Priest In Texas Newspaper: "Homosexual Acts Lead To The Damnation Of Souls" [EWTN]

[larkin31]

It has no authority.

It can be ignored? Why won’t you answer this?

24 years… so what? Homosexual behavior was sinful then, is sinful now, and will remain sinful in the future. Church teaching is not going to change just because you don’t like it.

I am certainly not trying to change it. You are off the topic.

It says lots of things, but the part you don’t like is that homosexual attraction is intrinsically disordered and homosexual behavior is gravely sinful.

I don’t mind the church teaching on homosexuality at all, personally. It is irrelevant to me, personally. I am not in this discussion for personal reasons.

You provided Bible proofs condemning homosexual behavior in another post IIRC.

I don’t claim that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality. I never have claimed such. This is off my point here, too.

I want to know if you think that you can dismiss the points about self reflection and treating God’s creatures with love that were expressed in the letter to American Bishops from just 4 years ago? Do you feel morally free to ignore doctrine expressed by the USCCB?

Perhaps if you read it and could refer to a passage that you feel is not in keeping with Catholic doctrine? My sense is that you do not actually know what is in it.

 

[larkin31]

What is it that you see in the document to support your pro-homosexual position? It is consistent with every other document I have read in the Church regarding homosexuality.

Just point to a document and saying “it’s in there - read it” is an ineffective method of trying to prove a point. I’ve read it and still have no idea what you are getting at.

I am not trying to “prove” anything. I am making no forensic claims here. I am simply wondering how a Catholic would respond to the clear message at the start of this letter, approved by the entire council, that asks bishops to examine themselves for sin in their views and attitudes and ministering to gays?

Here, in particular, bishops are asked not to contribute to the pattern of “injustice” that gays have been subjected to in this country:

Those who would minister in the name of the Church must in no way contribute to such injustice. They should prayerfully examine their own hearts in order to discern any thoughts or feelings that might stand in need of purification. Those who minister are also called to growth in holiness. In fact, the work of spreading the Good News involves an ever-increasing love for those to whom one is ministering by calling them to the truth of Jesus Christ.4

I, for one, am greatly heartened that the American bishops at least have justice in mind, rather than simply ignore the issue. And the humility of self-examination is good for us all on this topic, no?

It is good for me.

Is it good for any of those here condemning homosexuality as immoral? Are you free of sin in your attitude toward gays? Do you need purification in this matter? I work on my prejudices daily (not always successfully). Do you?

 

[rlg94086]

I am not trying to “prove” anything. I am making no forensic claims here. I am simply wondering how a Catholic would respond to the clear message at the start of this letter, approved by the entire council, that asks bishops to examine themselves for sin in their views and attitudes and ministering to gays?

Here, in particular, bishops are asked not to contribute to the pattern of “injustice” that gays have been subjected to in this country:

I, for one, am greatly heartened that the American bishops at least have justice in mind, rather than simply ignore the issue. And the humility of self-examination is good for us all on this topic, no?

It is good for me.

Is it good for any of those here condemning homosexuality as immoral? Are you free of sin in your attitude toward gays? Do you need purification in this matter? I work on my prejudices daily (not always successfully). Do you?

Interesting. My view and attitude towards people with homosexual inclinations is in line with this letter, so I’m not sure what you mean by “prejudices.”

Being against civil unions and “gay marriage” is a just position according to the Church - including this letter. Denying communion to and prohibiting someone who is in the state of mortal sin from holding certain positions or roles in the Church is also a just position.

Clearly, as the letter states, ministering to those who have homosexual inclinations is important and must be done with love. That love includes being very clear about the sinfulness of living a “gay” lifestyle and the call to chastity that we all have.

I don’t see anything in the article this thread is about that is contrary to this letter.

 

[1holycatholic]

It can be ignored? Why won’t you answer this?

I have already answered this.

I am certainly not trying to change it. You are off the topic.

I don’t mind the church teaching on homosexuality at all, personally. It is irrelevant to me, personally. I am not in this discussion for personal reasons.

We get it. You’re not homosexual. Thanks for sharing.

I don’t claim that the Bible does not condemn homosexuality. I never have claimed such. This is off my point here, too.

You did, accidentally, you just can’t bring yourself to admit it.

I want to know if you think that you can dismiss the points about self reflection and treating God’s creatures with love that were expressed in the letter to American Bishops from just 4 years ago? Do you feel morally free to ignore doctrine expressed by the USCCB?

I have already told you that the USCCB has no authority, nor does any other national conference.

Homosexual activity is gravely sinful and it is not an act of love to confirm a sinner in their sin. The document you cite does not permit confirming sinners in their sin.

Perhaps if you read it and could refer to a passage that you feel is not in keeping with Catholic doctrine? My sense is that you do not actually know what is in it.

Where exactly does it say that homosexual behavior is acceptable?

 

[larkin31]

I have already answered this.

You wrote something off the topic. You might call it an “answer,” but it was evasive.

We get it. You’re not homosexual. Thanks for sharing.

Why are you snippy?

You did, accidentally, you just can’t bring yourself to admit it.

Even when I say that I acknowledge that the Bible condemns homosexuality, you say that I don’t acknowledge it. You have strange reasoning on this.

I have already told you that the USCCB has no authority, nor does any other national conference.

I grant that. I want to know if you think that you can morally ignore its recommendations.

Homosexual activity is gravely sinful and it is not an act of love to confirm a sinner in their sin. The document you cite does not permit confirming sinners in their sin.

Of course not. I did not say that it did. Once again, you are changing the topic.

Where exactly does it say that homosexual behavior is acceptable?

It doesn’t.

I am asking if you feel morally free to ignore its recommendations about in what spirit to minster to gays.

 

[larkin31]

Interesting. My view and attitude towards people with homosexual inclinations is in line with this letter, so I’m not sure what you mean by “prejudices.”

Being against civil unions and “gay marriage” is a just position according to the Church - including this letter. Denying communion to and prohibiting someone who is in the state of mortal sin from holding certain positions or roles in the Church is also a just position.

Clearly, as the letter states, ministering to those who have homosexual inclinations is important and must be done with love. That love includes being very clear about the sinfulness of living a “gay” lifestyle and the call to chastity that we all have.

I don’t see anything in the article this thread is about that is contrary to this letter.

Thanks for answering directly. I appreciate it.

 

[rlg94086]

Thanks for answering directly. I appreciate it.

Okay…so you agree with me that there is nothing in the letter that contradicts any of the other Church teaching regarding homosexuality or the statements by Fr. Rodriguez?

 

[larkin31]

Okay…so you agree with me that there is nothing in the letter that contradicts any of the other Church teaching regarding homosexuality or the statements by Fr. Rodriguez?

Not that I could see, no. It begins with a very different tone, however, and asks bishops not to contribute to injustice toward gays and to examine and purify their own hearts first around this matter of relating to gays. I have simply been probing some posters here that post in a self-righteous tone to see if they will grant the issues that the bishops’ council acknowledges. So far, only you have.

And thanks again, by the way.

I, too, must work daily on my prejudices.

 

[rlg94086]

Not that I could see, no. It begins with a very different tone, however, and asks bishops not to contribute to injustice toward gays and to examine and purify their own hearts first around this matter of relating to gays. I have simply been probing some posters here that post in a self-righteous tone to see if they will grant the issues that the bishops’ council acknowledges. So far, only you have.

And thanks again, by the way.

I, too, must work daily on my prejudices.

Okay then…so far, we have agreement twice! This most recent question and music by Pete Townshend.

 

[1holycatholic]

You wrote something off the topic. You might call it an “answer,” but it was evasive.

It’s not evasive. I don’t feed the trolls.

I am asking if you feel morally free to ignore its recommendations about in what spirit to minster to gays.

I don’t minister to homosexuals. Fr. Rodriguez does and he’s doing it very well and in accordance with the teaching of the Church.

I’m not embarrassed to proclaim what the Church teaches.

 

[larkin31]

Okay then…so far, we have agreement twice! This most recent question and music by Pete Townshend.

My guru!

Don’t distract me…I will venture over to Youtube and get lost for an hour!

 

[larkin31]

It’s not evasive. I don’t feed the trolls.

Are you calling me a “troll”?

I don’t minister to homosexuals. Fr. Rodriguez does and he’s doing it very well and in accordance with the teaching of the Church.

I’ll take that as a “No.”

 

[1holycatholic]

Are you calling me a “troll”?

Are you trolling? You’ve already said you have no “personal reason” to be in the thread.

I’ll take that as a “No.”

:yawn:

 

[larkin31]

Are you trolling? You’ve already said you have no “personal reason” to be in the thread.

I thought I was making a mature, adult remark by saying that it was not “personal” to me. I have no grudge in this either way. I am hear to learn about Catholic thinking, but their dogma has no meaning or relevance to me in how I make my decisions. But we all have to live together, and we have to work out a system of laws, and I am always interested in that process.

That’s not my understanding of “trolling”. I can make it “personal,” if you would like!

 

[pnewton]

I thought I was making a mature, adult remark by saying that it was not “personal” to me. I have no grudge in this either way. I am hear to learn about Catholic thinking, but their dogma has no meaning or relevance to me in how I make my decisions. But we all have to live together, and we have to work out a system of laws, and I am always interested in that process.

That’s not my understanding of “trolling”. I can make it “personal,” if you would like!

Please don’t. Name-calling is seldom a useful response to name-calling. We have moderators to sort such things out.

 

[larkin31]

Please don’t. Name-calling is seldom a useful response to name-calling. We have moderators to sort such things out.

I know. The offer was tongue-in-cheek…

 

[1holycatholic]

I am hear to learn about Catholic thinking, but their dogma has no meaning or relevance to me in how I make my decisions.

You spent a lot of time and effort in a futile attempt to disprove the Church’s teaching on divorce and remarriage.

 

[buffalo]

I am hear to learn about Catholic thinking, but their dogma has no meaning or relevance to me in how I make my decisions.

Oh yes it does.

Ever hear of the 10 commandments?

Unless of course you subscribe to the atheist version.

 

[larkin31]

You spent a lot of time and effort in a futile attempt to disprove the Church’s teaching on divorce and remarriage.

I made no such attempt to “disprove” anything.

Would you please stop focusing on me. There is a topic here.

 

[larkin31]

Oh yes it does.

Ever hear of the 10 commandments?

Unless of course you subscribe to the atheist version.

ditto