I
irishpatrick
Guest
Indeed–math does not lie.
- Status
I
irishpatrick
Guest
Folks,
Secular-paganism has been growing for the last four decades, perhaps longer. There is only one counter…we all must turn back to the Lord and follow His Church in all ways. We must become prayerful and sacrificial…that is how the early Church grew in the face of persecution.
If we do not respond now, I fear the future of the Church will be quite rough. It will go something like this:
I fear Catholics in the USA are too passive, and that they will not respond to the present call and need.
Secular-paganism has been growing for the last four decades, perhaps longer. There is only one counter…we all must turn back to the Lord and follow His Church in all ways. We must become prayerful and sacrificial…that is how the early Church grew in the face of persecution.
If we do not respond now, I fear the future of the Church will be quite rough. It will go something like this:
- The Church in the USA will decrease in size each year.
- Pressure will be increased to force the Church to do things that are contrary to its teachings.
- Catholics will begin to experience real persecution, though the secular-pagan culture will call it equality and fairness.
- Church buildings and parishes will close.
- Catholic schools will close.
- Catholic hospitals and charitable organizations will change hands to secularists.
- The Catholic Churches and schools will lose tax exampt status and will be required by law to do all things a state school does.
I fear Catholics in the USA are too passive, and that they will not respond to the present call and need.
B
Bubba_Switzler
Guest
I say point that finger right back at the priest.
Why are there fewer Catholic children attending Catholic schools?
Two principle reasons have been given:
Catholics schools are not teaching children to desire large families.
Catholics schools are not teaching children how to earn an income sufficient to support a large family.
While the secular-pagan culture is certainly a cause, it is not to blame because it is not morally responsible for the instruction of our children.
If Catholics schools were effective in both of the above areas the priest would have nothing to complain about.
Catholic schools are closing because they are failing in their mission.
Why are there fewer Catholic children attending Catholic schools?
Two principle reasons have been given:
- Contraception, and
- Affordability.
Catholics schools are not teaching children to desire large families.
Catholics schools are not teaching children how to earn an income sufficient to support a large family.
While the secular-pagan culture is certainly a cause, it is not to blame because it is not morally responsible for the instruction of our children.
If Catholics schools were effective in both of the above areas the priest would have nothing to complain about.
Catholic schools are closing because they are failing in their mission.
I
irishpatrick
Guest
Sure, let us place blame on a Priest who is trying to make a difference. Sorry, every Catholic is bound to be well formed in the faith…whether or not Priests help does not mitigate that responsibility.
B
Bubba_Switzler
Guest
All people should pursue truth but those whose mission it is to teach are the ones who bear the greatest responsiblity for ignorance. He should fire himself for his incompetence. (Of course, I am not picking on him personally, only as a vocal representative of the parochial school system.)
I
irishpatrick
Guest
Parents are the primary provider of formation for their children. Parents have not done their job, and in fact, they have done the exact opposite…they have taught their children anti-Catholic stuff.
The truth is the Church in the USA has failed, yet we Catholics allowed them to fail…it is our fault.
M
mafh
Guest
That is very close to my hometown (one county over), where I lived until I married at 22. There are no jobs there. My brother-in-law wants to stay in the area to be near my mother-in-law, but he’s been unemployed for 2 and a half years. He gets a lot of interviews, but there are so many applicants for each position that he hasn’t been successful yet.
My high school graduating class had 200-some students in it, but I can think of only one or two people from my graduating class who stayed in the area.
B
Bubba_Switzler
Guest
I agree that parents are primarily responsible. But parents delegate most of this to Catholic schools and pay parochial schools good money to teach their children, often making great sacrifices to do so. And certainly the Church, too, must share the blame, though it is more indirectly involved.
If it were the case that Catholic schools were dealing with students miseducated by their parents or the Church I might have more sympathy for your point. But as someone pointed out earlier, the main maleducation is by the culture, not the parents or the Church.
Public schools have done a superb job of teaching paganism. But Catholic schools seem not to be as effective. Maybe home schooling is the answer.
Catholic educators should be making public apologies for their multi-generational failures and tell us what they plan to change to make change things around. In the mean time, parents would do well to think twice about what they get for their educational dollar.
I have no sympathy for this priest. None.
I
irishpatrick
Guest
That is a very harsh attitude to have toward a Priest. Might want to pull that down a bit.
The Priest is trying, perhaps you do not think it is good enough, yet he is trying.
Sorry, I disagree in general. I do agree that the culture has gone waaay south, but Catholics have joined that pagan culture even in the face of Church teachings. The majority of Catholics know contraception and abortion are morally wrong, yet the majority ignores that. The majority of Catholics know that fornication and living together is morally wrong, yet the majority ignores that too. The majority of Catholics know that same sex marriage and divorce, are all morally wrong–yet the majority stands in support of all of those. The Church no longer has the parish level presence it once had because we do not have enough Catholic Priests, and part of the reasons for that is that Catholic parents do not have many children these days.
Catholics have become secular-pagans, just like the rest of the culture…and while the Church has failed (especially with the abuse crisis), the majority of the blame rests with lay Catholics because they chose to reject Church teachings.
Now, we can whine about all this, or we can start changing things.
B
Bubba_Switzler
Guest
Again, my harsh attitude is not for Fr. Sauppe personally but for the Catholic education establishment, generally.That is a very harsh attitude to have toward a Priest. Might want to pull that down a bit.
The Priest is trying, perhaps you do not think it is good enough, yet he is trying.
Sorry, I disagree in general. I do agree that the culture has gone waaay south, but Catholics have joined that pagan culture even in the face of Church teachings. The majority of Catholics know contraception and abortion are morally wrong, yet the majority ignores that. The majority of Catholics know that fornication and living together is morally wrong, yet the majority ignores that too. The majority of Catholics know that same sex marriage and divorce, are all morally wrong–yet the majority stands in support of all of those. The Church no longer has the parish level presence it once had because we do not have enough Catholic Priests, and part of the reasons for that is that Catholic parents do not have many children these days.
Catholics have become secular-pagans, just like the rest of the culture…and while the Church has failed (especially with the abuse crisis), the majority of the blame rests with lay Catholics because they chose to reject Church teachings.
Now, we can whine about all this, or we can start changing things.
Your last point is the most important.
What’s done is done. What is going to change going forward?
That is a question to pose to first and foremost to the mirror. It’s much easier to blame someone else. I would have much more respect for Fr. Sauppe if he were telling us what he planned to do. I have my plan.
J
JMJSHJ
Guest
Shame on you for disrespecting a Priest. Who are you to judge him? You could benefit from some grammar because you say that your harsh attitude is not for Fr. Sauppe but then you say this:
S
Spyral
Guest
He’s not making a difference, where are his children?
Q
quiet52
Guest
I think we’ve seen #1-6 happening for some time.
Do you have any ideas about how “we the Church” should be responding to this current condition? Also, how can we persuade U.S. Catholics that they are too passive and blind to the present call and need?
T
TheWarriorMonk
Guest
The school issue has been occurring for decades. Many of the schools by me, including the several parishes I’ve been since I married and moved, were shut down in the 1970s.
I
irishpatrick
Guest
I said he is trying to make a difference.
C
Corki
Guest
He certainly didn’t contracept, now did he?
I
irishpatrick
Guest
There are many things we can do.
– Faithful Catholics can start living a truly Catholic life, and not be ashamed to let others see and know that they are Catholic. For many people, nothing is more powerful than seeing a person of faith.
– Faitful Catholics need to get on their knees and pray, and pray, and pray. We need to seek Eucharistic Adoration for our parishes, and we need to help spread the word about adoration if we already have it locally.
– We need to speak with our Priests and Pastors in order to encourage them to get Catholics to start praying again. Getting Catholics to just give time outside of Sunday Mass will be a huge change.
– We need to encourage our Priests and Pastors to start a mens only Bible Study. There is a huge crisis with men–if we can bring back the men to full faithfulness, then we will have a chance at turning things around. Men need to know why the CHURCH and the WORLD needs them to be faithful.
– After we have Catholics turning even a little back to God, we need to then encourage our Priests and Pastors to start speaking to the laity about the need for authentic Catholic formation, and that it is the responsibility of every Catholic to help.
– Then we can start making real plans for monthly and annual capital campaigns to help pay for more Catholic children to attend Catholic schools.
– In the midst of all this (and much, much, more) we need to pray like never before. Each of us should make a list of people in our own lives who need prayers for conversation and salvation. We need to take those lists to Church and pray before the Lord begging Him to flood those people with Grace so that they will turn back to Him. If we have time during the day, go to Church and pray for everyone you know, and if the Church is locked, as them to open it for you, and let others know when you will be there so that a prayer time can rise during a time the Church is normally empty.
– We to encourage our Priests to start speaking about the need for more Priests. How can we expect more Priests if we do not encourage men to consider a vocation?
– We need to stop conforming to the world. Rather, we need to joyfully live our lives in Christ.
– This all within our grasps, if we have 1,000 people give $100 over a year, that is 40 extra students for that year.
– We need to speak with our Priests and Pastors (don’t write letters, actually speak with them, they are human beings, they are men, they can and should be approached with serious issues). We should be asking our Priests to help insure that our schools are faithful, always.
– We need to speak with Principals and teachers about these issues…everyone needs to be onboard this train–everyone. We have no time to spare, we must get to work, today.
– Every parish should have a prayer group with the specific task of praying rosaries and others prayers for help for that parish, and for the conversion and return of all Catholics.
– We need to STOP worrying about building new structures and buildings (unless they are in terrible condition and must be replaced). Instead, that money should go toward helping more students attend Catholic schools. Parishes with an abundance of money should be helping other parishes to fund additional students in other Catholci schools.
– We must remember that one of our major callings is to help the poor and needy, yet we cannot fulfill that call if we shrink to such a small size that we no longer have the means to help. It is imperative for the Church to stay healthy in order to have the means to help the poor and needy. Therefore, Catholics need to be retaught that everything comes from God, and that we are ONE Catholic family…a wealthy parish should not be hoarding its wealth, it should be helping the much more financially strapped parishes.
– We need to encourage our Bishops and Cardinals to provide strong faithful leadership. And, we need to thank those who already do that and ask them to keep it up.
– Finally, we need to pray for our Clergy. We need to beg God to help them be true to their calling, to Him, to the Church, to the Lord’s flock.
B
Bubba_Switzler
Guest
Having children is one way but not the only way. Having more children won’t accomplish much if they simply surrender to the popular culture. I will give him credit for speaking up about this. I’ll reply to IrishPatrick on what clergy can do.
B
Bubba_Switzler
Guest
A good, if long and complex, list. Even so, I think you missed a crucial element.
One of the reasons that Catholic schools are failing is that they are not the best private schools available. Because they are not the best school many of the best students end up going to better non-Catholic schools. By and large these are the children of better-off parents. The parents can afford to provide more support and the children are more likely to experience financial success in life which, in turn, makes them the next generation of givers.
You mentioned capital campaigns and giving but you are only scratching the surface of what is needed. Many Catholic families cannot afford Catholic school at current tuitions. (I’ll leave aside for the moment the the spending priorites of some families.) If you look at what collges and universities are doing you will see a far more aggressive program. Catholic schools need to emulate that.
Finally, you also mentioned generally about “authentic Catholic formation” but specifically this is where Catholic schools have been the greatest failure. Why are Catholic schools not more successful conveying Catholic teaching in general but specifically with respect to the issue Fr. Sauppe raised, namely having larger families. I won’t beat this dead horse further but this is the central problem here.
I think Catholic schools would be a huge success if they simply addressed the above three items. And if Catholic schools were more successful all else would, in time, fall into place.
I
irishpatrick
Guest
My list was not intended to be exhaustive…it was intended to be a general springboard, nothing more. Certainly, you realize, that there are many things that can done.
As for your points about not being the best schools, I disagree fully. A non-Catholic private school is inferior to a Catholic school for the very fact that it is not Catholic. Also, some private schools will stick an “Academy” label on its name, which gives an impression that it is somehow superior. I will stack-up students from RC schools against all others and I know the RC students will perform better overall. Not in every school, not in every case, but overall RC schools outperform other schools around them.
Catholic schools are there to provide academic educations (and the vast majority do a much better job than their public school counterparts); however, a RC school exists to formed children in the faith and to have them receive the sacraments, etc. No other private school can approach that.
Your post, respectfully, illuminates a huge problem. Many Catholics do not grasp the purpose of Catholic schools. RC schools exist in order to form young Catholics–that is the primary reason, and without that, RC schools have NO reason to exist. The Church and its schools exist to help bring souls to Christ, and by doing that, salvation.
- Status