Pretty much had it with my wife

[TheRealJuliane]

ADD ought not be used as an excuse, and you’ll not find Ed Hallowell or anyone else in the field saying that it is. It is a neurological makeup that has both challenges and rewards, but it is not a debilitating disease. Rather, finding one has ADD gives a reason to find different stategies other than just willpower in order to meet one’s obligations and function in a world set up for different neurological makeups. No one should let a family member with ADD or ADHD claim otherwise.

Again, I’d suggest the book “Switch”. People have to want to make changes in order to make them, but there are ways to do it that are more or less likely to work.

In fact, in many cases, the “disorder” leads to innovation and success.

The founder of JetBlue Airlines, David Neeleman, credits his success to having ADHD and will not take stimulants “because then I’d be just like the rest of you.”



I hope some day, my son will have put himself into that category of success. I know he can do it.

 

[EasterJoy]

In fact, in many cases, the “disorder” leads to innovation and success.

The founder of JetBlue Airlines, David Neeleman, credits his success to having ADHD and will not take stimulants “because then I’d be just like the rest of you.”



I hope some day, my son will have put himself into that category of success. I know he can do it.

That is a common misconception about using medications as a way to manage ADD. That is not to say that medications are necessary to everyone operating in the world with this kind of a brain, but rather that there was probably never a drug that could make David Neeleman “just like the rest of you”. It’s just not going to happen, and anyone married to someone with ADD had better get used to that!

A loss in creativity is also not what many people with ADD who take the medications report; rather, the medications help them to make the most of their neurological make-up. There are authors with ADD who feel that in spite of their creative talents, they could never have turned a book out without the help of their medications. At any rate, whether or not to take the medications depends on the individual and the sorts of trade-offs that they personally experience when they take them. Some find they help; others don’t.

There are people with ADD who have come up with very good practical strategies that anyone who is “organizationally challenged” or who has a “crazy busy” life might find useful. In that sense, one doesn’t have to have the diagnosis to profit from those who have it, any more than one has to be an alcoholic to benefit from taking the Serenity Prayer to heart!

 

[StarFireKK]

This is a great point. If the spouse working outside the home “wasted” a whole day at work, or more precisely, by not going to work, he/she would not bring home his contribution to the household (pay) not just for the day, but perhaps for a lot longer, if he/she were fired. Were that the case, many would rightfully (and righteously) condemn the no-account spouse and sympathize with the spouse not working outside the home. What would it feel like to be a spouse not working outside the home tethered to such an irresponsible person? Pretty bad, right? That’s exactly what it feels like to be in the shoes of the OP.

I have a hard time buying the ADD excuse on a widespread basis. A lot of people who exhibit the behavior described by the OP are just selfish and lazy, and in so doing are hurtful to the people of whom they take advantage.

With all due respect, the OP’s wife is carrying his child. That’s a contribution she cannot clock out of, take a sick day from, go on a lunch break, leave at the office, or gossip around the water cooler. I’m sure she would love to leave the whole baby-making routine on the kitchen table so she could get a good night’s sleep.

So, I’m sorry, that is not what it is to be like in the OP’s shoes.

 

[EasterJoy]

With all due respect, the OP’s wife is carrying his child. That’s a contribution she cannot clock out of, take a sick day from, go on a lunch break, leave at the office, or gossip around the water cooler. I’m sure she would love to leave the whole baby-making routine on the kitchen table so she could get a good night’s sleep.

So, I’m sorry, that is not what it is to be like in the OP’s shoes.

This might be something that needs to be put on hold for the time being, but the overall issue of how much work is involved in the role of homemaking and how much of that work needs to be borne by the lone breadwinner of the couple predates her pregnancy. There may even be something she does do now, though (such as clean the cat’s litter box), that she needs to stop doing, even if it is a job she doesn’t mind and the OP hates.

 

[hurting]

This might be something that needs to be put on hold for the time being, but the overall issue of how much work is involved in the role of homemaking and how much of that work needs to be borne by the lone breadwinner of the couple predates her pregnancy. There may even be something she does do now, though (such as clean the cat’s litter box), that she needs to stop doing, even if it is a job she doesn’t mind and the OP hates.

I agree that tabling the workload share issue is a reasonable and well-advised strategy until after the pregnancy.

 

[hurting]

With all due respect, the OP’s wife is carrying his child. That’s a contribution she cannot clock out of, take a sick day from, go on a lunch break, leave at the office, or gossip around the water cooler. I’m sure she would love to leave the whole baby-making routine on the kitchen table so she could get a good night’s sleep.

So, I’m sorry, that is not what it is to be like in the OP’s shoes.

Please note from my earlier posts on the subject that I did acknowledge the extenuating circumstances of the pregnancy. The example I offered was more general in nature and intended to illustrate the point about the differential view many hold between accountabilty for income-earning work for the household and non-income-earning work for the household.

You imply that income-earning work is replete with many opportunities for goldbricking, etc. Yes, this it true to some extent, but the pressures in the workplace have never been greater to maintain and increase productivity.

 

[hurting]

This would be the case if his wife did not look after their children.This is her primary “job”.She may be loving and patient with him and their babies,may be a good listener and a joyful wife.We do not know.Surely he does.He fell in love with her for many reasons but not because she was tidy.These reasons have to be rescued,not only the dirt around during a hard time.

Looking after the children includes maintaining the household and setting a good example for them in this regard. Granted infants are an exception to this role modeling, but children learn from a very young age how to model behavior.

It is not enough to be a “good listener”, althought that’s a great skill to have. Spouses need to contribute to the material wellbeing of one another, and that includes working really hard at some boring, mundane jobs around the house for the good of the order. Would you accept the “good listener” platitude if the complaint lodged were one that a spouse was unreliable and could not hold a job ad therefore did not hold up his end of the bargain?

 

[TheRealJuliane]

That is a common misconception about using medications as a way to manage ADD. That is not to say that medications are necessary to everyone operating in the world with this kind of a brain, but rather that there was probably never a drug that could make David Neeleman “just like the rest of you”. It’s just not going to happen, and anyone married to someone with ADD had better get used to that!

A loss in creativity is also not what many people with ADD who take the medications report; rather, the medications help them to make the most of their neurological make-up. There are authors with ADD who feel that in spite of their creative talents, they could never have turned a book out without the help of their medications. At any rate, whether or not to take the medications depends on the individual and the sorts of trade-offs that they personally experience when they take them. Some find they help; others don’t.

There are people with ADD who have come up with very good practical strategies that anyone who is “organizationally challenged” or who has a “crazy busy” life might find useful. In that sense, one doesn’t have to have the diagnosis to profit from those who have it, any more than one has to be an alcoholic to benefit from taking the Serenity Prayer to heart!

It is HIS perception, and from his standpoint, it is valid. My son takes stimulants when he is at school, and he does become quite a different person while he is on them. We all enjoy him much more when he’s on school holiday or on the weekends. His personality and creativity are DEFINITELY reduced when he is on the stimulants. Unfortunately, if he didn’t take them, he’d have even less success in school than he has. Even with them, school doesn’t come naturally to him. I have often thought over the years that he was simply born too late - he’d have been perfectly at home riding the range chasing coyotes away from a herd of cattle, or pioneering across the country, or trapping animals in the wilderness. A dog, a stick, and 100 acres of land would remove all vestiges of “ADHD.”

 

[EasterJoy]

It is HIS perception, and from his standpoint, it is valid. My son takes stimulants when he is at school, and he does become quite a different person while he is on them. We all enjoy him much more when he’s on school holiday or on the weekends. His personality and creativity are DEFINITELY reduced when he is on the stimulants. Unfortunately, if he didn’t take them, he’d have even less success in school than he has. Even with them, school doesn’t come naturally to him. I have often thought over the years that he was simply born too late - he’d have been perfectly at home riding the range chasing coyotes away from a herd of cattle, or pioneering across the country, or trapping animals in the wilderness. A dog, a stick, and 100 acres of land would remove all vestiges of “ADHD.”

I am of the train of thought that prefers not to medicate for anything when a good alternative exists, but that is not what I was getting at. Your son does not become like other kids, with or without medication, that is what I meant. There is not a pill that could do that, for which we can all be thankful. A dog and a stick wouldn’t do it, either.

The good part of living when we do is that your son is far less likely to have people tell him (as they might well have in the 1880s) that what was holding him back was a lack of character or intelligence, that he failed at school because he was lazy, stupid, or mentally deficient, perhaps all three, and not husband material for a decent hard-working woman. A dog, a stick, and a horse would hardly have made up for that!

Do not think that cowboys with your son’s make-up never had those charges levelled against them! Cattle ranching may play much more to his strengths than paperwork, but it does require a consider ability to self-direct and to stick with a task in spite of distractions.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

I am of the train of thought that prefers not to medicate for anything when a good alternative exists, but that is not what I was getting at. Your son does not become like other kids, with or without medication, that is what I meant. There is not a pill that could do that, for which we can all be thankful. A dog and a stick wouldn’t do it, either.

The good part of living when we do is that your son is far less likely to have people tell him (as they might well have in the 1880s) that what was holding him back was a lack of character or intelligence, that he failed at school because he was lazy, stupid, or mentally deficient, perhaps all three, and not husband material for a decent hard-working woman. A dog, a stick, and a horse would hardly have made up for that!

Do not think that cowboys with your son’s make-up never had those charges levelled against them! Cattle ranching may play much more to his strengths than paperwork, but it does require a consider ability to self-direct and to stick with a task in spite of distractions.

We differ greatly in our perspective on this topic. Back in the olden days, education in a school building wasn’t seen as necessary for life itself. And boys in particular weren’t expected to sit still and behave for 8 hours a day as they are now. Sure, there was punishment for their hi-jinks, but a certain amount of that just went with the territory. Boys weren’t seen as “disordered” because they needed to be active and physical. And the fathers would train them in the fields and on the trails, to work with their hands, etc. If you have never heard this, there is research that shows that being outdoors practically cures “ADHD” and that all these kids really need is more time in nature.

 

[EasterJoy]

We differ greatly in our perspective on this topic. Back in the olden days, education in a school building wasn’t seen as necessary for life itself. And boys in particular weren’t expected to sit still and behave for 8 hours a day as they are now. Sure, there was punishment for their hi-jinks, but a certain amount of that just went with the territory. Boys weren’t seen as “disordered” because they needed to be active and physical. And the fathers would train them in the fields and on the trails, to work with their hands, etc. If you have never heard this, there is research that shows that being outdoors practically cures “ADHD” and that all these kids really need is more time in nature.

Our difference may come from my Germanic background. What was expected “in the olden days” depended a great deal of where you spent your olden days. If you read the “Little House on the Prairie” series, you’ll know that there were times when children were expected to do an excruciating amount of quiet and behaved nothing on the Sabbath, for instance!

I grew up around boys; I know the difference between “hi-jinks” and ADD. “Hi-jinks” is the stuff that stops when the teacher walks in the room…excepting that some kids with ADD don’t seem to get those brakes on. Even way back when, there was the kid who “was always in trouble”, who didn’t follow through, the kid who you’d send out to do such-and-so and he’d “screw around all day instead”. IOW: not “disordered”, but rather a rotten kid of low moral fiber, (which some people argued that the vast majority of boys were) who was not going to grow up into foreman material, let’s just say that. I’m just saying that students who didn’t perform in school in the old days were liable to both corporal punishment and shaming, even if they were boys, just like the alcholics were put down as morally weak and disgusting examples of human nature at its worst.

I don’t doubt that today’s kids do need more time in nature and that many and perhaps most of the kids on the ADD continuum who now profit from medication would not have suffered from its absence under other circumstances. On top of that, now most kids start getting less movement at school at about the time they could use being run really hard, ADD or not. Our kids don’t have ADD, but we take them out for an hour or two every day–or to the courts at a gym–and it does them a world of good.

As for the OPs wife–the topic of the thread, after all–whether or not she has ADD, exercise and getting out of the house could definitely be part of what helps her get on track and stay there in the long run. I don’t know of an ADD plan that doesn’t make exercise just as important as the medications, if not more so!

 

[Cupofkindness]

I would highly recommend Sink Reflections by Marla Cilley:

amazon.com/Sink-Reflections-Marla-Cilley/dp/0553382179/ref=sr_1_1?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1331925702&sr=1-1

and also would recommend that the OP sign his wife up for the daily motivational emails that both inspire and outline a highly successful plan for creating a home through the basic concept of BABYSTEPS.

flylady.net/

Look for a link to sign her up for the daily “missions and flight plans.” Marla has left nothing unaccounted for. It is a wonderful system based on the Sidetracked Sisters someone mentioned up-thread. I hope that I’m not repeating information mentioned already by a prior poster.

Babystepping is the way a woman must develop the discipline and habits needed to create a beautiful, inviting home and a family life that nutures all of the individuals in the best way possible. It is your wifes job to do this, your life as a couple is out-of-wack because she is not carrying her share of the work. Being pregnant cannot become a day-in, day-out excuse to fail in the housework department. She is not the first woman to be in her situation and it is unacceptable that she use the excuse of her pregancy and energy level to justify lazy behavior. There are countless women who are far sicker when pregnant, caring for little ones that are way more demanding (or twin toddlers, or even children who are ill themselves) who manage to keep a clean and inviting home. The problem is that of bad habits. It will take a long time to reform her bad habits, but Flylady is the very best starting point for anyone to begin. Flylady’s approach does not demand perfection, but just a willingness to work according to a simple plan that in all seriousness, a child could easily do.

On her website and in her emails, Flylady does sell many of the products she recommends to her readership. I have never purchased any, and do just fine without them. Please don’t be put off by this. Marla (the Flylady) has pearls of common-sense wisdom to offer to just the sort of woman your wife is today. Flylady can change attitudes and give hope. Your wife needs practical support, but without help, the years will slip by and you, the husband, will be increasingly unhappy. Flylady is very accepting, Marla’s own story is one of years of undiagnosed depression, she understands what many women go through. Marla recognizes that thousands and thousands of women have undiagnosed ADD/ADHD. This program is about focus and simplification in order to reach realistic goals in babysteps. The perfect antidotes to the relentless, distracted thought patterns that some of us have going on constanly inside our heads. Flylady is a godsend.

If you have ever watched Hoarders, you can see the ultimate result of slovenly, disfunctional behavior and a pathological relationship to one’s home and material possessions. Watch a few episodes of this and both of you will be up and around cleaning in no time!

Start your wife and your family on the Flylady approach. It’s free and the emails are rather entertaining as well. It will gradually restore a desire for order and cleanliness in your wife, and even small progress will be a relief to you and improve your marriage. Try this first before counseling. Give her six months or so on the Flylady program. You will see a difference if she can be faithful in just small ways. Help her. This is mainly in her mind. Be cheerful and show her that she doesn’t need to move a mountain, jsut put a plate in the dishwasher. And you will save your wife the self-loathing and depression that most women feel when their home is a wreck for we know that ultimately it is our responsibility to create a beautiful home for our family. Convey to your wife your love for her, and your willingness to use the Flylady approach together, and in time things will be so much better. It won’t take long either, faithfulness in small things is key.

 

[aloe]

Please invest in some martial counseling for the sake of your marriage and your children.

 

[SpeSalvi]

I didn’t read the entire thread, so apologies if I say anything that’s already been brought up.

I came from a home very like your wife’s. It was DIRTY ALL the time, no one took responsibilities for meals, etc etc. Living on my own and then getting married was a HUGE shock to me.

A big problem my husband and I have run into is that our definitions of “clean” are vastly different. In coming to a compromise, I keep the house slightly cleaner than I would consider necessary and he’s worked on relaxing his standards a bit. As we live together longer and longer, we’ve been able to adapt to each other pretty well.

Marital counseling IS a good idea. Any therapist worth their salt won’t “side” with anyone. Period.

At one point in time my husband could’ve written this post. The only thing that really helped me understand where he was coming from was counseling.

 

[Alphonsus_John]

I understand what you’re going through. My wife came from a family of hoarders and the whole clean house thing has been rough. I work full time and do something like 80% of the housework. (My wife works full time too and we’re trying for children). Part of her issue is she hates to throw anything out; it physically upsets her. But the other part is she can be lazy. My wife knows it’s a failing of her and she does try.

We actually haven’t gone the counseling route. But we’ve done a lot of praying. Pray a lot, pray for her, be patient and willing to forgive. I know the wits end feeling. Some of it, IMO, is temptation.

Personally, and somewhat humorously, God know what we really want and I would much prefer a somewhat lazy wife than a list-maker with honey-do’s a mile long. One Saturday I was doing a lot of chores for hours and she handed me a beer and the x-box controller and said, “Please stop.”

 

[TheRealJuliane]

Marla’s own story is one of years of undiagnosed depression, she understands what many women go through. Marla recognizes that thousands and thousands of women have undiagnosed ADD/ADHD. This program is about focus and simplification in order to reach realistic goals in babysteps. The perfect antidotes to the relentless, distracted thought patterns that some of us have going on constanly inside our heads. Flylady is a godsend.

If you have ever watched Hoarders, you can see the ultimate result of slovenly, disfunctional behavior and a pathological relationship to one’s home and material possessions. Watch a few episodes of this and both of you will be up and around cleaning in no time!

Start your wife and your family on the Flylady approach. It’s free and the emails are rather entertaining as well. It will gradually restore a desire for order and cleanliness in your wife, and even small progress will be a relief to you and improve your marriage. Try this first before counseling. Give her six months or so on the Flylady program. You will see a difference if she can be faithful in just small ways. Help her. This is mainly in her mind. Be cheerful and show her that she doesn’t need to move a mountain, jsut put a plate in the dishwasher. And you will save your wife the self-loathing and depression that most women feel when their home is a wreck for we know that ultimately it is our responsibility to create a beautiful home for our family. Convey to your wife your love for her, and your willingness to use the Flylady approach together, and in time things will be so much better. It won’t take long either, faithfulness in small things is key.

I know you are probably aware of this, but Marla (the FlyLady) was in an abusive marriage, which was part of the reason for her depression and lack of interest in her surroundings. She’s such a great inspiration, for getting out of that marriage and working to improve her life.

 

[Bklynguy]

At one point in time my husband could’ve written this post. The only thing that really helped me understand where he was coming from was counseling.

This is very powerful. I will strongly consider this and discuss with my wife. I think we would defer counseling until after she has the baby, but it is probably a good idea. She even mentioned in passing in the past that she thinks we might be able to benefit from counseling—this is a good sign, because it shows she is open to the idea.

 

[montanaman]

Let me start off by saying that I am not perfect. Also, I realize that you will only be getting one side of the story here. Nonetheless, I will try my best to be as accurate and charitable as possible.

I am getting closer and closer to being at my wits end with my wife. We have a toddler and another child on the way. This hasn’t been the easiest pregnancy thus far, so I am trying to cut her slack; however, these problems existed before she got pregnant (indeed, before we had any kids). The issue is that I do most of the work around the house and run most of the errands; furthermore, I am also the breadwinner of the house. Actually, for the past three years since our first child was born, I’ve been the sole income earner with my wife as the stay at home.

I don’t know if I am being unreasonable, but I don’t think I should be expected to do most of the cleaning, most of the errand running and grocery shopping, cleaning up after the cats, taking out the garbage, as well as all the cooking over the weekend. I even have to many times cook for myself (and sometimes even the whole family) when I get home for work. Now, she will typically do all the laundry; however, even then, the clean laundry will many times sit there for days before it is even folded. We have lived in our new place for two years now and are just getting around to picking out curtains for the kitchen—and it is still mostly on my own doing. I went to the store to buy the rods and will probably lead the process of getting the curtains selected and put up. Also, one of our picture frames broke over the last couple of months–nothing has been done about it, so I am just going to have to suck it up and go out and buy one myself.

I know some of these things may seem like minor issues, but that is also part of the point. Why does every single, minor issue having to do with the home need to be on my plate? These are things that I think that my wife–as the stay at home mom and homemaker (I sort of say this tounge-in-cheek as she shouldn’t even have the right to call herself a homemaker)–can and should take responsibility for. Even small chores like vacuuming the rug many times will not get done unless I have to complain about it first. I actually take this personally because she doesn’t have to nag me to get up at 6AM and go to work to support our family—I just do it.

The issue is that I am starting to look at her as a slovenly person who doesn’t care what our house looks like, or the fact that it bothers me. Does anyone think I am being overly critical? I know it is hard to get into all the issues within one post. Has anyone had to deal with similar issues?

Thanks.

This seems like a long thread, so please forgive me if I say anything that’s already been said.

Get over it. Don’t jeapordize your marriage over trivial garbage. If the admittedly minor things drive you crazy, don’t do them. Let her. If the place turns into a pig sty, sweep it into the corner. Put it on her side of the bed. Whatever. But NOTHING in your first post seems worthy of saying you’ve “just about had it” with your wife. My wife tanked my relationship wiht my family due to her judgmental former fundamentalist upbringing. I love my family, as imperfect as they are. Now I can’t talk to them anymore. You’ve got a messy house? So what. Suck it up, Nancy. You have a child and another on the way. You’re in it for life. Unless there’s some other major issue not related in the OP, you have nothing to gripe about, and certainly nothing to potentially traumatize the kids over. Marriage is hard. Get over it. Go hug her, smooch her, tell her she’s beautiful. It’ll work out in the end if you can get over the petty BS.

 

[TheRealJuliane]

This seems like a long thread, so please forgive me if I say anything that’s already been said.

Get over it. Don’t jeapordize your marriage over trivial garbage. If the admittedly minor things drive you crazy, don’t do them. Let her. If the place turns into a pig sty, sweep it into the corner. Put it on her side of the bed. Whatever. But NOTHING in your first post seems worthy of saying you’ve “just about had it” with your wife. My wife tanked my relationship wiht my family due to her judgmental former fundamentalist upbringing. I love my family, as imperfect as they are. Now I can’t talk to them anymore. You’ve got a messy house? So what. Suck it up, Nancy. You have a child and another on the way. You’re in it for life. Unless there’s some other major issue not related in the OP, you have nothing to gripe about, and certainly nothing to potentially traumatize the kids over. Marriage is hard. Get over it. Go hug her, smooch her, tell her she’s beautiful. It’ll work out in the end if you can get over the petty BS.

Nope, nothing quite like that has been said yet!

:clapping::yup:

Love it!

 

[Bklynguy]

Nothing immature or idiotic about my first post to you!

I notice that many other posters are saying the same thing.

I’m not the one posting a thread looking for advice - which, so far, you don’t seem keen to implement

The :blackeye: remark was purely metaphoric, an expression used to indicate the level of unhappiness which would result :slapfight:between yourself and your wife should she take exception to your posting threads like this.

Sorry–I meant the second post.

And no worries–I appreciate your prayers and advice. My apologies to you for being too harsh.