Priest says there's no Santa during Epiphany Mass!

[Light_Seeker]

I’m a convert from nothing. My mother was Protestant (now Catholic), my father is agnostic (baptized Catholic but cultural). However, it was my nonreligious father who tried to make sure Jesus got more credit than Santa on Christmas.

I too have parents who are agnostic - even atheistic viewpoints. However, they took me & my siblings to Church, and made sure we understood about the religious significance of holidays.

I remember asking my father, when I was a teen, why he did this if he didn’t believe? He replied that his was a personal viewpoint, but he acknowledges it may be wrong. And if he’s wrong, he doesn’t want his children to spend an eternity in hell because of the what he believes, and the formation of his offspring based on those personal beliefs.

But someone enlighten me on what a big, fluffy bunny has to do with Jesus being raised from the dead?

Easter eggs I understand … after the Lent fast, there were overabundance’s of eggs. But bunnys

 

[juliasmith]

And let me say, my opinion is just that, my opinion. Raise your kids as you see fit.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

You know how the Jesus said not to put new wine in old wineskins?

That’s the basis of my philosophy on using secular celebrations in conjunction with Catholic liturgical celebrations. That’s why we have an All Saints Day party instead of Halloween trick or treating. That’s why we don’t promote Santa Claus or the Easter bunny. Our kids get treats, but they know we provide the treats in honor of God’s generosity towards us. And that is your choice. Pelase don’t expect the rest of us to do it.

My kids love to read fairy tales, Tolkien, fantasy novels, and magic books. But, we don’t confuse the two. And neither do Santa believers.

The kids and I were studying the Baltimore Catechism the other day on lying. It said that even white lies were sins. And for the fourth time, CAF apologists have said it is not. That is a very simplistic veiwpoint, in my opinion, that lies are lies are lies.

It’s not a mortal sin, but a lie is a lie…I don’t think a priest has the obligation to perpetuate a lie, esp when his point was that the story of Santa Claus detracts from the story of the Epiphany.

I don’t buy that. A lie is not a fable, is not a myth. If you choose not to believe CAF apologists, that is certainly your right. But don’t spoil it for our kids, OK?

The priest does not have to perpetuate a lie. There is simply enough topic at this time of the year where he can avoid it. He could have stuck with the 3 Kings/ Wisemen, with Toddler Jesus, wicked Herod, and the rest. Santa never had to be mentioned. What he did was hurtful, and usurped parents’ right to raise children as chosen.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

I personally don’t believe the priest should have said this in Mass. I’m surprised kids weren’t crying. I only have two children and both were raised on the myths of Santa…, Easter Bunny…etc… It was wonderful to see the magic in their eyes and spirit on Christmas morning.

It is heart breaking for both child and parent when we have to tell them the truth. I personally did not find it heartbreaking. I just felt it was better in their own time. The Order of St. Nicholas usually makes up for any disappointment. And to know an “adult” secret? It can definitely be worth it. The relationship changes, but it also deepens. I just ask why do we continue to do this? because for most of us, it is fun, and a fond memory. Most of us go into debt for Christmas to keep factories in China humming? Maybe you do. I certainly do my best not to! Are we doing this for ourselves? Yes, and for our children. Lighten up!Are we damaging our kids trust and faith? NO, no, a thousand times NO!

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

I don’t have any problems doing the Santa thing with my kids. Most of the customs like wrapped gift giving, coming down the chimney, appearing in the middle of the night, and naughty & nice lists are all based on customs & traditions celebrating the feast of Saint Nicholas.

And what is more Christian than giving gifts? We have morphed this in our family, once the kids mature & realize Santa isn’t real, into the love of charity. For example, our parish has an ‘Adopt a Family’ for Christmas … We anonymously provide gifts for poor families with children that have used the parish’s other social services - so the children may have a few gifts under the tree. This year all of my kids, even the Santa believers, helped pick out some new bikes & clothes & wrap them & deliver to the Church for our adopted family. Its up to that family if they want to say the presents are from Santa, or the Church, or from donors. Its brought many smiles into our family, we know its appreciated, and also has taught our children valuable lessons. And our family does this through our Order of St. Nicholas. Besides giving us an excuse to ring doorbells and get up in the early morning while it is still dark.

Of course we never confuse Santa & gift giving with the real meaning of Christmas! We don’t either. And there has been no trauma out of any of the kids, including my schizophrenic son when he was growing up, about “finding” the truth. I’m sorry some parents dont’ handle this as well as others.

But what really ticks me is the Easter bunny thing. Hiding chocolate & finding Easter eggs, then watching kids go into a sugar induced crazy - has no correlation to the most religious event we have. 1.) Switch to a lamb. 2.) There are TONS of little toys, including those Spring perennials, soap bubbles and sidewalk chalk. 3.) The hidden Easter eggs have to do with finding Jesus. And it’s a lot of fun to hunt treasure!

 

[PaulinVA]

Wow, this thread has exploded since I looked at it last!

My wife and I do not do the Santa thing because Santa is antithetical to the Christian faith.

Santa keeps a list, and checks it twice, to find out who is naughty and nice. Nice children get presents, naughty children get coal. It’s an invention of the Victorians to keep children in line.

Christ, on the other, treats all of us equally. All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God. We do not deserve salvation, but it is freely given to us.

To present both of these ideas to children in the same context is incredibly confusing. On the one hand, we have Santa keeping score, and on the other hand we have Christ (and us as parents) giving our love freely.

I understand those of you who feel that Santa is a nice cozy little fable to delight little kids, but he is really an invention to tell children to be good to get presents.

I am swinging toward supporting the priest to disabuse people from thinking Santa is neutral or person preference.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Well, then you better go argue it with AAA, particularly Michelle. She says belief in Santa is not a lie, and fine to perpetuate.

 

[Jennifer_J]

Well, then you better go argue it with AAA, particularly Michelle. She says belief in Santa is not a lie, and fine to perpetuate.

With all due respect to you, Chicago (I usually agree with you), but Michelle is not a formal Church authority–this is her opinion and I’ve disagreed with her before (nursing in Mass). And yes, I know that the Magisterium hasn’t spoken formally on this matter, it’s prudential. I feel it’s lying, so I’d think for me, it would be sinful to perpetuate that lie at all costs. I’d feel guilty, justified or not. I know you think I’m crazy that’s okay. My upbringing (totally secular) has led me to feel this way. I know cradle Catholics can’t understand. I wish secular society hadn’t stolen St Nicholas from us, but alas, that’s the case…

 

[PaulinVA]

Well, then you better go argue it with AAA, particularly Michelle. She says belief in Santa is not a lie, and fine to perpetuate.

“Here, honey, here’s a present from Santa” is an outright lie.

Who would have thought that this would have been so controversial?

 

[SMHW]

I don’t have any problems doing the Santa thing with my kids. Most of the customs like wrapped gift giving, coming down the chimney, appearing in the middle of the night, and naughty & nice lists are all based on customs & traditions celebrating the feast of Saint Nicholas.

I never understand why there is such a disconnect between “Santa Claus” and St. Nicholas in Catholic families.

I always made a point of telling my children that “Santa Claus” was how you said “St. Nicholas” in another language just like Maria, Marie, and Mary are really the same name. Or how the names Peter and Pedro both mean “rock”. I just told them that stores, books, magazines, and television tend to get the hat wrong and forget the bishop’s crosier. It’s the media you have to view cautiously, not belief in Santa Claus.

And what is more Christian than giving gifts? We have morphed this in our family, once the kids mature & realize Santa isn’t real, into the love of charity. For example, our parish has an ‘Adopt a Family’ for Christmas … We anonymously provide gifts for poor families with children that have used the parish’s other social services - so the children may have a few gifts under the tree.

See, I’ve always thought that the emphasis on Santa was a way to teach our children that we do believe that saints are alive and working in our lives.

As the Church Militant, it is up to us to be the physical presence of the Communion of Saints in the world. But that doesn’t mean that St. Nicholas isn’t playing an important and active role.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

With all due respect to you, Chicago (I usually agree with you), but Michelle is not a formal Church authority–this is her opinion and I’ve disagreed with her before (nursing in Mass). And yes, I know that the Magisterium hasn’t spoken formally on this matter, it’s prudential. I feel it’s lying, so I’d think for me, it would be sinful to perpetuate that lie at all costs. And Jennifer, I’m OK with that, as long as you don’t interfere with my Santa-raising ways over here. And I do not think you are crazy by any stretch of the imagination. You are acting in good conscience, you are sincere, and I applaud that. :clapping: You also don’t tell people their children should be educated in one way or another. I really think this is a “live and let live” thing. Most of us agreed at one point to that live-and-let-live policy. It’s others who have more or less said they prefer to destroy things for the rest of us who choose to do Santa. It’s not up to them. And in my opinion (I’m going to have invent an “in my opinion” emoticon) I don’t find it a lie, and I’m going to continue it until Daisy is ready for the Order of St. Nicholas, and we can all go St. Nicking all December.

 

[juicekman]

I really do not understand the whole lying to your child thing. It all ends up the same. They find out that their parents are liars and some children get truly heart broken. Why would a good Catholic parent want to lie to their children? What good does it do? Children young enough to believe in Santa Claus are ALREADY filled with so much joy from the Christmas season. Why add a lie on top of it???

 

[LaLucia]

When my grand-daughter was a little girl I told her that Santa was a spirit in our hearts. That he gave us the spirit of giving gifts to eachother. She believed in Santa and her parents wanted her to believe in Santa.

Santa is just a fun thing for kids only… I think all kids know that it is our parents who buy our gifts. We kids didn’t care who bought us the gifts.

I have a cute story. A 5yr old little boy was spending the night with with father and his new wife who already had kids.

They bought lots of presents for their kids and one gift for that little boy. He started to cry because he was sad that Santa didn’t give him as many presents as his half brother.

I went up to him and said, “Santa left your Christmas presents at your house… he didn’t know that you were spending the night at your dad’s house… here is a large bag so you can go home and bring your presents back here to the house”.
He thought about it and just knew that I was making a lot of sense. He cheered up and his dad took him to his house and he returned with the large bag filled with gifts and a super large box that said, “American Idol” singing equipment.

Yes, Virginia, there is a Santa Clause.

Santa Clause was born on earth and is real of his memory and history. There is also the fun fantasy story of Santa Clause.

The tooth fairy is fun too. The Easter bunny. Halloween is real there is the darkness that people have created in their minds during Halloween.

Priests have no business talking about Santa Clause. Christmas in church is about Jesus being born.

Parents work really hard in trying to buy the right gifts for their kids and then the priest ruinned all that work for nothing. A lot of kids fantases sp were gone in a New York minute.

When I was a little girl I believed that animals could talk like people. Well… it wasn’t until years later that I finally heard with my own ears a cat say to me…" I love you." The cat’s owner had trained the cat to say that. It was so much fun to hear that cat say that to me. It cheered my heart.

 

[SMHW]

“Here, honey, here’s a present from Santa” is an outright lie.

Who would have thought that this would have been so controversial?

Just curious.

If the grandparents send a check and the parents use that to choose and buy presents and say, “Here, honey, this is from Grandma, Grandpa, Uncle Jerry, and Aunt Kate,” is that a lie?

I’m guessing some people will say, “yes,” and others will say, “no.” I can accept either opinion but I will say that it is not so different than parents using the resources given to them by God to give presents on behalf of St. Nicholas/Santa Claus.

 

[yellowbird]

Just curious.

If the grandparents send a check and the parents use that to choose and buy presents and say, “Here, honey, this is from Grandma, Grandpa, Uncle Jerry, and Aunt Kate,” is that a lie?

.

Not a lie. We do this all the time in our family.

 

[Light_Seeker]

I really do not understand the whole lying to your child thing. It all ends up the same. They find out that their parents are liars and some children get truly heart broken. Why would a good Catholic parent want to lie to their children? What good does it do? Children young enough to believe in Santa Claus are ALREADY filled with so much joy from the Christmas season. Why add a lie on top of it???

Obvious you don’t have children.

When your 3 year old walks into your bedroom in the middle of the night and asks “What is Daddy doing to Mommy? Stop hurting her!”, is that the time for the birds & bees talk? Of course not, they’re too young to understand. So you say we’re playing, & tickling.

Last week my wife’s purse was stolen at the grocers. In it was the spare set of keys for the house & cars, which we were talking about the risk & my little one overheard. She asked “Is that bad guy gonna break into our house?”. Of course there’s that possibility. Told her no, we’re safe, and the locks will be changed in the morning. Why should I tell her that we indeed are not safe & give her a sleepless night worrying? We of course had a much different conversation with our 18 year old daughter.

Perpetuating the fable of Santa is not lying to your child, this is make believe fantasy. Every day my daughter comes home from school, plays in her room that she’s the teacher, has all her stuffed animals around her while she reads them a book, then asks them questions. Make believe. She fully understands the differences between fantasy and lying.

As I and others have previously posted, the Santa fable is not only a wonderful delight for the imaginations of the children, but is used as a solid teaching basis. For the true meaning of Christmas. For what our Lord gave us. For giving is much better than receiving. For the love & goodness of charity.

Without these lessons and priorities, perhaps children will opinionize that their parents are lying to them. But most figure it out long before their parents tell them. This Christmas, our daughter realized that Santa uses the same wrapping paper that we used for charity gifts. Our teenager can’t wait to help wrap up Santa’s presents on Christmas eve - she understands the love, true meaning, & family closeness wrapped around this simple holiday fable.

Furthermore, as I’ve had to post before, I did not lie to my daughter, please re-read my original post. She asked if Santa was made by Coca Cola, I told her that he wasn’t, Father is mistaken. This is the truth.

 

[withwind]

I believe that the reason the priest talking about Santa topic is that he has seen many people so focusing on the material gifts and that they have little focus on the real Gift of this Christmas season. I think that the priest can say something else to avoid mentioning of “No Santa”, but children nowadays are very spoiled!

My brother’s family does not allow his children open their gifts until New Year - Their whole focus was on Baby Jesus throughout Christmas.

 

[Alexandra]

I agree 100% with the OP. It was not the priests place to tell the children there was no Santa. That is something that should be the parents choice to decide when their child is ready.

Having said that, we chose to tell our children from the beginning that there is this beautiful fable about a man named Santa Claus. He isn’t real but people like to pretend that he is. Also telling them that they are NEVER to tell their friends that there is no Santa. That that is something their parents will do. In the end I think my children had fun pretending he was real, especially when you have the country pretending along with you!

 

[Light_Seeker]

I agree 100% with the OP. It was not the priests place to tell the children there was no Santa. That is something that should be the parents choice to decide when their child is ready.

And conversely, I totally respect & am grateful for that!

Almost every week my kids ask if they can bring a friend to Mass. We *always *respond that it’s up to their parents. One parent does not want their child attending a Catholic Mass. Although I bite my tongue, this is the parents wish that we abide by.

 

[juicekman]

Obvious you don’t have children.

When your 3 year old walks into your bedroom in the middle of the night and asks “What is Daddy doing to Mommy? Stop hurting her!”, is that the time for the birds & bees talk? Of course not, they’re too young to understand. So you say we’re playing, & tickling.

Last week my wife’s purse was stolen at the grocers. In it was the spare set of keys for the house & cars, which we were talking about the risk & my little one overheard. She asked “Is that bad guy gonna break into our house?”. Of course there’s that possibility. Told her no, we’re safe, and the locks will be changed in the morning. Why should I tell her that we indeed are not safe & give her a sleepless night worrying? We of course had a much different conversation with our 18 year old daughter.

Perpetuating the fable of Santa is not lying to your child, this is make believe fantasy. Every day my daughter comes home from school, plays in her room that she’s the teacher, has all her stuffed animals around her while she reads them a book, then asks them questions. Make believe. She fully understands the differences between fantasy and lying.

As I and others have previously posted, the Santa fable is not only a wonderful delight for the imaginations of the children, but is used as a solid teaching basis. For the true meaning of Christmas. For what our Lord gave us. For giving is much better than receiving. For the love & goodness of charity.

Without these lessons and priorities, perhaps children will opinionize that their parents are lying to them. But most figure it out long before their parents tell them. This Christmas, our daughter realized that Santa uses the same wrapping paper that we used for charity gifts. Our teenager can’t wait to help wrap up Santa’s presents on Christmas eve - she understands the love, true meaning, & family closeness wrapped around this simple holiday fable.

Furthermore, as I’ve had to post before, I did not lie to my daughter, please re-read my original post. She asked if Santa was made by Coca Cola, I told her that he wasn’t, Father is mistaken. This is the truth.