Priest in lesbian communion controversy no longer works with DC archdiocese

[Iaamiccwint]

Yup. Religious voices silenced, religious activities stomped, religious preferences swatted down.

God Bless America.

I’m sorry, but religion has no place in the public school sysyem. If that’s a problem, than send your kids to a Jewish, Christian, or Islamic school. Catholic schools are pretty much in every city in the country.

Religion does not and should not have a place in public schools.

Peace.

a Dios sea toda la Gloria.

 

[Iaamiccwint]

I’m also a Child of the 90s, I’m pursuing a degree in Theology (I have two papers published in undergraduate journals one on Sacramental Theology and the other on Church History) and Philosophy. My main Professors in Theology are Orthodox and Catholic (who taught alongside the then Professor Joseph Cardinal Ratzinger now Pope Benedict XVI and Hans Kung) so I think I will chip in.

Theologically what you are saying is heresy, the heresy of relativism. The Priest could openly see she was committed to her Sin and as Christ stated but also more specifically as St. Paul said [BIBLEDRB]1 Cor 11:26-30[/BIBLEDRB]

If the Priest had allowed her to receive Christ himself in the Most Holy Eucharist, he would of allowed her to receive her own condemnation upon herself. The Priest had to look out for her soul and therefore had to refuse her Holy Communion.

Now on to your view points…

Liberalism has obviously infiltrated your faith, relativist ideas are heresy (part of the heresy of Modernism, as condemned by St Pius X) I can not be more charitable than to call heresy exactly what it is. Your opinions do not matter on matters of reception of the Eucharist and all matters of Faith and Morals, to paraphrase the great Doctor of the Church St Augustine (ora pro nobis), ‘Roma Locuta Est, Causa Finita Est’ meaning Rome has Spoken the Matter is Finished. If you wish me to go in depth respond to my post and list the points you have of contentions (such as Eastern Philosophies, other religions and ‘separation of Church and State’ which all need to be addressed) and I will go through Orthodox teaching.

Also a note ‘progressive’ has no place in Catholicism you’re either orthodox or heterodox, meaning you are either in line with the teaching of the Church or you are not. You have different spiritualities within the Church such as: Franciscan, traditional, Benedictine, charismatic, Eastern (this is mainly a theological tradition, not a spirituality) etc

So you’re telling me liberal and progessive nuns and priests are destined to hell?
Well, to be frank the only good nuns and priests I have exeprienced in my life were those had liberal and progressive views.

Amen to that.

Peace and blessings.

a Dios sea toda la Gloria!

 

[The_Scott]

So you’re telling me liberal and progessive nuns and priests are destined to hell?

Where exactly did he say that? Where exactly did he say they are “destined to hell?”

Well, to be frank the only good nuns and priests I have exeprienced in my life were those had liberal and progressive views.

And why is that? You are either “Catholic” or you aren’t. Just like how you are either pregnant or you aren’t. There is no “middle ground.” To be Catholic is to accept the teachings of the Church, the Pope, believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, believe in Purgatory (and so on). But you also have to believe that abortion is intrinsically evil, akin to murder; that gay marriage is unnatural, that euthanasia is also contrary to the natural law (which, by the way, does NOT mean “law of nature” in the environmental sense).

 

[daisybee]

Well, to be frank the only good nuns and priests I have exeprienced in my life were those had liberal and progressive views.

Wow, that’s a slap! I would say that the religious who have most inspired me were the ones who were heroically committed to preaching the truth in and out of season, in word and deed, and who selflessly sacrificed themselves in whatever way they were called, whether by ministry to the poor, the aged, their community members in a cloister, etc.

We never tried to categorize them; it was not anything relevant to discussion or their living out the Gospel closely united to Christ.

 

[Iaamiccwint]

Where exactly did he say that? Where exactly did he say they are “destined to hell?”

And why is that? You are either “Catholic” or you aren’t. Just like how you are either pregnant or you aren’t. There is no “middle ground.” To be Catholic is to accept the teachings of the Church, the Pope, believe in the Real Presence of Christ in the Eucharist, believe in Purgatory (and so on). But you also have to believe that abortion is intrinsically evil, akin to murder; that gay marriage is unnatural, that euthanasia is also contrary to the natural law (which, by the way, does NOT mean “law of nature” in the environmental sense).

AS IN…hereticts are destined to hell, no?

I never said that I DO NOT BELIEVE abortion is evil. I very much beleive abortion is evil, however I just don’t believe it should be unlawful. This is something that should remain lawful even though I believe it’s wrong. Even Jesuit priest Robert Drinan believed this. Gay marriage is unnatural?! Well, shaving and having haircuts is unatural. Wearing clothes, shoes, and hats are unatural. So, tell me again being gay or gay marriage is unatural. Celibacy is unatural. Fasting is unatural. But, we as humans can freely choose our own lives and destiny. Let gays be! God loves them!

I’m confident that my Lord Jesus loves me. I believe my Savior forgives my sins. Christ would sit with the gays just as he sat with the tax collectors, drunks, lepers, and prostitutes.

Peace and blessings.

a Dios sea toda la Gloria

 

[Iaamiccwint]

Also American Nuns who are being persecuted by the Vatican are doing Christ’s work here on earth. These Nuns are doing so many good things in this Country, but these old White men in the Church Hirearchy just don’t understand that. These good Nuns support the LGBT community, and I commend them for that.

 

[daisybee]

AS IN…hereticts are destined to hell, no?

I never said that I DO NOT BELIEVE abortion is evil. I very much beleive abortion is evil, however I just don’t believe it should be unlawful. This is something that should remain lawful even though I believe it’s wrong. Even Jesuit priest Robert Drinan believed this. Gay marriage is unnatural?! Well, shaving and having haircuts is unatural. Wearing clothes, shoes, and hats are unatural. So, tell me again being gay or gay marriage is unatural. Celibacy is unatural. Fasting is unatural. But, we as humans can freely choose our own lives and destiny. Let gays be! God loves them!

I’m confident that my Lord Jesus loves me. I believe my Savior forgives my sins. Christ would sit with the gays just as he sat with the tax collectors, drunks, lepers, and prostitutes.

Peace and blessings.

a Dios sea toda la Gloria

I don’t understand. Could you please explain why you believe abortion should be lawful? And why do you not believe that sins of unchastity are gravely sinful and are a major obstacle to someone’s salvation, especially given all the Scriptural warnings that caution us against unchastity?

 

[daisybee]

Also American Nuns who are being persecuted by the Vatican are doing Christ’s work here on earth. These Nuns are doing so many good things in this Country, but these old White men in the Church Hirearchy just don’t understand that. These good Nuns support the LGBT community, and I commend them for that.

laamiccwint, it seems that there are some foundational Church teachings that you disagree with. Which ones specifically do you agree with? Say, three or so–which ones are most important to you?

I’m just having a hard time trying to understand where you’re coming from.

 

[Skeptic92]

So you’re telling me liberal and progessive nuns and priests are destined to hell?
Well, to be frank the only good nuns and priests I have exeprienced in my life were those had liberal and progressive views.

Amen to that.

Peace and blessings.

a Dios sea toda la Gloria!

It depends what Liberalism are you on about? Classical Liberalism, or Neo-liberalism? Neo-liberalism would mean advocation (or silent compliance) of contraception, Same-sex marriage, abortion and total revocation of freedom of religion with it being replaced with a freedom of worship (total removing of religion from the public sphere). All of this is objectively immoral and contrary to Natural Law, the ‘liberal’ nuns and Priests you have met, if they speak in favour of any of these they are speaking contrary to the Church, therefore they are speaking objective falsehoods (as doctrinally the Church is perfect, holding the fullness of Truth) and should re-examine their opinions and conform to the teaching of God instead of the pride of man.

One such ‘liberal’ group of religious sisters in the US the LCWS has been under scrutiny and is facing investigation by the Congregation of the Doctrine of the Faith If you are unsure how serious that is the Congregation can give the official recommendation that they are suppressed and face discipline for their silent compliance in their silent compliance in many areas that the Catholic Church has solemnly defined (under inspiration of the Holy Spirit, therefore it is Truth not subject to change) to be immoral, sinful or an act of apostasy.

Truth is not subjective what is Truth today shall be Truth in 1000 years and was True 2000 years ago. My favourite quote on this subject comes from the Venerable Archbishop Fulton Sheen
Venerable Archbishop Fulton Sheen:

Right is right, even if no one is right. Wrong is wrong, even if everyone is wrong.

, but also from one of my favourite Theologians and Philosophers the great Angelic Doctor
St Thomas Aquinas:

Hold firmly that our faith is identical with that of the ancients. Deny this, and you dissolve the unity of the Church.

from these quotes two great men the Church have recognized, one being investigated whether he has attained deification and the other canonised and a Doctor of the Church, we see morality (and truth) is not subjective and therefore we must hold to the teachings of the Church. The Church teaches that we must oppose Abortion and all things immoral for not just our good, but the good of our neighbour (one of the 7 spiritual acts of charity/love is that of the correction of the sinner), that means opposing all policy that makes immoral acts normal and regular instead of helping those attain a truly moral life.

To say that morality is relative and all religions are equal is heresy, remember that the Church teaches (in the Ordinary) ‘extra ecclesiam nulla salus’ (outside of the Church there is no salvation). We do however hope that others that may not be physically within the Church may attain salvation but it is not ordinary which is why we must (to quote St Francis of Assisi) ‘Preach the Gospel always, when necessary use words’ and hope to bring all of our Brothers and Sisters into the Catholic Church (the Orthodox are slightly weirder, they are members of the Catholic Church just not in Communion with Rome…yet!) so that we all have the best and most hopeful way to attain salvation.

I am currently very tired, both physically and intellectually, I have just finished reading part of the Summa, and attempting to understand it so my head really does hurt! I will respond more at length tomorrow (well later today) after I’ve had a good night sleep, as I fear I have begun to waffle, and that is no good for me or you in understanding the Catholic Faith.

Remember in the Creed we state: Credo…in Unum Sanctam, Catholicam et Apostolicam Ecclesiam ‘I Believe…in One, Holy, Catholic, and Apostolic Church’. The Church is only One when we are united in faith and doctrine, She is only Holy as Christ is Holy, and as such She must teach the truth, she is Catholic as She is Universal (throughout the world) and She is Apostolic as She holds the faith of the Apostles, and continues their ministry as they are the ones who built her after Christ resurrected.

EDIT: Nuns persecuted by the Vatican? They should honour their Vow of Obedience to the Holy Father and be One in Faith with the Church, or apostatise so they do not poison any more souls with their relativist heresy.

Here is the Encyclical by St Pius X against Modernism, give it a read papalencyclicals.net/Pius10/p10pasce.htm I would love to quote flash points for you but I prefer a paper copy, as reading a computer screen for to long really hurts!

God Bless!

 

[The_Scott]

AS IN…hereticts are destined to hell, no?

Not necessarily. We honestly do not know who is destined to Hell. Only God knows if they truly admit to heresy. Also, they may well confess. Who knows? I certainly don’t. We can only hope for heretics who openly deny Christ’s teachings.

I never said that I DO NOT BELIEVE abortion is evil. I very much beleive abortion is evil, however I just don’t believe it should be unlawful. This is something that should remain lawful even though I believe it’s wrong.

As I said before in this thread:

Why should we have murder illegal then? After all, I believe murder wrong. Just like abortion. But why don’t we legalize someone intentionally killing another person?

“I believe abortion is wrong, but it shouldnt illegall” is the same as saying “I believe abortion is wrong, but it shouldn’t be illegal” or “I think rape is wrong, but it shouldn’t be illegal.”

Even Jesuit priest Robert Drinan believed this.

The Popes for the last 2,000 years say that abortion should be illegal. Why listen to a priest compared to the popes? Pope Benedict XVI - an expert theologian, scholar, intellectual - believes it should be illegal. Cardinal Timothy Dolan, the most appreciated cardinal in the US, believes this as well.

Gay marriage is unnatural?! Well, shaving and having haircuts is unatural. Wearing clothes, shoes, and hats are unatural. So, tell me again being gay or gay marriage is unatural. Celibacy is unatural. Fasting is unatural.

First, it’s spelled “unnatural.”

Second, I expected this “retort” from you. That is why I said that natural law “does NOT mean “law of nature” in the environmental sense.”

Natural law means, basically, that everything should try to act by its natural purpose. If you see a bulimic, you would say that they are perverting the natural purpose of the digestic system. Same thing with the sexual organs. The penis and vagina have a natural match - perfect for each other - to reproduce. To use the penis for gay or anal sex, or masturbation, is a perversion of the natural purpose of the male genitals. To use the female genitals for masturbation, or lesbian sex, is a perversion of the natural purpose of the vagina. Simple as that.

Next time, try to understand what it is meant when you debate. The natural law has NOTHING to do with shaving, celibacy (which Christ praised, by the way, since it is a sacrifice to give up our inclination; same with fasting).

But, we as humans can freely choose our own lives and destiny.

Does that include pedophiles, bulimics, mentally unstable psychopaths, rapists, incestuous relationships? Why stop at gays?

Let gays be! God loves them!

As so do we. But we love the sinner, not the sin. When Christ caught the women in adultery, he didn’t say “Keep doing what you’re doing, I love you no matter what.” He said: “Go, and sin no more.”

I’m confident that my Lord Jesus loves me. I believe my Savior forgives my sins. Christ would sit with the gays just as he sat with the tax collectors, drunks, lepers, and prostitutes.

Please see above.

 

[The_Scott]

Also American Nuns who are being persecuted by the Vatican are doing Christ’s work here on earth.

Such as social work for the poor and hungry. Which the Vatican praised. Did you even read the document, or do you go along with media reports without checking the sources?

These Nuns are doing so many good things in this Country, but **these old White men in the Church Hirearchy **just don’t understand that.

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Oh, so its the old white oppressive men again! I should have known!

These good Nuns support the LGBT community, and I commend them for that.

You go against your Church for that.

 

[Iaamiccwint]

I don’t understand. Could you please explain why you believe abortion should be lawful? And why do you not believe that sins of unchastity are gravely sinful and are a major obstacle to someone’s salvation, especially given all the Scriptural warnings that caution us against unchastity?

Father Robert Drinan once said that morality and legality are two different things.
Any good law student or criminal justice student would agree.

Chastity is a good thing. Sex is also a good thing. Both are equally good things.

I’m pretty sure God is not going to prevent a gay couple from entering into heaven.
I’m confident that My Jesus would not condem gay people. My Lord Jesus loves the LGBT community.

 

[Skeptic92]

Father Robert Drinan once said that morality and legality are two different things.
Any good law student or criminal justice student would agree.

Chastity is a good thing. Sex is also a good thing. Both are equally good things.

I’m pretty sure God is not going to prevent a gay couple from entering into heaven.
I’m confident that My Jesus would not condem gay people. My Lord Jesus loves the LGBT community.

However Christ would tell them to ‘go forth and sin no more’ not to relish and live in sin. This is relativism, the homosexual act is objectively sinful and since it can constitute a Mortal Sin if they die unrepentent in that state it could damn then, as they chose sin over Gods Law.

 

[jwinch2]

Father Robert Drinan once said that morality and legality are two different things.
Any good law student or criminal justice student would agree.

Chastity is a good thing. Sex is also a good thing. Both are equally good things.

I’m pretty sure God is not going to prevent a gay couple from entering into heaven.
I’m confident that My Jesus would not condem gay people. My Lord Jesus loves the LGBT community.

You can go ahead and follow whatever teaching you wish, but at least have the integrity to tell your pastor that you disagree with fundamental tenets of the Faith and should not serve in the capacity of an Extraordinary Minister of Holy Communion.

As for the rest, I think I will stick with the Sacred Tradition of the Church handed down Christ through the Apostles and taught by the Magesterium and the Pope.

 

[Iaamiccwint]

However Christ would tell them to ‘go forth and sin no more’ not to relish and live in sin. This is relativism, the homosexual act is objectively sinful and since it can constitute a Mortal Sin if they die unrepentent in that state it could damn then, as they chose sin over Gods Law.

That’s not very nice!
Only God holds salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ!
That’s pretty mean, saying they “may” be damned.

Not nice!

 

[Lochias]

I’m sorry, but religion has no place in the public school sysyem. If that’s a problem, than send your kids to a Jewish, Christian, or Islamic school. Catholic schools are pretty much in every city in the country.

Religion does not and should not have a place in public schools.

Peace.

a Dios sea toda la Gloria.

Why not?

 

[Lochias]

AS IN…hereticts are destined to hell, no?

I never said that I DO NOT BELIEVE abortion is evil. I very much beleive abortion is evil, however I just don’t believe it should be unlawful.

This is something that should remain lawful even though I believe it’s wrong. Even Jesuit priest Robert Drinan believed this. Gay marriage is unnatural?! Well, shaving and having haircuts is unatural. Wearing clothes, shoes, and hats are unatural. So, tell me again being gay or gay marriage is unatural. Celibacy is unatural. Fasting is unatural. But, we as humans can freely choose our own lives and destiny. Let gays be! God loves them!

I’m confident that my Lord Jesus loves me. I believe my Savior forgives my sins. Christ would sit with the gays just as he sat with the tax collectors, drunks, lepers, and prostitutes.

I call troll on this guy. Troll. Trolly-trolly-troll troll troll.

TROLL. Trolltrolltroll.

No Catholic who is serious about their faith thinks as you do. You are not a practicing Catholic. Jesus would certainly sit with the gays, but he’d never condone their behavior.

 

[The_Scott]

That’s not very nice!
Only God holds salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ!
That’s pretty mean, saying they “may” be damned.

Not nice!

You completely ignored his point.

 

[Lochias]

That’s not very nice!
Only God holds salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ!
That’s pretty mean, saying they “may” be damned.

Not nice!

troll troll troll. Troll.

 

[Skeptic92]

That’s not very nice!
Only God holds salvation through our Lord Jesus Christ!
That’s pretty mean, saying they “may” be damned.

Not nice!

We call it tough love, to not tell the sinner that they are sinning (and relishing in sin) is to sni ourselves and to not show love to our neighbour. One of the 7 Spiritual Works of Mercy is to admonish the sinner, I can say which acts have the potential to damn people as this is objectively laid out for us through Natural Law, Scripture and the Teaching of the Magisterium. To hear the Truth can be hard, I know it was for me but instead of living in my habitual sin I choose to fight it. As I lay at the foot of the Cross and announce unto heaven ‘Lord Have Mercy on me a Sinner, give me the strength to never sin again, Kyrie Eleison’, my sins have the capacity to damn me, but I choose God over Sin as should homosexuals.