priest threatening to deny 7-year old FHC-help!

[lovesMary]

I’ve read every post in this thread. It’s a very interesting dilemma. From what the OP says, this priest is 3 years away from mandatory retirement which tells me that he is over the hill, set in his ways, and maybe even getting a little senile. Because of this fact, if I were in the shoes of the OP with this frustrating situation, I would choose to make an addition to the white dress, such as a sweater or shawl, and go along with the demands of this aged priest.

If this were a younger man, I would make an issue of this because it would be better for a younger priest not to get used to being a dictatorial tyrant with his parish. But since he is an aged priest, there is really no point in putting this stubborn old man to the test, because the stakes are too high.

Remember that the Bishop has a lot of problems. For one thing, he has to deal with a personnel shortage and he probably has what we call “warm body syndrome” which means that he is forced to accept subpar employees who have the proper credentials and still have a pulse. The last thing he needs is the headache of having to come down on an old stubborn priest over the color of a child’s dress, on top of all his other pressing problems! Think of it, many Bishops were even sweeping child molestation under the rug for years! Many bishops are still faced with the financial repucussions from far worse things than this situation, as aggravating as it sounds for the OP!

So, unfortunately in the best interests of the child I think the most selfless choice is to buy a tasteful sweater or sash to change the all white outfit into an outfit with color and humor this crotchety and controlling old man, save the Bishop another headache, and make your daughter’s day a happy memory for everyone.

 

[Claire_from_DE]

Yes, that would be interesting to see if all the parents decided that the girls would wear white. He may have to take back what he said. You might also run the risk of pride getting the better of him and turning every child away. But I don’t know him, so it probably is wrong of me to surmise something like that. I hope he wouldn’t have that kind of personality.

If he did, the bishop would know he was crazy for sure. This is such a strange thing for him to make an issue of that one suspects something else is going on here. What’s his real agenda?

The parents could tell him in writing that all the girls would be wearing white and ask if he would deny communion to them all. If he says he would, take it to the bishop. Just don’t single out one child. This shouldn’t be what she remembers about her first communion.

 

[thistle]

I think the parents of the child should consider which is more important: the child’s first Communion or putting the priest in his place. Even if the priest is wrong the child’s first Communion should take priorty over the dress colour.

 

[childofmary1143]

Dear OP,

No matter what others may say do not back down from this Priest. There is a principle involved here which I think you realize and any attempt to back down or to comply would morally weaken your stance.

I sincerely hope that the Bishop moves on this. Its too bad that you can’t bring the Press on this as it would force the Diocese to remove the Priest (which wouldn’t be a bad move).

 

[CradleCath]

Dear OP,

No matter what others may say do not back down from this Priest. There is a principle involved here which I think you realize and any attempt to back down or to comply would morally weaken your stance.

I sincerely hope that the Bishop moves on this. Its too bad that you can’t bring the Press on this as it would force the Diocese to remove the Priest (which wouldn’t be a bad move).

BRAVO!!!

 

[thistle]

Dear OP,

No matter what others may say do not back down from this Priest. There is a principle involved here which I think you realize and any attempt to back down or to comply would morally weaken your stance.

I sincerely hope that the Bishop moves on this. Its too bad that you can’t bring the Press on this as it would force the Diocese to remove the Priest (which wouldn’t be a bad move).

Sometimes the distinction between principle and pride get blurred.
Are you saying the parents should not let the child receive her first Communion for the sake of putting the priest in his place first?

 

[iamrefreshed]

This simple question seems to stall out the conversation. Again, I’d like to know what peoples’ response would be if this priest threatened to deny someone the Sacrament of Marriage for wearing a white dress.

Well, first off, it’s not relevant. That has not happened. If it did all you could do is the same thing. Call the bishop and let him handle it. If he didn’t marry elsewhere.

What would you do if, as in my parish, the priest made the bride dress at the church so she couldn’t pull the typical late showing up?

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

. Its too bad that you can’t bring the Press on this as it would force the Diocese to remove the Priest (which wouldn’t be a bad move).

New American Bible

1 Corinthians ch 6 vs 1-6

1 How can any one of you with a case against another dare to bring it to the unjust for judgment instead of to the holy ones?

2 Do you not know that the holy ones will judge the world? If the world is to be judged by you, are you unqualified for the lowest law courts?

3 Do you not know that we will judge angels? Then why not everyday matters?

4 If, therefore, you have courts for everyday matters, do you seat as judges people of no standing in the church?

5 I say this to shame you. Can it be that there is not one among you wise enough to be able to settle a case between brothers?

6 But rather brother goes to court against brother, and that before unbelievers?

This is not a matter to be taken outside the Church. This is a matter that needs to be only addressed inside the Church.

If we have issue within the Church we need to have them settled within the Church. The OP is doing the right thing by taking it to her Bishop, she just needs to keep up with it. As I and others have said He has many other things to deal with that this issue seems trivial and could be easily over looked so she needs to stay on top of it. Just be prepared to not have it settled in time.

 

[Sarabande]

The only problem is this priest isn’t basing his decision on the fact that the majority this and majority that. He’s making a blanket decision based on crazy “theological” ideas.

I agree with your approach in as far as one should try and get his feelings. That said, once his ideas are found to be crazy and if he doesn’t concede, he should be challenged.

People should always approach the pastor first and then the bishop. This seems to have been done and will be done further. That said, priests who break canon law (and he is with the whole Confession after Communion and is threatening to deny the Sacrament due to a white dress) need to be taken on.

I agree. I was more focusing on the question of what I’d do if any priest would tell me that I couldn’t wear white to my wedding.

In terms of the OP’s priest in question, she has done everything that can be done, gone to him, challenged him and eventually taking it to the Bishop. The ball is in the Bishop’s court now. BUT that doesn’t mean she can’t be persistant or someone else said, keep up with it, afterwards if she sees that he is still getting away with not doing things correctly. Someone else, though, made a good point about this priest being very old and close to retirement and the Bishop not doing anything right away because he knows this priest won’t be around as a pastor much longer. It may not be right, but he might have other priorities.

I just think that there has to be a way to get make sure her daughter makes her FHC without any controversy which would affect her, whether that means getting her to another parish for her FHC or wearing a cream-colored dress (I would personally go somewhere else. I couldn’t in good conscience do it there considering the attitude of the priest and apparently of other questionable practices that the OP mentioned he had done during mass). AFTERWARDS, she can take an even stronger stand if she feels it is spiritually and morally important to do so.

(I still kind of like the idea of all the parents getting together and making sure that all the girls wear white.)

 

[oneGODoneCHURCH]

Well, first off, it’s not relevant. That has not happened. If it did all you could do is the same thing. Call the bishop and let him handle it. If he didn’t marry elsewhere.

What would you do if, as in my parish, the priest made the bride dress at the church so she couldn’t pull the typical late showing up?

It is relevant as it is basically the same. He is trying to control the the attire beyond just making sure that it is appropriate of the childes age and to be wore in church. He is making an unfounded statement ( from what we have been told) that needs to be addressed and corrected. He is the leader of the church not the controller.

As to havering the Brides dress at the Church I have no problem with that but again he he can not mandate it he can strongly encourage it and he can leave and not be there for the ceremony ( basically cancel it) if she is not there at the correct time. But he can not mandate were she gets ready just that she be on time.

 

[Sarabande]

Its too bad that you can’t bring the Press on this as it would force the Diocese to remove the Priest (which wouldn’t be a bad move).

Sometimes you regret what you prayed for. I am a classical musician by profession, but I also have a degree in journalism and worked a little in that business before realizing that I was definitely more of a musician than a persistant journalist. I can tell you, at least in my diocese, our newspapers are very anti-Catholic. (For instance, front page news in our newspaper was discussing how scandalous and horrible it was that Catholic high schools were giving students extra credit for going to Pro-life rallies and a tiny blurb in the bottom of the page of Milosovich’s death - which was front page news in most other papers.)

Tip someone off on something like this, it will be magnified into something worse than what it is and they will always try to turn it into a scandal. Some things do need to be publicized, but this is not one of them.

 

[iamrefreshed]

My only gripe with the “God will bless you if you are obedient to him, even if he is wrong” is that God might very well want her to stand up to this bully as best she can. Not that I’m trying to start a fight, but I hear that line too often out of protestant ministers who think women should be obedient to their husbands no matter how much abuse the husbands heap on them.

Comparing a wife staying with an abusive husband to obeying a priest about dress color is not even close!

 

[iamrefreshed]

Dear OP,

No matter what others may say do not back down from this Priest. There is a principle involved here which I think you realize and any attempt to back down or to comply would morally weaken your stance.

I sincerely hope that the Bishop moves on this. Its too bad that you can’t bring the Press on this as it would force the Diocese to remove the Priest (which wouldn’t be a bad move).

So you, knowing next to nothing about this priest other than one side of a story, want the press dragged in and the priest removed from duty.

This is so sad how people will cry about the lack of vocations and then demand removal of priests because they don’t cater to the laities desires for photo ops!

 

[iamrefreshed]

As to havering the Brides dress at the Church I have no problem with that but again he he can not mandate it he can strongly encourage it and he can leave and not be there for the ceremony ( basically cancel it) if she is not there at the correct time. But he can not mandate were she gets ready just that she be on time.

Yeah, he can mandate it. He does. And he is within his rights.

And my guess is if the bride showed up 5 minutes late and he cancelled it he would be derided for that.

 

[OutinChgoburbs]

Comparing a wife staying with an abusive husband to obeying a priest about dress color is not even close!

Really? Then please explain how it is different.

This priest is abusing his authority. As such, he should not have said authority. Yet, you want the OP to “obey” him even though he is wrong, and God will somehow bless her in this obedience.

We have an obligation not to follow another into sin, even a husband, even a priest. The Catholic Church has never taught it is OK to sin if somebody else is doing it, even one’s husband or one’s priest.

And this priest is indeed sinning by coming up with his own take on the theology of the Eucharist, and using the color of dresses to discriminate against who gets FHC, and who doesn’t.

So explain. How is it different?

 

[marytk]

while I love seeing those girls in white I am thinking everyone is making too big of deal I had a thought though what if the Priest and the CCD director said you MUST wear white. Would the same people screaming “he has no right” still be screaming? Now don’t get me wrong I think he is wrong. BUT being wrong in this isn’t a matter of sin. (now the delay of Penance is another matter entirely)

I think that this is everyone pushing a stumbling block in front of their brothers and sisters

 

[lovesMary]

I’m so surprised that some are urging a big confrontation with this elderly priest over this unfortunate situation. I don’t think the Bishop will be bothering to back up the OP on this. The Bishop is a busy man with many pressing concerns. He has a whole diocese to attend to with many complex problems that supercede a dress code that has been imposed by a stubborn priest. He’s probably wondering how in the world he will fill the priest’s vacancy when the old man dies or retires.

Yes the priest is wrong and controlling to impose this arbitrary rule. But, is it worth it to make this battle the focus of this child’s FHC? She is bonding with the children, she loves her teacher, and she will be very happy to wear a nice sweater over the white dress, I’m sure. It will be a glorious day, don’t spoil it!

This priest is clearly a product of post Vatican 2. Many priest from that era became fixated with these types of ideas that long held traditions are theologically incorrect!. Be patient, newer priests coming out of the seminaries are swinging this pendulum back towards tradition and orthodoxy!

Otherwise, if this is such an important issue, the OP can have the child make her FHC elsewhere, even if it delays it a year. Remember, 100 years ago children often didn’t make their FHC until well after age 7. If you read the story of the appearance of the Virgin Mary in Fatima, those children didn’t make their FHC until age 10.

 

[bear06]

Well, first off, it’s not relevant. That has not happened. If it did all you could do is the same thing. Call the bishop and let him handle it. If he didn’t marry elsewhere.

What would you do if, as in my parish, the priest made the bride dress at the church so she couldn’t pull the typical late showing up?

I find it quite interesting that people think that they can just simply make their Sacraments elsewhere. f you’ve read through the thread, you’ll see that the OP tried that.

Next, it’s hardly irrelevant. We all know full well (which is why this example has been largely ignored) that if a priest told a bride that she would be denied the Sacrament of Matrimony if she wore white that a “fuss” would definitely be made over that one and I hardly doubt that one person here wouldn’t have a serious issue with that (and please don’t go off on the “white might not be appropriate if she’s not a virgin” - assume virgin).

People are writing off this situation because we’re dealing with children and most don’t seem to think that this Sacrament is as serious as the Sacrament of Matirimony or that the symbol of white in this case is as important. From my view, the priest and his ilk have accomplished what they are trying to do. The symbols of our Church, having a properly disposed soul and canon law just don’t matter that much.

 

[cotaface]

A few notes as a f/u. This priest has been at this church way too long-almost 20 years! As a result, he’s been able to modify the way this church does things. He started saying, “white is not necessary” then a few years later, “please don’t wear white” and now “white is forbidden” and the child will be punished for wearing white. Have you ever heard of the Genesis community? He was one of the leaders. He calls kneeling during the consecration, penance before communion, genuflecting after receiving communion, etc, “left-over behaviors”. And these left over behaviors have no place in his church.
Despite his age, I assure you, he is not “elderly”.
One additional note, there are many other families today and in the past who have loathed the “no white” rule but are afraid to address this w/ the pastor. I assure you-they are not wrong-I addressed it w/ him and he was instantly irate with me. Again, having been pastor of this church for so long, he feels he truly is a dictator and not a benevolent one. I want to say this again-people in the church are afraid to disagree with him and for good reason.
There’s been a lot of opinion voiced here and good, bad, right or wrong, all of it has helped me feel even more strongly about what I need to do. I will find a way to ensure that the diocese takes their words of support and puts them into action. I will not put my child in any position of rejection, but I will not the status quo stand. I’ve got until April 13th…

 

[bear06]

I’m so surprised that some are urging a big confrontation with this elderly priest over this unfortunate situation. I don’t think the Bishop will be bothering to back up the OP on this. The Bishop is a busy man with many pressing concerns. He has a whole diocese to attend to with many complex problems that supercede a dress code that has been imposed by a stubborn priest. He’s probably wondering how in the world he will fill the priest’s vacancy when the old man dies or retires.

I’m not really sure why you’re under the impression this guy is elderly.

Yes the priest is wrong and controlling to impose this arbitrary rule. But, is it worth it to make this battle the focus of this child’s FHC? She is bonding with the children, she loves her teacher, and she will be very happy to wear a nice sweater over the white dress, I’m sure. It will be a glorious day, don’t spoil it!