Presidential Election Poll 10-2-2012

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poor. While neither party directly talks to the poor the Democratic party is at least courageous enough to put forward social programs that seek to level the field and provide opportunities for lower and middle class to advance while regulating the greed and fraud of the super wealthy. .
The Democrats want to help the poor of this generation by impoverishing our children. This is hardly charity. If they wanted to help the poor, with real help that addressed needs without encouraging dependence, and if they would raise taxes proportionally so we would pay as we go, I would actually support such a measure. As it is, I can not steal from my own children like the Democrats are doing. Oh, and like Republicans do for military spending.
 
The Democrats want to help the poor of this generation by impoverishing our children. This is hardly charity. If they wanted to help the poor, with real help that addressed needs without encouraging dependence, and if they would raise taxes proportionally so we would pay as we go, I would actually support such a measure. As it is, I can not steal from my own children like the Democrats are doing. Oh, and like Republicans do for military spending.
The Democrats want certain populations beholden to them, therefore steadily reliable in every election. That’s what they really want. It’s a welfare for votes scheme. It doesn’t help anyone but the Democrat party, and if truth be told, they know that at the higher levels of the party, and it’s why they do it. Most of them at that level don’t care about the poor anymore than anyone else.
 
Where does St Paul mention “caring for the poor” as a Biblical role of government?
The words of Paul in the 13th chapter of Romans are perhaps the most extensive teaching in the New Testament about the role and purposes of government. Paul says those purposes are twofold: to restrain evil by punishing evildoers and to serve peace and orderly conduct by rewarding good behavior. Civil authority is designed to be “God’s servant for your good” (13:4). Today we might say “the common good” is to be the focus and goal of government.
So the purpose of government, according to Paul, is to protect and promote. Protect from the evil and promote the good, and we are even instructed to pay taxes for those purposes. So to disparage government per se — to see government as the central problem in society — is simply not a biblical position.
 
The Data and Demographics That Detail Why Romney Will Defeat Obama in Ohio

Obama only at 44% in auto-bailout Michigan?

Ohio: The (Electoral) Heart of It All

Oh My: Obama Camp Denies Writing Off Florida, North Carolina, Virginia, and Colorado

Obama +1 in Ohio (post-debate) — Rasmussen
The first post-debate poll comes to us from Rasmussen Reports. Ohio remains a dog fight with President Obama clinging to a 1-point lead, 49 to 48:
The second presidential debate doesn’t appear to have made a difference in Rasmussen Reports’ first post-debate look at the race in Ohio. It’s still a toss-up. The latest telephone survey of Likely Ohio Voters, taken last night, shows President Obama with 49% support to Mitt Romney’s 48%. One percent (1%) prefers another candidate, and two percent (2%) are still undecided. The survey of 750 Likely Voters in Ohio was conducted on October 17, 2012 by Rasmussen Reports. The margin of sampling error is +/- 4 percentage points.
Iowa Voter Registration Update

Romney takes lead in real clear politics average, and I think their average is made of many oversampled democrat polls

http://www.therightscoop.com/wp-content/uploads/2012/10/romney206_obama201_electoralmap.jpg
 
We should be thankful that some catholics have chosen to reject the teachings of the Church???
Who said that either view rejects the churches teachings? The third eye, or mind of Christ, is usually beyond any of our narrow understandings. Look at the parables…they teach one thing early in life and something different (often opposite) later in life.
 
Who said that either view rejects the churches teachings? The third eye, or mind of Christ, is usually beyond any of our narrow understandings. Look at the parables…they teach one thing early in life and something different (often opposite) later in life.
Christ is pro-abortion? Pro gay so called marriage? Wants His Church to be forced to pay for abortions?
 
The words of Paul in the 13th chapter of Romans are perhaps the most extensive teaching in the New Testament about the role and purposes of government. Paul says those purposes are twofold: to restrain evil by punishing evildoers and to serve peace and orderly conduct by rewarding good behavior. Civil authority is designed to be “God’s servant for your good” (13:4). Today we might say “the common good” is to be the focus and goal of government.
So the purpose of government, according to Paul, is to protect and promote. Protect from the evil and promote the good, and we are even instructed to pay taxes for those purposes. So to disparage government per se — to see government as the central problem in society — is simply not a biblical position.
Fail. St Paul said nothing about government’s role is to take care of the poor.

Here are the verses from Roman’s 13:

1Let every person be subordinate to the higher authorities, for there is no authority except from God, and those that exist have been established by God.a 2Therefore, whoever resists authority opposes what God has appointed, and those who oppose it will bring judgment upon themselves. 3For rulers are not a cause of fear to good conduct, but to evil.**(“http://www.usccb.org/bible/romans/13#53013003-b”) Do you wish to have no fear of authority? Then do what is good and you will receive approval from it, 4for it is a servant of God for your good. But if you do evil, be afraid, for it does not bear the sword without purpose; it is the servant of God to inflict wrath on the evildoer.c 5Therefore, it is necessary to be subject not only because of the wrath but also because of conscience.d 6This is why you also pay taxes, for the authorities are ministers of God, devoting themselves to this very thing. 7Pay to all their dues, taxes to whom taxes are due, toll to whom toll is due, respect to whom respect is due, honor to whom honor is due

There is no mention of social welfare programs.
 
The words of Paul in the 13th chapter of Romans are perhaps the most extensive teaching in the New Testament about the role and purposes of government. Paul says those purposes are twofold: to restrain evil by punishing evildoers and to serve peace and orderly conduct by rewarding good behavior. Civil authority is designed to be “God’s servant for your good” (13:4). Today we might say “the common good” is to be the focus and goal of government.
So the purpose of government, according to Paul, is to protect and promote. Protect from the evil and promote the good, and we are even instructed to pay taxes for those purposes. So to disparage government per se — to see government as the central problem in society — is simply not a biblical position.
It actually doesn’t say that. Here is the passage:

"*13 Let everyone be subject to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2 Consequently, whoever rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3 For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and you will be commended. 4 For the one in authority is God’s servant for your good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for rulers do not bear the sword for no reason. They are God’s servants, agents of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5 Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also as a matter of conscience.

6 This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God’s servants, who give their full time to governing. 7 Give to everyone what you owe them: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor."*

It says nothing about choosing a leader. It says nothing about voting which didn’t exist in those days. They got a king or a procurator from Rome. It says nothing about the poor.

It says that in matters of government, you obey the government under all normal circumstances. It says nothing about what happens when the government tries to make you do religious things against the teachings of Christ.

And in fact, Christ went to the Cross on the orders of the Roman procurate, because he was a pain in their side and they wanted to get rid of him. He obeyed them, but he didn’t agree with them. You don’t have to agree with them, and in a society like ours where you can vote leaders in and out, you have a say in who gets in, and who becomes the one to obey.

If Obama gets re-elected, I have no doubt but what Catholics will obey and dismantle the apostolates of the church. But that doesn’t have to happen in the first place here.
 
Who said that either view rejects the churches teachings? The third eye, or mind of Christ, is usually beyond any of our narrow understandings. Look at the parables…they teach one thing early in life and something different (often opposite) later in life.
If someone either directly or indirectly supports unrestricted abortion on demand they are rejecting the Teachings of the Church I don’t need to rely on your personal interpretation of Scripture the know the truth Christ entrusted the truth to the Cathoilc Church and they have consistently promoted it for over two thousand years
 
Fail. St Paul said nothing about government’s role is to take care of the poor.

Here are the verses from Roman’s 13:

(Deleted)

There is no mention of social welfare programs.
First, it’s stunning to me that a Catholic is arguing against caring for the poor, including by the Government…here’s more:

First, government is supposed to protect its people. That certainly means protecting its citizens’ safety and security. Crime and violence will always be real in this world, and that’s why we have the police, who are meant to keep our streets, neighborhoods, and homes safe.
Governments also need to protect their people judicially, and make sure our legal and court systems are procedurally just and fair. The biblical prophets regularly rail against corrupt court decisions and systems, in which the wealthy and powerful manipulate the legal processes for their own benefit and put the poor into greater debt or distress. The prophet Amos speaks directly to the courts (and government) when he says, “Hate evil, love good; maintain justice in the courts” (Amos 5:15 NIV).
But along with protecting, what should governments promote? The prophets hold kings, rulers, judges, and even employers accountable to the demands of justice and fairness, therefore promoting those values.
And the Scriptures say that governmental authority is to protect the poor in particular. The biblical prophets are consistent and adamant in their condemnation of injustice to the poor, and frequently follow their statements by requiring the king (the government) to act justly. That prophetic expectation did not apply only to the kings of Israel but was also extended to the kings of neighboring lands and peoples.
Jeremiah, speaking of King Josiah, said, “He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well.”
Psalm 72 begins with a prayer for kings or political leaders: “Give the king your justice, O God, and your righteousness to a king’s son. May he judge your people with righteousness, and your poor with justice. May the mountains yield prosperity for the people, and the hills, in righteousness. May he defend the cause of the poor of the people, give deliverance to the needy, and crush the oppressor.”
There is a powerful vision here for promoting the common good — a vision of “righteous” prosperity for all the people, with special attention to the poor and to “deliverance” for the most vulnerable and needy, and even a concern for the land.

The biblical understanding of justice clearly includes both procedural and distributive aspects. That the procedures must be fair is clear in the several texts that demand unbiased courts (Exodus 23:2-8; Leviticus 19:15; Deuteronomy 1:17; 10:17-19). That distributive justice (i.e., fair outcomes) is also a central part of justice is evident not just from the hundreds of texts about God’s concern for the poor … but also in the meaning of the key Hebrew words for justice (mishpat and tsedaqah).
Time and again the prophets use mishpat and tsedaqah to refer to fair economic outcomes. Immediately after denouncing Israel and Judah for the absence of justice, the prophet Isaiah condemns the way rich and powerful landowners have acquired all the land by pushing out small farmers (Isaiah 5:7-9). It is important to note that even though in this text the prophet does not say the powerful acted illegally, he nevertheless denounces the unfair outcome.

The political right’s continuing accusation against all who would hold governments accountable for justice is that we are really aiming for equal outcomes from public policy. But that simply is not true.
Indeed, the historical attempts by many Marxist governments to create equal outcomes have dramatically shown the great dangers of how the concentration of power in a few government hands has led to totalitarian results. The theological reason for that is the presence and power of sin, and the inability of such fallible human creatures to create social utopias on earth.
Yet the biblical prophets do hold their rulers, courts, and judges, and landowners and employers accountable to the values of fairness, justice, and even mercy. The theological reasons for that are, in fact, the same: the reality of evil and sin in the concentration of power — both political and economic — and the need to hold that power accountable to justice, especially in the protection of the poor. So fair outcomes, and not equal ones, are the goal of governments.
Governments should provide a check on powerful people, institutions, and interests in the society that, if left unchecked, might run over their fellow citizens, the economy, and certainly the poor.
If government is rendered unable to “punish the evil” and “reward the good” when it comes to the behavior of huge corporations and banks, for example, exactly who else is going to do that? And coming to a better moral balance in achieving fiscal responsibility, while protecting the poor, should be a bipartisan effort.
 
First, it’s stunning to me that a Catholic is arguing against caring for the poor, including by the Government…here’s more:

First, government is supposed to protect its people. That certainly means protecting its citizens’ safety and security. Crime and violence will always be real in this world, and that’s why we have the police, who are meant to keep our streets, neighborhoods, and homes safe.
Governments also need to protect their people judicially, and make sure our legal and court systems are procedurally just and fair. The biblical prophets regularly rail against corrupt court decisions and systems, in which the wealthy and powerful manipulate the legal processes for their own benefit and put the poor into greater debt or distress. The prophet Amos speaks directly to the courts (and government) when he says, “Hate evil, love good; maintain justice in the courts” (Amos 5:15 NIV).
But along with protecting, what should governments promote? The prophets hold kings, rulers, judges, and even employers accountable to the demands of justice and fairness, therefore promoting those values.
And the Scriptures say that governmental authority is to protect the poor in particular. The biblical prophets are consistent and adamant in their condemnation of injustice to the poor, and frequently follow their statements by requiring the king (the government) to act justly. That prophetic expectation did not apply only to the kings of Israel but was also extended to the kings of neighboring lands and peoples.
Jeremiah, speaking of King Josiah, said, “He defended the cause of the poor and needy, and so all went well.”
Psalm 72 begins with a prayer for kings or political leaders: “Give the king your justice, O God, and your righteousness to a king’s son. May he judge your people with righteousness, and your poor with justice. May the mountains yield prosperity for the people, and the hills, in righteousness. May he defend the cause of the poor of the people, give deliverance to the needy, and crush the oppressor.”
There is a powerful vision here for promoting the common good — a vision of “righteous” prosperity for all the people, with special attention to the poor and to “deliverance” for the most vulnerable and needy, and even a concern for the land.
What happened to the Israelite when their king started sinning and worshipping Baals?

Israel had a religious government. Is that what you want for the US?

Jesus fulfilled the OT and taught the people how to live. It wasn’t off the largesse of the taxpayers.
 
The words of Paul in the 13th chapter of Romans are perhaps the most extensive teaching in the New Testament about the role and purposes of government. Paul says those purposes are twofold: to restrain evil by punishing evildoers and to serve peace and orderly conduct by rewarding good behavior. Civil authority is designed to be “God’s servant for your good” (13:4). Today we might say “the common good” is to be the focus and goal of government.
So the purpose of government, according to Paul, is to protect and promote. Protect from the evil and promote the good, and we are even instructed to pay taxes for those purposes. So to disparage government per se — to see government as the central problem in society — is simply not a biblical position.
It is when government is promoting evil…as is the case with Obama. What else do you call promoting the destruction of life but evil?
 
Psalm 72 begins with a prayer for kings or political leaders: “Give the king your justice, O God, and your righteousness to a king’s son. May he judge your people with righteousness, and your poor with justice. May the mountains yield prosperity for the people, and the hills, in righteousness. May he defend the cause of the poor of the people, give deliverance to the needy, and crush the oppressor.”
Don’t you realize that the oppressor is the government?
 
Who said that either view rejects the churches teachings? The third eye, or mind of Christ, is usually beyond any of our narrow understandings. Look at the parables…they teach one thing early in life and something different (often opposite) later in life.
The view of the Democrat party is wildly different from Catholic teaching. The two are now irreconcilable.

This confrontation between the “peace & justice wing” of the Church and the Democrat party is the big shock for people who’ve bought the misconception that’s been pushed for years that they’re the same. They’re not the same thing. You’re either Catholic first or Democrat first. Yes, you obey the government and don’t go to jail, but you don’t have to agree with the government. In some cases, you shouldn’t agree with the government, particularly if the government is doing evil things.

This was the big shock of the HHS mandate for many people. They didn’t believe it. Some people still dont’ believe it. BUT it’s law. It’s on the books. If Obama is re-elected you’re going to see it play out in living color right in front of your eyes. It won’t matter what you think of it at that point, whether 🍿 or :eek:. It’s going to happen. Some people are going to suffer as a result.

You were co-opted. Face it and deal with it in real time.

And if Obama doesn’t get re-elected: WE are still eventually going to have a giant confrontation sooner or later between these two mindsets–the progressive “catholic” one and the Democrat one. It’s going to be a train wreck. If it doesn’t happen over the HHS mandate it’s going to happen over homosexuality or some other thing that’s out there. Just watch. It’s going to be grisly. Why is it going to happen? BEcause Catholic teaching does not equal Democrat party platform. That’s why. You can’t be 100% both. You have to decide. Which is it?

Incidentally, there have been other places and times when this applied to other governments and other parties. The identity of the party is less important than the general principle. IF the Catholic Church had wedded itself completely to the Republican party until most people saw no difference between them whatsoever, then you’d have problems with them. That has not ever been the case in the United States and it is not the case now. For a Catholic, you are Catholic first and whatever else later.
 
Hispanic voters lean heavily toward President Barack Obama in this year’s US presidential race, a new survey by the Pew Forum shows. Hispanic Catholics favor Obama by an overwhelming …

More…
 
First, it’s stunning to me that a Catholic is arguing against caring for the poor, including by the Government…
But nobody is. Nobody here said that.

You are the one who is touting Obama because you think (erroneously) that somehow he cares about the poor. You are trying to put words into God’s mouth making Him say that caring for the poor is a function of government. That’s not in the bible at all.

Now, the Church does say society, at its most proximate competent level has a duty to provide decently for those who cannot help themselves. That might be the federal level, it might be the state, the county, the town or the family. Never does the Church decree there is a moral imperative for the federal government to do any particular thing, and certainly not healthcare.

What others are saying here is that Obama stands for some very evil things; things the Catholic Church teaches are intrinsic evils that cannot be outweighed by other political considerations. Your version of morality impels you to accept those evils for the sake of what you (in opposition to the majority of Americans) thinks is a good thing of relatively minor consequence. I don’t particularly doubt that is what your morality is, but it is certainly not Catholic.

You are arguing that it is somehow wrong for Catholics to bring their religiouly-derived moral beliefs into public policy, while at the same time acknowledging that everyone else is entitled to bring their moral convictions, however derived, into that very same public policy. You have said you are willing to accept abortion on demand because others in society (five men on the Supreme Court, actually) say we must. And yet, you are unwilling to accept the teachings of the Church, the majority opinion of Americans and, indeed, that of the world at large. The U.S. has the most permissive abortion law on the planet, and almost none is as permissive. This really doesn’t work as a persuasive argument in favor of the like of Obama.

And Obama has done absolutely nothing for the truly poor in this country. In fact, he has hurt them in various ways. For two years he could have passed anything he wanted to pass. For the poor…nothing at all. Nothing.
 
Polls are flexible and ever-changing, but you have to like the trend in the popular vote and the electoral college.
 
First, it’s stunning to me that a Catholic is arguing against caring for the poor, including by the Government…here’s more:
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No need to read any further, since you just falsely stated that I am arguing against caring for the poor.
 
Think polls that oversample democrats are also part of calculating the average. Good news for Romney/Ryan
 
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