Priest says no Kneeling, prefer no receiving Communion on tongue

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One of the reasons I read and post rather infrequently to these forae is that I don’t like how priests are treated. The sentiment I often read is, “Father’s wrong! You should write to the bishop! And if that fails, write to Rome!” Leaving aside the fact that no bishop that I know of has time to deal with every perceived liturgical abuse out there, we never hear the other side of the story. People are slow to listen and quick to judge when it comes to anything remotely resembling liturgical abuse. The reality is that most, and dare I say all, priests truly love the Lord and their people. They are trying to do the best they can with limited resources. We’re not perfect. We fail at our jobs, too. We don’t need criticisms; we need prayers.
But Father, what is so difficult about saying the black and doing the red? The Liturgy is clearly laid out, why the need to alter things, drop things, add things etc?

As a Catholic I don’t want a Mass that represents the mind of Father X, I want a Mass that represents the mind of the Church. Usually when a priest chooses to omit, or alter a part of the Mass, he does this consistently and this more often than not is done because he, personally, has an issue with something. Liturgy is a language that expresses theological meaning, change the language used and you alter the meaning. The priest is a servant of the Liturgy, it is not his property (nor is it the property of the congregation), therefore neither he (nor the community) have any right to alter it.

There are enough options already in the Roman missal (choice of 3 Penitential Acts, choice of 4 Eucharistic Prayers etc) why the need to make unauthorised changes?

There is also the issue that it is the right of the Faithful to have the liturgy carried out according to the norms and rubrics as laid down by the Church. What is so wrong on the faithful wanting their rights within the Church being upheld?

Yes priests need our prayers, you have a challenging job with huge responsibility (you don’t get much more responsibility on this planet than the pastoral care of souls) and yes like all of us, priests make mistakes. But whereas making an unintentional mistake is one thing, deliberately choosing to alter the liturgy is not a mistake, it is an intentional act. Redemptionis Saramentum makes it very clear that it is a duty incumbent on all of us (laity included) do do all in our power to stop liturgical abuses, without favouritism.
 
But Father, what is so difficult about saying the black and doing the red? The Liturgy is clearly laid out, why the need to alter things, drop things, add things etc?

As a Catholic I don’t want a Mass that represents the mind of Father X, I want a Mass that represents the mind of the Church. Usually when a priest chooses to omit, or alter a part of the Mass, he does this consistently and this more often than not is done because he, personally, has an issue with something. Liturgy is a language that expresses theological meaning, change the language used and you alter the meaning. The priest is a servant of the Liturgy, it is not his property (nor is it the property of the congregation), therefore neither he (nor the community) have any right to alter it.

There are enough options already in the Roman missal (choice of 3 Penitential Acts, choice of 4 Eucharistic Prayers etc) why the need to make unauthorised changes?

There is also the issue that it is the right of the Faithful to have the liturgy carried out according to the norms and rubrics as laid down by the Church. What is so wrong on the faithful wanting their rights within the Church being upheld?

Yes priests need our prayers, you have a challenging job with huge responsibility (you don’t get much more responsibility on this planet than the pastoral care of souls) and yes like all of us, priests make mistakes. But whereas making an unintentional mistake is one thing, deliberately choosing to alter the liturgy is not a mistake, it is an intentional act. Redemptionis Saramentum makes it very clear that it is a duty incumbent on all of us (laity included) do do all in our power to stop liturgical abuses, without favouritism.
I don’t disagree with any of this. My contention, and what I would encourage those who post here to think about, is that we often times read things like this, “I went to Mass today and Father did such and such.” Or, “Father said such and such.” Fine. That might be true. But, it might not be either. My point is that we never hear the other side of the story. We don’t get to hear Father’s explanation. Did he make a mistake? If it’s onoing, why? Believe me, enough of my brother priests do enough quirky things liturgically to ruffle my feathers. But, they are still my brother priests. In most cases, they’ve put far more time into service to the People of God than I’ve even been alive.

To be sure, the faithful do deserve a properly celebrated liturgy. I agree with you 110%. But sometimes, what I read here and elsewhere seems to imply that most priests are renegades, just doing their own thing. I’ve not found this to be the case at all. In my experience, hideous liturgy is largely a thing of the past. Maybe I’m just fortunate in that the worst “abuse” I’ve ever seen at a liturgy has been the washing of feet of all in attendance at the Evening Mass of the Lord’s Supper. I’ve never seen, and certainly never celebrated, the proverbial clown Mass. Maybe my experience is unique, but it seems to me that this mentality died out long ago. Maybe it’s still alive and well in other parts of the country/world.

But, if I may tell a personal story here…prior to entering seminary, I largely came to hear the Lord’s call through the liturgy. I read many things in books and online. I became friends with other people who loved liturgy. I remember the first time I saw a priest wear a cassock was in college. And, I thought it was cool…this dude looks like he’s Neo in the Matrix or something. I had no idea what a cassock even was. But, it attracted me. So, I began to get more involved in my faith and to hear the Lord’s call more deeply and clearly. As a result of my newfound love, I began going to daily Mass and more frequent confession.

This was all wonderful, but it had a negative side effect. I was becoming more and more accustomed to very “traditional” liturgy. I grew quite fond of the Novus Ordo in Latin. I read blogs that desired a renewal of Catholic liturgy throughout the Church. Again, this was all well and good. But, these blogs would give underhanded comments like, “It just drives me nuts that Father Smith doesn’t wear an amice, and you can still see his clerics. The rubric is VERY clear, ‘An amice is to be worn if the alb does not cover the ordinary clothing at the neck.’” Or, "Sigh…Father Jones started Mass today by saying, ‘The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, the love of God, and the fellowship of the Holy Spirit be with you all.’ Doesn’t he know that the Third Edition of the Roman Missal changed this greeting? he’s supposed to say, “Communion!” Or, “Today is Wednesday of the Octave of Easter and Father Bill omitted the Gloria.”
 
There were others. I remember reading through Redemptionis Sacramentum and underlining every minute detail that my home parish was doing wrong, because I knew better than my pastor (who happens to have a Licentiate degree in liturgy from the Gregorian University in Rome). The end result was that I became so fixated on making sure every single minute detail of Mass was carried out exactly according to the liturgical books that I went a couple of years without ever really praying at Mass. I was too busy being the liturgical police officer. It was only when I entered seminary as a first-year know-it-all, that my rector–God bless him–put me in my place. Make no mistake about it. You could use a lot of adjectives to describe this man, I’ll call him Fr. Steve (not his real name), but “liberal” was most certainly NOT among them. However, he had a rule that he enforced absolutely, and that was that no one–be they priest, seminarian, or otherwise–was allowed to discuss any liturgy until it was over for an hour, and by that time, people had usually forgotten about whatever burr was under their saddle. And, on Sunday, since that was the Lord’s Day, a day of celebration and rejoicing, he forbade us from discussing the Mass because inevitably, the conversation always went down this road as it often does with well-meaning seminarians.

At the time, I thought he was being absurd, naïve, whatever you want to call it. Looking back now with the eyes of a priest under the same scrutiny, I see his wisdom in such a policy. And, rest assured, our liturgies were very good. Were they prefect? No. Because nothing this side of heaven ever is. But, our rector took following the Church’s liturgy quite seriously and with the same vigor that he forbade us from talking about it, demanded that all priests on staff “say the black and do the red.”

Sorry…that was much more long-winded than I intended. My point is that the faithful ARE entitled to a well-celebrated liturgy. And, to be sure, if there is a grave abuse–and I’m talking things like validity, having Sr. Janice participate in the Eucharistic Prayer, having a lay “reflection” in lieu of the homily, etc–then by all means, report such to the bishop post-haste. But, my experience tells me these practices are, thankfully, things of the past. My encouragement to the lay faithful is to let the more minor things go. Focus on your own prayerfulness. Trust the seminary formation process to teach priests how to celebrate Mass.
 
And, to be sure, if there is a grave abuse–and I’m talking things like validity, having Sr. Janice participate in the Eucharistic Prayer, having a lay “reflection” in lieu of the homily, etc–then by all means, report such to the bishop post-haste. But, my experience tells me these practices are, thankfully, things of the past.
Thank you for your detailed reply Father. If only these things were indeed things of the past.

And I do agree, in the first instance any issue of liturgical abuse should be address directly with the priest himself. If the priest made a mistake then fair enough, we are all human, we all make mistakes, and priests (like anyone else) deserves to be cut some slack. But if liturgical abuses tend to occur consistently, and the priest either ignores of dismisses concerns, then it is perfectly reasonable to write to the bishop.
 
They appear, at least to me, to want to be much more holy than the rest of us in line.
If no one has said it already, this is absolutely not true. If anyone feels this way (and I don’t believe anyone does) that would be sinful. It is to show more respect for Jesus Christ present in the Holy Eucharist. I believe it also shows more of an attitude of “receiving” Holy Communion rather than “taking” it and then putting Him in your own mouth.

I recently thought about receiving kneeling also, but when I read about the problem of people tripping over legs and also when I considered the possibility of causing a certain scandal if people saw me kneeling and then thought in their own minds just what you have said (that I want to appear to be more holy than others) I decided against it. When we have communion rails again! (not that I think there’s much hope that will ever again become a widespread practice). :gopray2:

My :twocents:
 
If no one has said it already, this is absolutely not true. If anyone feels this way (and I don’t believe anyone does) that would be sinful. It is to show more respect for Jesus Christ present in the Holy Eucharist. I believe it also shows more of an attitude of “receiving” Holy Communion rather than “taking” it and then putting Him in your own mouth.

I recently thought about receiving kneeling also, but when I read about the problem of people tripping over legs and also when I considered the possibility of causing a certain scandal if people saw me kneeling and then thought in their own minds just what you have said (that I want to appear to be more holy than others) I decided against it. When we have communion rails again! (not that I think there’s much hope that will ever again become a widespread practice).

My
That’s not an objective truth. That’s your opinion – one you are entitled to practice.
 
We have an old priest who says one of the weekend masses. He told people that they could not receive communion kneeling down, that it is not written anywhere that this is allowed. All it does is mess up the communion line and causes the person behind you to trip over your feet. He also said that receiving on the tongue was disgusting and unsanitary because he invariably got saliva all over his fingers and then had to dig in for another host. The saliva ends up on the next person’s host. He says it also increases the chance of dropping the host. (I haven’t noticed any difference. I’ve seen him drop hosts several times for people who receive in the hand, too.) He says that there is no reason to receive communion on the tongue.

His last words in mass were that if you couldn’t hear what he had to say, you might as well have stayed in bed.

I know that Jimmy Aikins has said that a person can kneel for communion. He said it was in the 2010 GIRM, but I can’t find it anywhere. Can anyone recommend a source?
This priest is correct. The custom of our Church is to receive communion standing. It is true, when people take communion on the tongue that there is cross contamination of saliva.
 
This priest is correct. The custom of our Church is to receive communion standing. ** It is true, when people take communion on the tongue that there is cross contamination of saliva**.
If Communion on the tongue is done correctly - and it is very easy to do it correctly - there will be NO cross contamination whatever. I learned how to give Communion on the tongue when I was trained to be an EMHC. I know what I am talking about.

Yes, it is the custom, for some years now - because of communion rails having been torn out of old churches and omitted from new ones - to stand for Communion. However, instructions from the Vatican are that if people feel the need to kneel, they are entitled to do so.
 
This priest is correct. The custom of our Church is to receive communion standing. It is true, when people take communion on the tongue that there is cross contamination of saliva.
The saliva would be the cleaner of the two considering what is on people’s hands…
 
This priest is correct. The custom of our Church is to receive communion standing. It is true, when people take communion on the tongue that there is cross contamination of saliva.
Using that logic, then we should never receive the blood of Christ, because we are drinking after each other. When I lived in St. Louis 25 years ago, someone tested the communion chalice to see what kind of germs were in it after it had been wiped dry. They found strep, mono, herpes, the common cold, and flu viruses.
 
Using that logic, then we should never receive the blood of Christ, because we are drinking after each other. When I lived in St. Louis 25 years ago, someone tested the communion chalice to see what kind of germs were in it after it had been wiped dry. They found strep, mono, herpes, the common cold, and flu viruses.
I receive the Holy Eucharist on the tongue.

I NEVER take the Precious Blood from the chalice since the Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ; and that would be redundant.

…and for the reasons above.

I’m pretty sure that the laity receiving the Precious Blood is a relatively new practice. I think there was a reason this was not done in the past.
 
Sorry, no, not if it’s done correctly.
You are right. I wish more instruction was given to the laity as to how to do it correctly!

Someone above said that they didn’t have any problem, since they were ‘trained correctly as an EMHC’.
So was I. But it doesn’t stop me having difficulties with certain parishioners who don’t seem to know how to present themselves - or have decided that they’ll do it their way, regardless of any instruction.
 
You are right. I wish more instruction was given to the laity as to how to do it correctly!

Someone above said that they didn’t have any problem, since they were ‘trained correctly as an EMHC’.
So was I. But it doesn’t stop me having difficulties with certain parishioners who don’t seem to know how to present themselves - or have decided that they’ll do it their way, regardless of any instruction.
Buc Fan 33, who is a priest, kindly shared his catalog of errors with us (#87 on this thread):
40.png
buc_fan33:
 
You are right. I wish more instruction was given to the laity as to how to do it correctly!

Someone above said that they didn’t have any problem, since they were ‘trained correctly as an EMHC’.
So was I. But it doesn’t stop me having difficulties with certain parishioners who don’t seem to know how to present themselves - or have decided that they’ll do it their way, regardless of any instruction.
40.png
buc_fan33:
 
You are right. I wish more instruction was given to the laity as to how to do it correctly!

Someone above said that they didn’t have any problem, since they were ‘trained correctly as an EMHC’.
So was I. But it doesn’t stop me having difficulties with certain parishioners who don’t seem to know how to present themselves - or have decided that they’ll do it their way, regardless of any instruction.
**BucFan 33, **who is a priest, kindly shared his catalog of errors with us (#87 on this thread):
… I beg you, if you are going to receive on the tongue, do so properly. Those who also distribute Holy Communion will know what I mean when I talk about the “moving target,” the “biters,” and the “coin-slotters.” The Church allows us to receive ON THE TONGUE. That means actually sticking your tongue out and giving Father, or whomever, a target, a landing zone if you will. The Church does not allow us to receive in our teeth. We shouldn’t bite at the host. It is not uncommon for someone to simply open his/her mouth and not stick his/her tongue out. In these instances, yes, we do need to stick our fingers in your mouth to get the host in there. Sometimes, people barely open their lips. These individuals are what I affectionately call the “coin-slotters,” because they give you a gap about as wide as the slot for a quarter on a vending machine. Some people move their head, tracking the host, as you go to place it on their tongue. Some people come forward with their hands extended and their mouth open, and I don’t know how they wish to receive.

I say these to be somewhat comical. But, it is true. In my experience, many people prefer to receive on the tongue. Great. More power to them. But, of those who choose to receive in this manner, it’s also my experience that the vast majority do it incorrectly.QUOTE]
 
You are right. I wish more instruction was given to the laity as to how to do it correctly!

Someone above said that they didn’t have any problem, since they were ‘trained correctly as an EMHC’.
So was I. But it doesn’t stop me having difficulties with certain parishioners who don’t seem to know how to present themselves - or have decided that they’ll do it their way, regardless of any instruction.
**BucFan 33, **who is a priest, kindly shared his catalog of errors with us: communicants whom he classifies as the “biters,” the “coin-slotters,” and the “moving target”. Take a look. It’s #87 on this thread.
 
I receive the Holy Eucharist on the tongue.

I NEVER take the Precious Blood from the chalice since the Eucharist is the Body, Blood, Soul, and Divinity of Christ; and that would be redundant.

…and for the reasons above.

I’m pretty sure that the laity receiving the Precious Blood is a relatively new practice. I think there was a reason this was not done in the past.
The Church teaches that receiving under both species, while not necessary, is a “fuller sign of the Eucharistic banquet.” The laity receiving the Precious Blood is a return to the ancient practice of the Church. It was not until around the eleventh century that the chalice was not offered to the laity. The laity of the Eastern Churches, at least of the Constantinopolitan rite, have always received under both species.
 
You are right. I wish more instruction was given to the laity as to how to do it correctly!

Someone above said that they didn’t have any problem, since they were ‘trained correctly as an EMHC’.
So was I. But it doesn’t stop me having difficulties with certain parishioners who don’t seem to know how to present themselves - or have decided that they’ll do it their way, regardless of any instruction.
I think a very big issue here is the instruction that is given to children making their first Holy Communion. How are they taught to receive? I suspect that most parishes universally teach the children how to receive Communion in the hand, but that few parishes actually teach them how to receive Communion on the tongue. If they are not taught how to receive on the tongue, then when the child (later in life) decides that they are going to start receiving on the tongue how can he be blamed for receiving clumsily on the tongue.

Personally I believe that to teach the children how to receive in the hand, but not on the tongue is very bad catechesis, (possibly even catechesis with an agenda). Why are children not taught this? Is it viewed (incorrectly) that receiving on the tongue is not really an appropriate way for children to receive?
 
Personally I believe that to teach the children how to receive in the hand, but not on the tongue is very bad catechesis, (possibly even catechesis with an agenda). Why are children not taught this? Is it viewed (incorrectly) that receiving on the tongue is not really an appropriate way for children to receive?
Perhaps it’s just that they’re being taught the way that is primarily used in their parishes, and there is no grand conspiracy.
 
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