bush, Regan, or anyone else in office.

Sad world we live in. So I chose my candidate but none are truly the pro-life people they claim.
That lie has already been debunked see Abyssinia’s post.

As for Romney being anti-Life

Are you accusing CatholicVote.org, the National Right to Life Committe, The Missouri Right to Life Federal Political Action Committee, Minnesota Citizens Concerned for Life (MCCL) Federal PAC, Oregon Right to Life, and the Susan B. Anthony List of being hypocrites? :confused:
 
As for Romney being anti-Life
Are you accusing CatholicVote.org, the National Right to Life Committe, The Missouri Right to Life Federal Political Action Committee, Minnesota Citizens Concerned for Life (MCCL) Federal PAC, Oregon Right to Life, and the Susan B. Anthony List of being hypocrites? :confused:
“Debunked”?, “scrubbed” might be a better term.

I don’t know about Irish,
I’ll step up and say “if it quacks like a duck”…

Romney refused to sign the Pro-Life Pledge. Another example of talking the talk, but refusing to walk the walk.

dailycaller.com/2011/06/18/romney-draws-fire-for-not-signing-pro-life-pledge/
Former Massachusetts Gov. Mitt Romney drew criticism Saturday for being one of only three Republican presidential candidates to have refused to sign the Susan B. Anthony List’s Pro-Life Leadership Presidential Pledge.
And now they endorse him?
As much as it would be wonderful to believe that all Pro-Life organizations are idealistic, unfortunately they are run by humans, with human weaknesses for money.

slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/the_conversion/2012/02/mitt_romney_s_abortion_record_flip_flop_or_conversion_.7.html
In December 2006, one month before he left office, Romney issued the two most important documents of his record-cleansing project. They were checks from a Romney-controlled foundation to Massachusetts Citizens for Life and the Massachusetts Family Institute, for a combined $25,000. After that, the two groups, which had previously criticized Romney, began to say nice things
It appears that just $25,00.00 will essentially buy a pro-abortion politician endorsements from pro-life groups.
Sad but true.
😦
 
“Debunked”?, “scrubbed” might be a better term.

I don’t know about Irish,
I’ll step up and say “if it quacks like a duck”…

Romney refused to sign the Pro-Life Pledge. Another example of talking the talk, but refusing to walk the walk.

dailycaller.com/2011/06/18/romney-draws-fire-for-not-signing-pro-life-pledge/

And now they endorse him?
As much as it would be wonderful to believe that all Pro-Life organizations are idealistic, unfortunately they are run by humans, with human weaknesses for money.

slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/the_conversion/2012/02/mitt_romney_s_abortion_record_flip_flop_or_conversion_.7.html

It appears that just $25,00.00 will essentially buy a pro-abortion politician endorsements from pro-life groups.
Sad but true.
😦
Wow did not know Romney ahd given that money to pro life groups, awesome

Romney did not sign the pledge I think because it would stop him from naming Rudy Giuliani who is pro abortion, as attorney general for example, who would have no say in abortion issues, and that is something Romney did not feel he could agree too

It is not right to claim a pro life organisation could be bought by a donation as if they were a nefarious group

If you think he did for political purposes explain why Colorado Citizens for Life, Susan B Anthony trust, Pennsylvania Pro-Life Federation Political Action Committee, Right to Life of Michigan Political Action Committee, Ohio Right to Life Society Political Action Committee, Wisconsin Right to Life, Arkansas Right to Life, Rhode Island State Right to Life Committee, Nevada Right to Life, West Virginians for Life PAC and Missouri Right to Life Federal Political Action Committee , endorsed Romney? Do you think Romney donated to all these pro life organsiations
 
Wow did not know Romney ahd given that money to pro life groups, awesome

It is not right to claim a pro life organisation could be bought by a donation as if they were a nefarious group

If you think he did for political purposes explain why Colorado Citizens for Life, Susan B Anthony trust, Pennsylvania Pro-Life Federation Political Action Committee, Right to Life of Michigan Political Action Committee, Ohio Right to Life Society Political Action Committee, Wisconsin Right to Life, Arkansas Right to Life, Rhode Island State Right to Life Committee, Nevada Right to Life, West Virginians for Life PAC and Missouri Right to Life Federal Political Action Committee , endorsed Romney? Do you think Romney donated to all these pro life organsiations
I think Vangaurdian has taken it upon himself to be the supreme authority on all pro-Life matters and condemns every and all major pro-Life groups for endorsing Romney. Apparently Vangaurdian is more concerned with trashing Romney than Obama’s pro-Abortion record and it’s apparent with his obviously anti-Romney (but silent on Obama :hmmm:) signature. :rolleyes:
 
I think Vangaurdian has taken it upon himself to be the supreme authority on all pro-Life matters and condemns every and all major pro-Life groups for endorsing Romney. Apparently Vangaurdian is more concerned with trashing Romney than Obama’s pro-Abortion record and it’s apparent with his obviously anti-Romney (but silent on Obama :hmmm:) signature. :rolleyes:
Interesting, personal attack.

Very charitable of you.
Shall I register a complaint?

Not my style. I enjoy free speech unlike some who cannot handle reasonable presentation of facts.
🙂

Side note,
It is refreshing to know that presentation of facts is a concern for those who are active in suppression of knowledge to those who may be lurking.
👍
 
Interesting, personal attack.

Very charitable of you.
Shall I register a complaint?

Not my style. I enjoy free speech unlike some who cannot handle reasonable presentation of facts.
🙂

Side note,
It is refreshing to know that presentation of facts is a concern for those who are active in suppression of knowledge to those who may be lurking.
👍
Not a personal attack but an observation based on on:
  • The fact you accused major pro-Life groups of being hypocrites;
  • The statement you made accusing pro-Life groups of being corrupt, greedy and bribed
  • Your signature states:
Romney is not Pro-Life.
He claimed to have a “Pro-Life” conversion in 2004.
In 2006 he signed tax-payer funded abortion into law.
He still brags about Romney-Care to this day.
and observing from your posts on this thread, you seem to be silent on Obama’s pro-Abortion record and instead want to be focused on Romney’s sketchy “supposed pro-Life”

So if you seem to take that as a personal attack, then I apologize. However you have made very serious accusations towards pro-Life groups with no credible evidence, so if anyone is in error of uncharitableness…I’m not the only one on this thread.
 
“Debunked”?, “scrubbed” might be a better term.

I don’t know about Irish,
I’ll step up and say “if it quacks like a duck”…

Romney refused to sign the Pro-Life Pledge. Another example of talking the talk, but refusing to walk the walk.

dailycaller.com/2011/06/18/romney-draws-fire-for-not-signing-pro-life-pledge/

And now they endorse him?
As much as it would be wonderful to believe that all Pro-Life organizations are idealistic, unfortunately they are run by humans, with human weaknesses for money.

slate.com/articles/news_and_politics/the_conversion/2012/02/mitt_romney_s_abortion_record_flip_flop_or_conversion_.7.html

It appears that just $25,00.00 will essentially buy a pro-abortion politician endorsements from pro-life groups.
Sad but true.
😦
The pro-life movement as a whole needs to reconsider its options. I’ve seen pro-life legislation and amendments get tossed out South Dakota and Mississippi.

Frankly, that is unacceptable, especially when neither pro-choice nor pro-life views seem to hold a majority (over 50%) consistently and those two are very conservative states.

If the pro-life movement is really interested in saving lives, maybe even more so than gaining perceived or would-be perfect graces and points for the after-life, we need to start smaller and go from there.

It’s not doing us any good to waste resources on promoting morally-perfect policies that we know will fail the ballot.

Justice Scalia even hinted recently there’s a good chance the Supreme Court could toss Roe V Wade because myself and others have been saying, all it does it make it illegal for the states to ban abortion.

Return to state’s rights and you start to save lives.

So what’s it gonna be?
 
Not a personal attack but an observation based on on:
  • The fact you accused major pro-Life groups of being hypocrites;
  • The statement you made accusing pro-Life groups of being corrupt, greedy and bribed
  • Your signature states:
and observing from your posts on this thread, you seem to be silent on Obama’s pro-Abortion record and instead want to be focused on Romney’s sketchy “supposed pro-Life”

So if you seem to take that as a personal attack, then I apologize. However you have made very serious accusations towards pro-Life groups with no credible evidence, so if anyone is in error of uncharitableness…I’m not the only one on this thread.
Oh I see.
I accept the apology. Please understand that when using the words “you” or “yours”, it will be interpreted as personal. It is just how the English language works. Yes, when engaging in charitable discussion, it is certainly an error to do so. All people are guilty of such errors, and it is OK.

At the very least there is an acknowledgment that Romney is not Pro-Life (after all his credentials are “sketchy”).

Moving on,
I’ve stated numerous times that Obama is certainly pro abortion. I’m sure there are not any who would argue that fact. The problem is that there seem to be some who have been convinced that Romney is somehow Pro-Life, even though all his actions on the issue have been quite the opposite… that is unless you count buying Pro-Life endorsements.

Unfortunately we have to recognize that those who operate Pro-Life organizations are just as human as anyone else. Facts presented show that in Romney’s past he has essentially bought-off any organization he needs approval of, including Pro-Life organizations. Are such organizations at fault? To some degree, yes. However I’m sure they put the extra revenue to good use.

To be clear:
Romney’s only Pro-Life ACTIONS has been to buy-off Pro-Life organizations for political endorsements. His pro-abortion ACTIONS has been to sign tax payer funded abortion into law.
There is a huge difference between ACTIONS and endorsements.

• ACTIONS results in millions of innocents butchered by planned parenthood.
• Endorsements just dupe unsuspecting voters.

I judge people by their actions, not their words. That’s just the way I am.

Also it seems there is an effort to play any criticism of Romney as somehow pro-obama, which is a rather limited way of thinking. They are both the same in their servitude of goldman sachs/planned parenthood.
Sadly this election is not about the picking the lesser “of two evils”, both are equally evil.

Thankfully we are not limited by a choice of “greater of two evils” in this country… that is unless some wish to be restrained to such by stating “third party cannot win”. Those who would make such statements reveal their own incapability to expand their minds beyond what has been conditioned by those who want continue a two-party farce.

Get it?
 
The pro-life movement as a whole needs to reconsider its options. I’ve seen pro-life legislation and amendments get tossed out South Dakota and Mississippi.



Return to state’s rights and you start to save lives.

So what’s it gonna be?
Nail on the head.

This whole “stack the supreme court” game has gone on long enough. The Supreme court has never been Pro-Life and never will be. THEY NEVER HAD JURISDICTION OVER THE MATTER!
 
She is reffering to Stericyle which was acused by MotherJones of Romney having a part in investing in. That was debunked by the documents that showed Romney had left Bain Capital prior
Oh, so she is perpetuating a false claim? Isn’t making false claims engaging in calumny?

Ishii
 
Nail on the head.

This whole “stack the supreme court” game has gone on long enough. The Supreme court has never been Pro-Life and never will be. THEY NEVER HAD JURISDICTION OVER THE MATTER!
Let me help you out here, Vanguardian: “stacking the supreme court” refers to an attempt to increase the number of justices so that a president can nominate the extra judges and influence the ideological makeup of the court. The most famous (and recent) example of this is FDR’s attempt to add justices sympathetic to the New Deal in the late 1930’s. The more recent movement to nominate constructionist judges to bring about a successful overturn of Roe V Wade is not “stacking the supreme court”, it is merely replacing a retiring judge with one who reflects the president’s judicial philosophy. I hope that helps you understand.

Let me help you further: Romney wasn’t a part of Bain Capital when the investment in Stericycle took place.

Its clear to me that some people will go to any length to try and defame a decent man such as Mitt Romney. The attacks on him are malicious and false and anyone engaging in such attacks should be ashamed of themselves.

Ishii
 
Let me help you out here, Vanguardian: “stacking the supreme court” refers to an attempt to increase the number of justices so that a president can nominate the extra judges and influence the ideological makeup of the court. The most famous (and recent) example of this is FDR’s attempt to add justices sympathetic to the New Deal in the late 1930’s. The more recent movement to nominate constructionist judges to bring about a successful overturn of Roe V Wade is not “stacking the supreme court”, it is merely replacing a retiring judge with one who reflects the president’s judicial philosophy. I hope that helps you understand.

Let me help you further: Romney wasn’t a part of Bain Capital when the investment in Stericycle took place.

Its clear to me that some people will go to any length to try and defame a decent man such as Mitt Romney. The attacks on him are malicious and false and anyone engaging in such attacks should be ashamed of themselves.

Ishii
What do you make of this?
Laurence Vance:
I have seen it reported in several places that Planned Parenthood, one of the world’s leading abortion providers, received government grants and contracts of $350 million for fiscal year 2007-2008 and $337 million for fiscal year 2006-2007. I verified this information for myself on the Planned Parenthood website. I also discovered that Planned Parenthood’s fiscal year ends on June 30. This means that Bush the Republican was the president during this time. But after doing a little digging, I also found out that Planned Parenthood received government grants and contracts of $305 million (34%) during fiscal year 2005-2006. During this time we not only had Bush the Republican president but also a Republican majority in Congress. Yet, Planned Parenthood was still funded. And we are supposed to take Republicans seriously when they complain that Obama isn’t likely to appoint an anti-abortion judge to the Supreme Court? Why wasn’t the Republican Party that concerned about abortion when clinics affiliated with Planned Parenthood performed 264,943 abortions in 2005?
lewrockwell.com/vance/vance298.html
 
Also it seems there is an effort to play any criticism of Romney as somehow pro-obama, which is a rather limited way of thinking.
No, on the contrary Republicans and Conservatives who are for Romney have a duty to ensure he gets the job done or replace him during the 2016 Primaries.
They are both the same in their servitude of goldman sachs/planned parenthood.
Sadly this election is not about the picking the lesser “of two evils”, both are equally evil.
Except Romney wants to repeal Title X, if Romney was so pro-choice, why would he take such a hard stance in regards to Federal funding of Planned Parenthood? Clearly a candidate who is pro-PP wouldn’t make such bold and clear statements. A pro-choice in disguise Republican would use vague language as “making sure Federal funding does not go to abortion” and say nothing about repealing all Federal aid to Planned Parenthood.
Thankfully we are not limited by a choice of “greater of two evils” in this country… that is unless some wish to be restrained to such by stating “third party cannot win”.
Well that some is practically 90% of the American voting populace…so if you think you can convince 41% to change their vote within 29 days to vote for one of the 3rd-parties, then good luck with that.
Those who would make such statements reveal their own incapability to expand their minds beyond what has been conditioned by those who want continue a two-party farce.
It’s not that we are “conditioned” or our minds are “small” but instead we are pragmatic and rational and know that ideally it would be great that the 3rd parties could get a shot, but the problem with the 3rd parties (ie Constitutional and Libertarian) is that they reach for unrealistic and unattainable goals. They expect that working one state or going out via alternative media such as Alex Jones show is going to get them the Presidency. That’s why I have little respect for the Libertarian and Constitutional parties. While I agree with the Constitutional Party on a lot of issues. I lose respect when they don’t take themselves seriously.

Do they want to continue being an unknown 3rd party garnering only a third of 10% of the vote? Or do they want to be a viable party in America? In my view they currently only care about being the former. If they cared about the latter, then they would work small by winning Congressional seats or State legislative or Governorships areas they do have a chance of winning and get their message out. Nobody is going to know them unless they are in the news and a 3rd party winning a Governorship or Congressional seat will definitely be news. From there they can actually get their message out. Take cue from the UKIP in the UK. They only focused on the EU parliament elections (something insignificant to UK politics, but a seat that does represent the UK and gives the party a platform to speak from) over the years they were seen as a joke, a breakoff of the fascist BNP…now they have risen to be the 3rd most popular party in the polls. If the Constitutional Party actually tried to win elections rather than push the old tired mantra of “oh the two-party system doesn’t work vote for us, we’re the alternative” well it hasn’t worked for 20 years but they keep plugging away at it.

That’s why I and most Americans don’t take 3rd parties seriously, because they don’t take themselves seriously.
 
So you’re saying that since Bush and the GOP failed to ban funding of PP in 2007 that Romney and the GOP will also fail? I normally regard information coming from Republican hating sites like Lew Rockwell as suspect. Its possible that they (the GOP) didn’t have the votes to do it - there were unfortunately some GOP senators who would have voted to keep the PP funding. That said, I have never alleged that the GOP was 100% pro-life at all times did I? I have been critical in the past of the GOP for not being effectively pro-life enough. But GOP failures in 2007 is hardly a reason to not support GOP pro-life efforts in 2012, is it? Doing so doesn’t sound like a good way to encourage pro-life efforts in the GOP to me, but what do i know.

What do you make of this?

lifenews.com/2011/04/15/planned-parenthood-votes-shows-pro-life-democrats-extinct/

All but five GOP senators voted to ban funding for PP in April 2011. All of the Democrat senators voted to keep the funding.

What do you make of this?

lifenews.com/2011/02/18/house-overwhelmingly-votes-to-scrap-plannned-parenthood-funding/

That was the majority GOP House of Reps that voted to scrap PP funding. Too bad the Democrat senate blocked it.

lifenews.com/2012/04/09/iowa-pro-life-lawmakers-look-to-de-fund-planned-parenthood/

Lots of Republican led pro-life efforts at the state level too.

Kind of debunks the “GOP isn’t pro-life” narrative you’re promoting, doesn’t it?

Ishii
 
So you’re saying that since Bush and the GOP failed to ban funding of PP in 2007 that Romney and the GOP will also fail? I normally regard information coming from Republican hating sites like Lew Rockwell as suspect. Its possible that they (the GOP) didn’t have the votes to do it - there were unfortunately some GOP senators who would have voted to keep the PP funding. That said, I have never alleged that the GOP was 100% pro-life at all times did I? I have been critical in the past of the GOP for not being effectively pro-life enough. But GOP failures in 2007 is hardly a reason to not support GOP pro-life efforts in 2012, is it? Doing so doesn’t sound like a good way to encourage pro-life efforts in the GOP to me, but what do i know.

What do you make of this?

lifenews.com/2011/04/15/planned-parenthood-votes-shows-pro-life-democrats-extinct/

All but five GOP senators voted to ban funding for PP in April 2011. All of the Democrat senators voted to keep the funding.

What do you make of this?

lifenews.com/2011/02/18/house-overwhelmingly-votes-to-scrap-plannned-parenthood-funding/

That was the majority GOP House of Reps that voted to scrap PP funding. Too bad the Democrat senate blocked it.

lifenews.com/2012/04/09/iowa-pro-life-lawmakers-look-to-de-fund-planned-parenthood/

Lots of Republican led pro-life efforts at the state level too.

Kind of debunks the “GOP isn’t pro-life” narrative you’re promoting, doesn’t it?

Ishii
They’re pro-life when it’s convenient for them, but do nothing about it when they have the majority in Congress. They had it from 1994-2007. They also had the presidency from 2000-2008. What did they do with that?

I don’t doubt that it CAN happen, I just trust politicians about as much as I would a stranger walking down the street with my car keys.
 
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