Priest: Ultimate Fighting is 'Murder'

[Massacalitexan]

So I specifically joined the forums to find the answers to this exact question.

Is it Black and White? a Yes no answer.
Can I take enjoyment in watching the UFC or other mixed martial arts matches.

Independent of the secular and wordly advertising. Is watching to consenting aldults in combat competition okay. Where in the Catechism or Bible can you find some direction?

Do I need to just get my priest to watch UFC 102 to find out?

Thanks for your help

 

[Jaypeeto4]

I am opposed to both boxing and UFC.
In both, two children of God whose bodies are temples of the Holy Ghost,
get into a ring and intentionally beat the living hell out of each other —
and for WHAT? For the almighty dollar.

I am appalled by UFC and by the barbaric mentality it inculcates
and exacerbates.

Soon we will be back to gladiators actually killing each other to
please the screaming fans.

 

[Abenadar]

Read a catechism in regard to the fifth commandment.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

I am opposed to both boxing and UFC.
In both, two children of God whose bodies are temples of the Holy Ghost,
get into a ring and intentionally beat the living hell out of each other —
and for WHAT? For the almighty dollar.

I am appalled by UFC and by the barbaric mentality it inculcates
and exacerbates.

Soon we will be back to gladiators actually killing each other to
please the screaming fans.

Are you kidding me? If it just weren’t for the killing (and perhaps the dangerous injuries and animal abuse), I would actually find myself enjoying such competitions!

Martial arts and fighting skills are talents. They are gifts from God. I don’t believe God makes people have a knack for something only to have them bunch up knitting hats and neglecting it. In fact, at the risk of sounding like Po from Kung Fu Panda, I’m rather jealous of people who have such astounding fighting prowess.

Tournaments and bouts like this are tests of skill. Sure some people are greedy and only do it for the money but you can extend that to any type of competition.

 

[shockerfan]

I don’t see how the 5th commandment applies to today’s mixed martial arts (MMA) “fights”. Nor do I see that this is “legalized murder”, any more than hockey is “legalized murder” because fights break out there too. The object of the sport is to win. Winning can be done by knock our or submission. Many fights end up ending by submission with the loser “tapping out”. The object is not to “kill” your opponent.

Or are opponents to MMA also against Karate, Tae Kwon Do, Judo, Jui Jitsu, Aikido, wrestling, etc, since all of these variations of combat can result in injury or knockout?

The interview was a little disingenuious in that it showed clips from the early days of the UFC, when there were no rules or weight classes. Back then, you could kick a person when they were down, head butt, groin punch, etc. That is why so many jurisdictions banned the sport. Now they have rules and weigh classes. The focus is not on the “gladiator spectacle” of the even, rather it is on the “sport” of the event.

People appear to be making their opinions based upon outdated information, and how they “feel”, rather than the facts.

 

[WillieWonka]

Maybe some opponents of UFC can show some actual harm done? Compared to foorball?

 

[Wowbagger]

So I specifically joined the forums to find the answers to this exact question.

Is it Black and White? a Yes no answer.

Unlike so many othher things in Catholicism… no, it’s not a simple answer. People of good, well-formed, Catholic conscience – many of whom you see in this thread-- can and do disagree.

Personally, I suspect boxing is permissible but the culture of violence that seems to surround the UFC makes me, at the least, deeply suspicious of its moral character. But I make this opinion without having been very exposed to either activity. You should consider this issue carefully, Massacalitexan and, above all, prayerfully, and trust in the well-formed consciences of yourself and other wise Catholics.

 

[SamH]

I challenge any of you to find official Church proclamations that say sport fighting is perfectly ok. You won’t find any. What you will find is a slew of authentic Church teaching which says boxing, UFC, and the like are not to be patronized in any way. I, naturally, ascribe to Church teaching. Why don’t the rest of you?

Yet you couldn’t post or link to any of those teachings?

When I grew up our priest taught us boxing and shooting sports - both of which he picked up while in the Marines. So I guess my “church teachings” were a bit differant than yours.

 

[matt1985]

I think Ultimate Fighting is bad. But the guy who conducted the interview made a lot of excellent points. No easy answers to this one. The Father makes good points as well. As long as it is safe, there doesn’t seem to be anything wrong with it. I would have to do further investigaion of the issue in order to dtermine what I think of it and Im not in the mood to do so now.

 

[Abenadar]

I don’t see how the 5th commandment applies to today’s mixed martial arts (MMA) “fights”.

That’s probably because you didn’t read what the catechism actually says about the fifth commandment. Hint: there’s more to it than “Thou shalt not kill”.

Not only is this type of violence gratuitous, it is also the direct objective of the sport. At least with football the objective is to carry a ball across a field…Not to literally beat somebody senseless in a manner that can have real and lasting negative health effects, all in the name of “fun” and money.

And before anybody goes accusing me of doing nothing but ‘knitting’…think again. I’ve played most of the sports, contact or no contact. I’ve also had (more than) my fair share of fights, although I didn’t start them (aka justified self defense) and I never used any more force than was necessary to restrain the aggressor and I never gratuitiously hurt anybody physically (a lot of big egos and prides were hurt) though I am easily capable of doing so.

 

[WillieWonka]

That’s probably because you didn’t read what the catechism actually says about the fifth commandment. Hint: there’s more to it than “Thou shalt not kill”.

Not only is this type of violence gratuitous, it is also the direct objective of the sport. At least with football the objective is to carry a ball across a field…Not to literally beat somebody senseless in a manner that can have real and lasting negative health effects, all in the name of “fun” and money.

And before anybody goes accusing me of doing nothing but ‘knitting’…think again. I’ve played most of the sports, contact or no contact. I’ve also had (more than) my fair share of fights, although I didn’t start them (aka justified self defense) and I never used any more force than was necessary to restrain the aggressor and I never gratuitiously hurt anybody physically (a lot of big egos and prides were hurt) though I am easily capable of doing so.

Does anyone know how UFC deaths compare to football deaths? Is it OK to die for the ball?

 

[shockerfan]

That’s probably because you didn’t read what the catechism actually says about the fifth commandment. Hint: there’s more to it than “Thou shalt not kill”.

Not only is this type of violence gratuitous, it is also the direct objective of the sport. At least with football the objective is to carry a ball across a field…Not to literally beat somebody senseless in a manner that can have real and lasting negative health effects, all in the name of “fun” and money.

And before anybody goes accusing me of doing nothing but ‘knitting’…think again. I’ve played most of the sports, contact or no contact. I’ve also had (more than) my fair share of fights, although I didn’t start them (aka justified self defense) and I never used any more force than was necessary to restrain the aggressor and I never gratuitiously hurt anybody physically (a lot of big egos and prides were hurt) though I am easily capable of doing so.

As I said in my previous post, the object is “not to literally beat someone senseless”, especially if the referee is doing their job. Many of the matches involve submission. I would say when mma first started, it was gratuitously violent, and you may have had a point then.

 

[Abenadar]

As I said in my previous post, the object is “not to literally beat someone senseless”, especially if the referee is doing their job. Many of the matches involve submission. I would say when mma first started, it was gratuitously violent, and you may have had a point then.

Oh, come on…! The object of any fight is “submission” by the most direct means, aka knockout. But if a fighter has to resort to tapping out, well, that’s “acceptable”. Nevertheless, the violence is purely gratuitous. You weren’t able to answer the charge that this type of fighting is gratuitious…And the reason you can’t say it isn’t is because it is!

 

[WillieWonka]

Oh, come on…! The object of any fight is “submission” by the most direct means, aka knockout. But if a fighter has to resort to tapping out, well, that’s “acceptable”. Nevertheless, the violence is purely gratuitous. You weren’t able to answer the charge that this type of fighting is gratuitious…And the reason you can’t say it isn’t is because it is!

The violence is not gratuitous. It is integral to the fight. You wouldn’t have a fight wthout it. That’s what a fight is. It’s violence directed at subduing an opponent. What’s the big deal? If I like to fight, and the other guy likes to fight, we jump on the mat and get after it. Then we can go for a beer.

(Note the UFC fighters are pros and come back over and over. Do you really think anyone is getting hurt?)

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Oh, come on…! The object of any fight is “submission” by the most direct means, aka knockout. But if a fighter has to resort to tapping out, well, that’s “acceptable”. Nevertheless, the violence is purely gratuitous. You weren’t able to answer the charge that this type of fighting is gratuitious…And the reason you can’t say it isn’t is because it is!

What is wrong if it’s “gratuitous”? There are just a ton of people who love action.That’s why stuff like that exist as entertainment. That’s why kung fu flicks hire fight choreographers.

Just because you can claim that you’ve engaged in fights and contact, sports it doesn’t mean you know what it’s like to find such action exhilarating. As far as your concern that people injure themselves and put their bodies at risk goes, you can pretty much say the same for extreme street skating, surfing, sky diving, snow boarding, and other daredevil sports.

 

[Abenadar]

The violence is not gratuitous. It is integral to the fight. You wouldn’t have a fight wthout it. That’s what a fight is. It’s violence directed at subduing an opponent. What’s the big deal? If I like to fight, and the other guy likes to fight, we jump on the mat and get after it. Then we can go for a beer.

(Note the UFC fighters are pros and come back over and over. Do you really think anyone is getting hurt?)

The whole contest is gratuitous. That’s what a fight is that doesn’t have a good and noble objective as its end. These people aren’t fighting for the faith, they’re not defending their families…It’s all just gratuitous. I’m surprised I need to explain this to adults.

 

[Abenadar]

What is wrong if it’s “gratuitous”? There are just a ton of people who love action.That’s why stuff like that exist as entertainment. That’s why kung fu flicks hire fight choreographers.

Yes. Gratuitous action. What’s the objective. Also, did you read the catechism as I suggested???

As far as your concern that people injure themselves and put their bodies at risk, you can pretty much say the same for extreme street skating, surfing, sky diving, snow boarding, and other daredevil sports.

Thank you. Yes, many “extreme” sports can be labelled as immoral due to a violation of the fifth commandment.

 

[WillieWonka]

The whole contest is gratuitous. That’s what a fight is that doesn’t have a good and noble objective as its end. These people aren’t fighting for the faith, they’re not defending their families…It’s all just gratuitous. I’m surprised I need to explain this to adults.

OK. So it’s all gratuitous. The good and noble purpose is the entertainment of the participants and spectators. It’s fun.

Fighting for the faith? Defending their families? Of course they aren’t. So what?

No need to explain. You are right. The whole thing is gratuitous. Big deal.

 

[Lost_Wanderer]

Yes. Gratuitous action. What’s the objective. Also, did you read the catechism as I suggested???

Thank you. Yes, many “extreme” sports can be labelled as immoral due to a violation of the fifth commandment.

I’ve already looked that part ages ago. All I’ve known it to speak out against is abortion, euthanasia, suicide, the killing of the innocent etc. It doesn’t speak anything on the issue of competitive combat so as long as it doesn’t deliberately promote murder. There is no human right being violated in these matches and in these sports.

Don’t think you’re the first anti-action/anti-adrenaline proponent I’ve run into. I’ve met plenty of that same propaganda when I was younger and it never sat well with me. While I never engaged in contact sports, I do know what it’s like to appreciate good action. When I make comments such “bunching up and knitting” it’s really just one of my ways of saying that people like you who speak out against this type of “violence” are just folks who like living in bubbles.

 

[Abenadar]

OK. So it’s all gratuitous. The good and noble purpose is the entertainment of the participants and spectators. It’s fun.

Fighting for the faith? Defending their families? Of course they aren’t. So what?

No need to explain. You are right. The whole thing is gratuitous. Big deal.

I’m glad you were able to respond with such succinct, coherent, and persuasive arguments.