Preventable loss of the Blessed Sacrament

[Eilish_Maura]

In all of the years I have received in the hand, I have had two or three times where there has been a recognizable fragment left in my hand - and each time I consumed it.

I think the basic presumption - that there are recognizable fragments in our hands a lot - is simply not sustained.

.

The basic presumption in this thread by the OP has been not only frequent recognizable fragments in our hands but no one has a clue what to do with recognizable fragments.

Neither aspect of this presumption has been sustained - repeated over and over but not sustained.

 

[Father_Fred]

In all of the years I have received in the hand, I have had two or three times where there has been a recognizable fragment left in my hand - and each time I consumed it.

Father Fred is delighted to hear this.

Had otjm checked his paten hand each time he received or were there times when he did not check his hand?

Had his bishop published instructions in the diocesan paper to check paten hands each time and consume any Fragments found?

Had his pastor in the parish bulletin?

I think the basic presumption - that there are recognizable fragments in our hands a lot - is simply not sustained.

For the fourteen years between my ordination and the introduction of Communion in the hand, a period when communion patens were always used in distributing Holy Communion, I served in a variety of liturgical settings. At Masses attended by more than five hundred communicants with two or more priests distributing Communion, all patens returned to the altar had some Fragments on them, say three to five. On the basis of this experience I estimate that one Fragment falls per 100 communicants. From the standpoint of the communicant this would be one Fragment per 100 communions received.

So where 500 receive Communion five clearly recognizable Fragments fall. If five Fragments are lost in a weekend of Masses in one parish because people don’t check their paten hands, is that “a lot”?

Having said that, I would agree with the posters that catechesis could be much better.

Catechesis certainly. How about enforcement?

However, I simply do not agree with the basic premise that this is a common and repeated occurance. It most certainly is not, in my experience.

Agreed. For otjm it would be one Fragment found per 100 Communions received.

Further, the point should be made that there is no sacrilege where there is no intent, as sacrilege implies intent at the minimum.

Agreed, but it is still Jesus, still loss, and still preventable by the great majority of communicants who don’t check their paten hands, i.e., who don’t use this ordinary means for preventing the loss.

And why don’t they use this ordinary means? **Because the pope, their bishop, and their pastor do not use the ordinary means **of telling everybody in writing to check their paten hands and making the slow learners do it.

For this priest one Fragment lost worldwide from now to the end of the world because the ordinary means to prevent it were not used is “a lot.”

 

[GemmaRose]

I once lived in a parish where the altar servers flanked the priest as he distributed Holy Communion. They were not holding patens. Apparently, they were not doing anything (except shifting from foot to foot and looking around). I never could figure out why they were instructed to do so. (Decorative purposes?)

They could have held patens. But I don’t believe that patens will solve the problem which is the subject of this thread.

What we need in the Catholic Church is catechesis. Catechesis on all levels.

Children come out of CCD programs, or even Catholic schools, knowing less about the faith than possibly any other subject. Adults come out of RCIA in the same condition. (If they did not, why the endless threads which begin, “I just became a Catholic and I have a question…”?) Why is there no continuing education for new Catholics? If they didn’t want or need it, they wouldn’t post to online forums!

I once was the adult facilitator at a table of teens who were coming into the Church at the Easter Vigil and being prepared for Confirmation some weeks following. I asked one teen what Easter meant to him and he said, “Uh, coloring Easter eggs.” (Might I add that I had in no way worked in the program. I was “emergency volunteered” by Sister Religious Director after some of the teachers had not shown up.)

Week after week after week our parish bulletins are littered with announcements about the times of Bingo… why not a weekly announcement about the proper way to receive the Body and Blood of Christ (not to mention a reminder that it IS the Body and Blood of Christ)?

Why not a bulletin insert telling people that if they receive in the hand, to check their hands for any crumbs or fragments, and if they find them to consume them, not brush them away as so much dust?

No, we can find room to print sports shedules, or who donated what for the week (When you give alms, do not blow a trumpet before you, as the hypocrites do in the synagogues and in the streets to win the praise of others. Amen, I say to you, they have received their reward. Matt 6:2), yet we cannot find space to speak about the Eucharist.

How many times have you seen bulletin announcements about proper attire in Church? Proper deportment?

Liturgy should be our primary concern and what we do best, yet it seems to be what we care about least.

Why?

---

*“I wish that my heart could beat, that I could live and breathe only for Jesus, I wish that my tongue could utter no other name than that of Jesus; that my eye could see only Jesus; that my pen could write only about Jesus, and that my thoughts could soar to nothing but Jesus. I have often wondered where on earth there might be something on which I could center my love. But neither on earth nor in heaven do I find any such thing but only my beloved Jesus… I am the fruit of your passion, Jesus, born of your wounds. O Jesus, seek me in love; I no longer possess anything; you have stolen my heart…” *- St. Gemma Galgani

 

[Eilish_Maura]

For the fourteen years between my ordination and the introduction of Communion in the hand, a period when communion patens were always used in distributing Holy Communion, I served in a variety of liturgical settings. At Masses attended by more than five hundred communicants with two or more priests distributing Communion, all patens returned to the altar had some Fragments on them, say three to five. On the basis of this experience I estimate that one Fragment falls per 100 communicants. From the standpoint of the communicant this would be one Fragment per 100 communions received.

So where 500 receive Communion five clearly recognizable Fragments fall. If five Fragments are lost in a weekend of Masses in one parish because people don’t check their paten hands, is that “a lot”?

Since you have been unable to show in your ‘experience’ that the same amount of fragments are ‘lost’ with CITH method it would seem using a paten encourages a sort of “someone else will take care of it” attitude vs responding to and properly disposing of fragments by the recipient.

 

[Father_Fred]

Since you have been unable to show in your ‘experience’ that the same amount of fragments are ‘lost’ with CITH method . . . .

So where 500 receive Communion five clearly recognizable Fragments fall.

This is a conclusion from Father Fred’s estimate that one Fragment falls per 100 Communions distributed. If it is a fact, it does not depend on the method of reception, whether in the hand (CH) or on the tongue (CT). So anyone who accepts his estimate for CTs, will also accept it for CHs.

Father Fred will accept a better estimate of the rate of falling Fragments per Communions distributed based on the experience he has narrated.

. . . it would seem using a paten encourages a sort of “someone else will take care of it” attitude. . .

The plainly observable fact is that the vast majority of CHs are not checking their paten hands and therefore are not consuming the Fragment that is there, however rarely. The result is that that rare Fragment, Jesus, is needlessly lost.

For “sheep” this is not surprising, so they need a “shepherd” to instruct them (catechesis) and then make sure they follow the instructions (enforcement).

. . . vs responding to and properly disposing of fragments by the recipient

Father Fred has no objection to people receiving Communion in the hand properly done, as Eilish Maura and other threaders are evidently doing.

The problem in church, though, is how do you recognize these (ten) from the (three hundred) who don’t?

Father Fred says you impose a moratorium on Communion in the hand for everyone until you figure out a practical way to tell one group from the other and work the difference into crowd movement. CHs who love Jesus enough will accept this moratorium, even if sadly.

He also thinks that when you’ve sweated over the recognition/crowd movement problem long enough without reaching a workable decision, you’ll decide that Communion in the hand isn’t worth the trouble.

After all, which is most important: the tongue, the hand, or Jesus Christ?

 

[Eilish_Maura]

What is with referring to oneself in 3rd person suddenly?

 

[Indyann]

What is with referring to oneself in 3rd person suddenly?

Hmmmmm, very strange:shrug:

 

[Father_Fred]

What is with referring to oneself in 3rd person . . .

Two reasons:

1. Talking about “Father Fred” rather than saying “I” and about “Eilish Maura” rather than saying “you” helps me view this discussion more through God’s eyes than my own. The more that happens the less likely will my feelings make me defend myself at the expense of His Truth. “I” and “you” too easily gets into distracting personality conflicts.
2. In longer posts it helps other readers keep track of who is responding to whom, especially if post numbers are added.

. . . suddenly?

Grace can work suddenly.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

OK this thread is getting strange(r).

I pray for a lock.

 

[stinkcat_14]

BASIC FACTS:

1. Clearly recognizable Fragments of the Blessed Sacrament fall in the distribution of Holy Communion.

It would seem that this whole debate revolves around the incidence of this first “fact”. How often does this occur? Once per 100, once per 10,000? The real question is: is the problem of falling fragments common or rare? How would we figure this out?

Father Brendan posted the following:

Fr. Fred, I find all of the comments in your first post to be accurate, except for #1 above. In ALL my years receiving the Eucharist, either western or eastern rites, there is only ONE time that a “clearly recognizable Fragment” of the Body has fallen on or near me. It fell on my cassock sleeve, and I immediately placed that portion of my cassock in my mouth and cleaned it off. Once I got home, I poured water through the part of the sleeve into a basin, and then drank the water. There was NO part of the Fragment remaining–But this has taken me 50 plus years of going to Communion as often as possible, including time as a Extraordinary Eucharistic Minister and deacon and priest–for this to happen to me.

I understand your concern, but with reasonable care, this simply is not going to happen.

Once in 50 years seems to be sufficiently rare to me, to not be that much of an issue. So the question is, how do we know who is right in the general sense?

 

[MrS]

It would seem that this whole debate revolves around the incidence of this first “fact”. How often does this occur? Once per 100, once per 10,000? The real question is: is the problem of falling fragments common or rare? How would we figure this out?

, to not be that much of an issue. ?

I don’t see that as the underlying concern.

To me it seems like the question might have been:

Can we better expect to lessen the loss of particles of the Real Presence
with the use of patents which a concerned priest will consume
or
with the use of our own hands which may or may not be treated with proper concern

Thus the concern narrows to the word concern.

Are enough priests concerned to use a paten and then follow-up
Are enough laity concerned to encourage the paten of gold and not rely on the paten of flesh?

.

 

[stinkcat_14]

I don’t see that as the underlying concern.

To me it seems like the question might have been:

Can we better expect to lessen the loss of particles of the Real Presence
with the use of patents which a concerned priest will consume
or
with the use of our own hands which may or may not be treated with proper concern

Thus the concern narrows to the word concern.

Are enough priests concerned to use a paten and then follow-up
Are enough laity concerned to encourage the paten of gold and not rely on the paten of flesh?

.

But of course, if you claim that we need a better method, then you to first need to establish that there is a problem. Fr. Fred has claimed that this is a problem, Fr Brendan has said that this is an extremely rare issue. So the question is, what is the extent of this “problem”?

 

[Father_Fred]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Father Fred
BASIC FACTS:

1. Clearly recognizable Fragments of the Blessed Sacrament fall in the distribution of Holy Communion.

It would seem that this whole debate revolves around the incidence of this first “fact”. How often does this occur? Once per 100, once per 10,000? The real question is: is the problem of falling fragments common or rare? How would we figure this out?

Father Fred presents his calculation in post #81 at “For the fourteen years . . . .” He is willing to accept a better estimate than 1 Fragment falling per 100 Communions distributed based on this experience.

Once in 50 years seems to be sufficiently rare to me, to not be that much of an issue.

Frbrenden does not report the loss, but the very careful preservation, of a fallen Fragment. This thread is not about loss that occurs in spite of careful use of the ordinary means to prevent it, and is therefore accidental, but about loss following neglect of those ordinary means.

Even so, forgetting once in 50 years, if stinkcat_14 were pope and knew that only one Fragment would fall worldwide from now to the end of the world, and that mandating CT worldwide with the use of communion patens would save that one Fragment, would he issue that mandate? If so, why?

So the question is, how do we know who is right in the general sense?

As for the frequency of falling Fragments,“we,” meaning people who do not distribute Holy Communion every day on the tongue with a communion paten, would be perfectly reasonable to take the word of priests, deacons, and EMCHs who do. Father Fred would not expect their estimates to vary widely from his of 1-100.

As for the importance of preventable loss of the Blessed Sacrament, even of a single instance, Jesus has the answer to that one and should be asked. But for openers, Father Fred knows that Father Fred would not like to be needlessly ground into a carpet or sucked up into a vacuum cleaner even once in the history of the world.

With that thought in mind Father Fred has just updated his signature.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

If the fragment could go unnoticed until the vacuum was taken out for cleaning then how ‘recognizable’ could it be?

 

[MrS]

If the fragment could go unnoticed until the vacuum was taken out for cleaning then how ‘recognizable’ could it be?

Well let’s see…

Pilate stood right in front of our Salvation, and asked “Truth, what is Truth”

He did not recognize the Lord either.

So when each of us is taken to our individual judgment for “cleaning”, I hope my only excuse for the way I received Him does not include “…sorry, I did not recognize you , and it was not really a concern of mine…”

.

 

[Eilish_Maura]

Well let’s see…

Pilate stood right in front of our Salvation, and asked “Truth, what is Truth”

He did not recognize the Lord either.

So when each of us is taken to our individual judgment for “cleaning”, I hope my only excuse for the way I received Him does not include “…sorry, I did not recognize you , and it was not really a concern of mine…”

.

:yawn:

 

[Father_Fred]

A friend sends me this from Scottsdale, Arizona.

More than once my “hand-paten” has found The
Blessed Sacrament – Lord Jesus – in my palm.
Thank you Father Simunich!

Bob Novascone, Scottsdale, AZ

 

[musicmantg11]

About three years ago at my parish, a EMHC dropped a host. They picked it up and checked for fragments and did not see any visible ones. Our hosts are very solid and no crumbly edges like some hosts. But still, I’m sure fragments can easily break off the host.

I always check my “Paten hand” for fragments of the Blessed Sacrament. I found several times actually when I receive Communion in the hand small fragments of the Eucharist. I made sure I consumed them.

I agree with Gemma Rose about the bulletin. The bulletin at the parish I belong to is always about donations, parties, bingo, etc. I will suggest to the bulletin editor about an insert about the receiving the Holy Eucharist in the hand to check for small fragments and if you find any consume them.

 

[SacredHeartFan]

This horse is dead.

 

[GemmaRose]

This horse is dead.

Not to someone who’s found this thread for the first time.

Besides, musicmantg11’s post caused this topic to come back to the more current listings of posts. Maybe it was the Lord’s way to bring it to the attention of someone who is new to CAF and who really needs to learn to check his or her “paten hand.”