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DWPC
Guest
Its utterly indefensible; was then and is now.
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bones_IV
Guest
The Vatican document “Concerning the Criteria for the Discernment of Vocations with Regard to Persons with Homosexual Tendencies in View of their Admission to the Seminary and to Holy Orders” says that “the candidate to the ordained ministry, therefore, must reach affective maturity. Such maturity will allow him to relate correctly to both men and women, developing in him a true sense of spiritual fatherhood towards the Church community that will be entrusted to him” (#1).We need to get the homosexuals out of the priesthood.
Sorry to say it so bluntly, but that’s the problem. You had one middle aged repressed homosexual, and one homosexual just going through puberty and confused.
Take the middle aged homo out of the equation and there’s no problem there.
This ISN’T pedophilia, it’s Ephebophilia (sex with post-pubescent adolescents), and YES homsexual men are a much higher risk (percentage wise) to be Ephebophiles.
Get homosexuals out of the priesthood and the problems drop significantly. Almost all the cases are Ephebophilia cases, and men on boys, that’s a homosexual problem.
In section 3 it teaches: “The call to orders is the personal responsibility of the bishop or the major superior. Bearing in mind the opinion of those to whom he has entrusted the responsibility of formation, the bishop or major superior, before admitting the candidate to ordination, must arrive at a morally certain judgment on his qualities. IN THE CASE OF A SERIOUS DOUBT IN THIS REGARD, HE MUST NOT ADMIT HIM TO ORDINATION.”
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corvidae
Guest
blluuugh.Wow, it sounds like these men had a LOVING RELATIONSHIP as GOD intended. It’s SOCIETY and THE CATHOLIC HIERARCHY that interfered with their NATURAL LOVE for one another. It excites me just to think of those loving massages and physical embraces. The priest was LOVING to expose young Foley to the beauty of the Homosexual Embrace
You are in my prayers total top.
you are in my prayers.
A lone Raven
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KathleenElsie
Guest
IMHO if there is any doubt there should be no ordination.:banghead:The Vatican document “Concerning the Criteria for the Discernment of Vocations with Regard to Persons with Homosexual Tendencies in View of their Admission to the Seminary and to Holy Orders” says that “the candidate to the ordained ministry, therefore, must reach affective maturity. Such maturity will allow him to relate correctly to both men and women, developing in him a true sense of spiritual fatherhood towards the Church community that will be entrusted to him” (#1).
In section 3 it teaches: “The call to orders is the personal responsibility of the bishop or the major superior. Bearing in mind the opinion of those to whom he has entrusted the responsibility of formation, the bishop or major superior, before admitting the candidate to ordination, must arrive at a morally certain judgment on his qualities. IN THE CASE OF A SERIOUS DOUBT IN THIS REGARD, HE MUST NOT ADMIT HIM TO ORDINATION.”
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bones_IV
Guest
Yes.IMHO if there is any doubt there should be no ordination.:banghead:
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contemplative
Guest
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manualman
Guest
Guys, the John Jay report pretty clearly shows that the bulk of the predator priests were ordained before the end of the Vatican II council.
Rather silly to blame VII in light of the facts. Quite the opposite, the facts tend to imply that there were some MAJOR problems aready present in the church prior to VII and that calling a council was a genuine prompt of the Holy Spirit (as opposed to the Masonic conspiracy hypothesized by some) for reform.
VII isn’t the problem. The problem is the infiltrators already present from prior to VII that immediately hijacked the message upon completion of the council. The complete VII documents are readily available. Buy one and have some good bedtime reading!
Rather silly to blame VII in light of the facts. Quite the opposite, the facts tend to imply that there were some MAJOR problems aready present in the church prior to VII and that calling a council was a genuine prompt of the Holy Spirit (as opposed to the Masonic conspiracy hypothesized by some) for reform.
VII isn’t the problem. The problem is the infiltrators already present from prior to VII that immediately hijacked the message upon completion of the council. The complete VII documents are readily available. Buy one and have some good bedtime reading!
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Lorarose
Guest
“If this is implying Vatican II is at fault, I have to draw the line there. I can’t connect the decisions of Vatican II with a loss of priestly penitential accountabilty (assuming such exists), and then extend that to the rise in sex scandal. I will hold priests and local bishops accountable where appropriate but I will NOT blame an ecumenical council or a pope. I will die before I do that.”
Foley’s situation would have occurred prior to VII.
Certainly the guilty priest would have been ordained long before VII.
Many of the allegations involve priests ordained prior to VII.
This does not appear to be a problem with VII at all.
Foley’s situation would have occurred prior to VII.
Certainly the guilty priest would have been ordained long before VII.
Many of the allegations involve priests ordained prior to VII.
This does not appear to be a problem with VII at all.
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BrownR
Guest
The problem is that I don’t see any way to adequately identify or remove the homosexual priests. If they haven’t been accused, they have absolutely no reason to expose themselves as homosexuals. In reality, they probably don’t even view themselves as one. We need some harsh measures being dealt out to these guys and some examples being made to act as proper deterrents for this type of behavior. It’s ridiculous how many ex-Catholics I’ve spoken with or read about who cite this particular crisis within the Church as the reason they have lost faith or no longer continue to go to mass. I read the priest/Foley story this morning and found myself daydreaming about my future children in a possible Catholic private school and how I would best broach the subject with him/her and encourage them to never let themselves be alone with a priest. “If anything ever makes you feel uncomfortable or a priest touches you in a certain way, you come tell daddy, o.k.?” How sad is that? I haven’t even had kids yet and I’m already planning for potential priestly predators out there.
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BrownR
Guest
On another thought, does anyone know if this is a systemic problem world-wide within the Church or primarily in the U.S.? Has the Church always had this problem throughout history I wonder, and it’s only now becoming evident in today’s society as a result of our litigiousness? It makes me wonder. Maybe celibacy in the priesthood is not everything it’s cracked up to be.
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YinYangMom
Guest
Vatican II has nothing to do with this article or this thread.
What is most striking to me is the priest’s attitude TODAY that ‘perhaps’ some of the actions could have affected Foley…that
the Foley relationship was an “aberration” and bygones should be bygones.
There is no remorse or regret in this interview. There is no indication this priest gets what he did was very, very wrong.
If the priest is correct and it wasn an aberration then the media should not be getting many other people coming out of the woodworks, but who knows anymore.
What troubles me is I doubt we’ll be able to follow up on what happens to this priest now…from Rome’s perspective. I just don’t get how or why Rome is so slow to move on these priests with some very serious consequences.
What is most striking to me is the priest’s attitude TODAY that ‘perhaps’ some of the actions could have affected Foley…that
the Foley relationship was an “aberration” and bygones should be bygones.
There is no remorse or regret in this interview. There is no indication this priest gets what he did was very, very wrong.
If the priest is correct and it wasn an aberration then the media should not be getting many other people coming out of the woodworks, but who knows anymore.
What troubles me is I doubt we’ll be able to follow up on what happens to this priest now…from Rome’s perspective. I just don’t get how or why Rome is so slow to move on these priests with some very serious consequences.
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YinYangMom
Guest
Celibacy is not the problem.On another thought, does anyone know if this is a systemic problem world-wide within the Church or primarily in the U.S.? Has the Church always had this problem throughout history I wonder, and it’s only now becoming evident in today’s society as a result of our litigiousness? It makes me wonder. Maybe celibacy in the priesthood is not everything it’s cracked up to be.
Human weakness is.
Even married priests can end up having extra-marital affairs.
Sins of the flesh are personal and they affect everyone.
Single adults are expected to live celibate lives.
The Church is not asking the impossible from Her priests.
Bottom line, they are married to the Church and thus are not free to marry another.
B
BrownR
Guest
This was taken from the article on CNN’s site:
I found it to be a funny choice of wording. He’s never been “accused” which doesn’t mean he was never guilty of the crime. I would have rather heard him say he was never guilty of sexual misconduct other than this incident with Foley… Makes you wonder.“The Herald-Tribune report quoted Mercieca as saying the encounter was an aberration and that he has never been accused of sexual misconduct during his decades in the priesthood.”
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BrownR
Guest
The reality is that neither you or I know how much of a correlation that celibacy in the priesthood has with this issue. Rome shoots down practically any empirical study that has ever been attempted in the efforts to elucidate the sexuality of the priesthood. Bottom line, I think anyone would agree that a celibate minister has more temptation for sexual misconduct vis-a-vis a married minister who is free to satisfy his physical desires within the confines of marriage.Celibacy is not the problem.
Human weakness is.
Even married priests can end up having extra-marital affairs.
Sins of the flesh are personal and they affect everyone.
Single adults are expected to live celibate lives.
The Church is not asking the impossible from Her priests.
Bottom line, they are married to the Church and thus are not free to marry another.
What if a study could prove that a married priest was 20% less devoted to his priestly duties, but it had a 80% reduction in sexual molestation cases with young people? You don’t think that would be worth the Church reconsidering it’s stance on marriage within the priesthood?
Bottom line, I don’t have a problem accepting Rome’s teaching on the issue, but I’m not an idiot, and I suspect that celibacy certainly has a certain correlation with the sexual child abuses. Does that mean that the small percentage of priests cannot overcome or that Rome can’t deal with them effectively? Of course not. There are also the positive aspects of celibacy within the priesthood that I haven’t mentioned, but I wish the Church would allow access to counseling documents or other materials so that a proper study could be conducted.
I don’t have a problem accepting Rome’s teaching, but I certainly have my own suspicions.
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Saint_Michael
Guest
Read Goodbye Good Men and it’s apparent that some of the powers that be haven’t gottent the memo. But in all honesty, I have come to terms with this scandal because it’s obvious to me that it’s a homosexual problem, not a pedophilia problem. I think something like 85% of the cases are men commiting crimes on adolescent boys, and while it’s horrible, I do think it goes back to the fact that the homosexual priest is already suffering from sexual deviancy and 14-17 year old boys are easy to manipulate and kee quiet.The Vatican document “Concerning the Criteria for the Discernment of Vocations with Regard to Persons with Homosexual Tendencies in View of their Admission to the Seminary and to Holy Orders” says that “the candidate to the ordained ministry, therefore, must reach affective maturity. Such maturity will allow him to relate correctly to both men and women, developing in him a true sense of spiritual fatherhood towards the Church community that will be entrusted to him” (#1).
In section 3 it teaches: “The call to orders is the personal responsibility of the bishop or the major superior. Bearing in mind the opinion of those to whom he has entrusted the responsibility of formation, the bishop or major superior, before admitting the candidate to ordination, must arrive at a morally certain judgment on his qualities. IN THE CASE OF A SERIOUS DOUBT IN THIS REGARD, HE MUST NOT ADMIT HIM TO ORDINATION.”
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chrisb
Guest
I am so sick of this. I am so tired of the state of our clergy. Our Church is sick. You will know them by their fruits.
Ugh.
Ugh.
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YinYangMom
Guest
you miss the point.Bottom line, I think anyone would agree that a celibate minister has more temptation for sexual misconduct vis-a-vis a married minister who is free to satisfy his physical desires within the confines of marriage.
Celibacy has everything to do about respect for the human body and the love of Christ in each and every person.
Temptation toward sins of the flesh affect every human.
But when a human person has the proper perspective about his/her life in relation to God, they are better able to resist the temptations of the flesh -
not because sex is wrong, or because they promised not to, or because of rules, or because they are single…
but because their love for God is such that the desire to offend Him in the slightest is greater than the desire to succumb to physically satisfying sexual desires (whether through masturbation or through a spouse or any other means).
If you haven’t read Theology of the Body yet or listened to Christopher West speak on the topic, I highly recommend it. I don’t see how anyone can view sexual desires in any way other than in relation to God’s love and overall plan for mankind after that. Just having the proper perspective helps tremendously in resisting temptations of the flesh. Will it continue to be a struggle? Most certainly.
If a priest is married and has sex with his wife solely because he lusts for her or has sexual tensions built up inside him that doesn’t make the sex he has with her through marriage the sacred act it is meant to be. Allowing priests to marry in order to curb their tendencies toward boys, just shifts the object of release from the boy to a woman - and because there is a marriage involved would be having the church sanction the use of women in that manner - and it’s degrading, plain and simple.
Besides, a man’s sexual interest in young boys is not ‘ordered’ sexuality so marriage isn’t going to remedy the situation for those men anyway. They are suffering under a very real condition which needs to be addressed from the proper perspective and not masked over through marriage. Just ask any woman who found out later in life she was married to a pedophile all along, or a homosexual.
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Saint_Michael
Guest
My son is in Catholic school, I’ve already had that talk with him just in case, it’s not something you ever think about having to do, but in this world what can you do.How sad is that? I haven’t even had kids yet and I’m already planning for potential priestly predators out there.
It’s sad too because my son won’t be an altar boy either, out of the 10,000 cases of misconduct the majority seem to be against altar boys. It’s just too risky with the amount of homosexuals in the priesthood. Unfortunately my relationship with priests now is to provide me the Sacraments and nothing else, I just don’t trust them anymore at all. I mean listen to this guy in the news, it’s sickening, who are these people? How could they possibly be priests for 40 years with this skewed of a view of morality and right and wrong.
“Once maybe I touched him or so, but didn’t, it wasn’t – because it’s not something you call, I mean, rape or penetration or anything like that you know. We were just fondling,”
*“He seemed to like it, you know? So it was sort of more like a spontaneous thing,” Mercieca told WPTV, a West Palm Beach, Florida, station.
Mercieca, however, rejected the idea that he sexually abused Foley, saying, “See abuse, it’s a bad word, you know, because abuse, you abuse someone against his will. But it involved just spontaneousness, you know?” *
cnn.com/2006/POLITICS/10/19/foley.priest/index.html
This priest essentially sees nothing wrong with what he did at all. In my opinion they should allow married priests not because celibacy has anything to do with child molestation, but because it will flood the priesthood with heterosexual men, which is really needed.
What’s sad is when I see Priest on a newspaper and find out he just imbezzled money or had an affair with a married woman I find myself saying “thank God”. How pathetic is that?
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contemplative
Guest
Just look how long for the Vatican to take action on Archbishop Emmanuel Milingo of Zambia. The Vatican is slower than molasses about abuses of any kind.I just don’t get how or why Rome is so slow to move on these priests with some very serious consequences.
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