Priest: You've contracepted our parochial school out of existence

[manualman]

But one must ask: are Catholic schools worth the money? Are they succeeding at creating a Catholic culture? I see little evidence of success.

If Catholic schools were succeeding then you’d expect to see them growing, not dying.

On this, we agree fully! It’s NOT worth the cost just because the school name starts with “St. …”, there is a religion class and maybe an all school mass once a month.

Let me tell you about my kids school. They opened about 4 years ago after a several year fight in the diocese to get permission to build the place. There hadn’t been a NEW catholic school built in our diocese in nearly 30 years! People said it would be a boondoggle, a disaster. But the pastor knew what catholic education COULD be, but so rarely is. He rallied the parish to the ideas I stated above: a catholic school where the catholic identity comes FIRST. Where the catholic worldview infuses not just the religion class, but the history, art, music, literature instruction. Every day starts with mass for the whole school. Every child goes to confession monthly (after their first, that is!), they have Holy Day celebrations, they have saints of the week, instead of Halloween, they celebrate All Saints and every kids dresses up as a saint! The priests are an active part of school life (and know every kid’s name!!) and visit classrooms periodically.

The obvious question is “Why aren’t ALL catholic schools run this way?” It mystifies me. It’s like many of them are embarrassed to be “too” catholic. We aren’t and our school’s biggest problem is figuring out how to build more student capacity onto the building.

And a funny thing happens along the way. The parents who are up for this sort of education ALSO end up being parents actively involved in making sure their kids do the work, understand the lessons, are keeping up. It makes for a great academic environment, even if the teachers are chronically underpaid and have few fancy letters after their names. They stay because THEY love teaching in that environment too.

 

[CradleJourney]

Culture and values are not taught so much as absorbed. We live in a post-Christian culture that has become very hostile to catholic values. Corporations spend billions of dollars every year to get 30 second ads on your TV because they WORK. They succeed in changing people’s decisions and behaviors. Anybody who thinks sending their children off to the mercy of our secularized culture at large for 8 hours a day, 5 days a week and thinks that won’t have a negative influence on their minds and souls doesn’t understand the human condition and the workings of Grace.

While I envy your music program, I’m sorry for culture of the area you find yourself in.

I agree I probably don’t understand “the workings of Grace”, but from my interpretation of the phrase, I do see it in and around me all the time.

I admit that I do not understand your point of view. My friend’s kids attend Catholic high school, are exposed to peers (and their parents) who drink, cuss, smoke, do drugs, and have premarital sex. And my daughter attending Catholic college would laugh uproariously at the idea that she isn’t exposed to the same negative influences from her peers.

Maybe it’s like the pledge of allegiance - I keep seeing posts and comments about how they need to bring it back into schools which baffles me, because here it’s never left. My kids say it every day - fully and with respect. Anyone looking for a free condom from our public high school is going to be disappointed. The only issue I’ve found with the books they read is the predominance of Hispanic names (mainly because I have trouble figuring out the pronunciation). Is it being exposed to homosexuality that’s a concern? My neighbors are a homosexual couple with a daughter the same age as my youngest, so whether at Catholic school or public, I’d still have to deal with that issue.

In closing - I understand there are those, who based on their own experiences and beliefs, feel that a Catholic school can and will provide a protected environment filled with spiritual education and encouragement. They also feel that a public school is a place devoid of values and moral education, and filled with students and staff determined to mock and destroy all Christian belief.

But that is simply not the case everywhere. It is not the case in my situation. Reading the posts on this thread and some of the broad generalities spoken of, I wonder how many posters actually work or volunteer in their local school (Catholic or public). Trust me - it’s a huge sacrifice of my time to spend as many hours as I do volunteering there but it’s well worth it to both be able to help and to know what’s happening.

Is there a cultural war going on? Definitely!!! And parents must wage it every single hour of every single day - and any parent who thinks otherwise is wrong.

Can a Catholic school be a weapon in that war? Sure!
Is it always the right or best weapon? Is it the only choice? Not in my views and personal experiences - and that’s where we’ll have to agree to disagree.

My hope and prayer is that everyone who has posted here or just read this thread will take the same passion they feel and go out and use it to improve the lives of our children wherever and however they can.

 

[manualman]

And my daughter attending Catholic college would laugh uproariously at the idea that she isn’t exposed to the same negative influences from her peers.

This is the crux of the problem. There are hundreds of colleges in this country that claim a catholic identity. There are maybe 25 colleges that actually act like Catholicism is actually the bedrock of their identity and purpose (and you probably haven’t heard of most of them). The rest are no better and perhaps worse for catholic students than your average Big Ten school.

Similar problems exist in elementary school. But the existence of bad ones doesn’t negate the beauty of the great ones.

 

[Dara]

If his sermons are as uninspiring as this article, I seen why he’s had a dwindling parish. He didn’t include poor leadership from the pulpit in his rant.

The point of mass isn’t entertainment during the homily. The point of mass is that the entire thing is a prayer pointing to the Eucharist.

 

[Tomdstone]

The majority of Catholics know contraception and abortion are morally wrong, yet the majority ignores that. The majority of Catholics know that fornication and living together is morally wrong, yet the majority ignores that too. The majority of Catholics know that same sex marriage and divorce, are all morally wrong–yet the majority stands in support of all of those. The Church no longer has the parish level presence it once had because we do not have enough Catholic Priests, and part of the reasons for that is that Catholic parents do not have many children these days.

Catholics have become secular-pagans, just like the rest of the culture…and while the Church has failed (especially with the abuse crisis), the majority of the blame rests with lay Catholics because they chose to reject Church teachings.

There are people in the USA and Canada who like having large families. For example, there are a couple of Muslim families in our neighborhood. Each family that I know about has six or more children, with more on the way. Also, the Muslim women dress quite modestly in public which contrasts rather sharply with the way I see many Catholic women dressing in Church.

 

[josie_L]

I live in Massachusetts…one of the most secular states in the country. It is the land of the Cafeteria Catholic.

I have three Catholic elementary schools within a 2 mile radius of my house. One is a stone’s throw away and that isn’t even the one my husband and I plan to send our children.

All of them are absolutely thriving. It’s the public schools that are closing left and right. We have a public school that is a block from my house. It closed it’s doors this year.

It has very little to do with the number of children a family has. If the school can’t perform or meet expectations…no one will support it.

Why are they thriving? Because they are outstanding schools. All of them.

The public schools? Not so much.

If there are good Catholic schools, why is Massachusetts the Land of Cafeteria Catholics?

 

[Cider]

If there are good Catholic schools, why is Massachusetts the Land of Cafeteria Catholics?

Read Faithful Departed The Collapse of Boston’s Catholic Culture by Philip Lawler. It lays it out quite well.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Read Faithful Departed The Collapse of Boston’s Catholic Culture by Philip Lawler. It lays it out quite well.

amazon.com/The-Faithful-Departed-Collapse-Catholic/dp/1594033749

For the benefitof those of us who have not yet read the book can you provide a synopsis? (The Amazon description is not very helpful.)

I suspect, though, that JosieL was asking a question similar to what I posed: If Catholic schools were effective how did they fail to transmit the culture to the next generation? And if they failed to transmit the culture to the next generation why should we regard them as effective?

 

[Cider]

Pity the priest couldn’t have children he could lead by example.

I hope all the people who are infertile or had miscarriages feel sufficiently judged by his assumptions.

Why would someone has been open to life and spent years not using any birth control and praying for a child or children they never got because of infertility feel judged by his statements? His points are clearly to those that were not open to life.

 

[Cider]

amazon.com/The-Faithful-Departed-Collapse-Catholic/dp/1594033749

For the benefitof those of us who have not yet read the book can you provide a synopsis? (The Amazon description is not very helpful.)

I suspect, though, that JosieL was asking a question similar to what I posed: If Catholic schools were effective how did they fail to transmit the culture to the next generation? And if they failed to transmit the culture to the next generation why should we regard them as effective?

Because schools should be reinforcing what is already being lived at home. And frankly that isn’t happening all the time, instead parents too often ( not always) rely on school to do what they should be doing themselves, modeling a faithful Catholic life. This is not unique to Catholics, it’s also rampant in other religions. Additionally too many Catholic schools are not run by Catholics and for Catholics.

Plus how are we defining a good Catholic school? For too many people it’s defined as a good school based on it’s general education quality and not on it’s orthodoxy.

 

[Bubba_Switzler]

Because schools should be reinforcing what is already being lived at home. And frankly that isn’t happening all the time, instead parents too often ( not always) rely on school to do what they should be doing themselves, modeling a faithful Catholic life.

Let’s imagine going back in time to that Golden Age when Catholics were living their Catholicism at home and the Catholic schools were doing their job of complementing the Catholic home life with faithful Catholic teaching.

How did the serpent enter this garden of eden?

Keep in mind that the parents of one generation are the children of the previous generation. To say that some generation of Catholic parents screwed it up is to condemn their Catholic education.

This is not unique to Catholics, it’s also rampant in other religions.

True, of course, but surely Catholics are not depending on Protestants for transmiting the faith. If there is a cultural war between Christianity and paganism I’d expect Catholics to be on the front line leading the fight and setting the example.

Additionally too many Catholic schools are not run by Catholics and for Catholics. Plus how are we defining a good Catholic school? For too many people it’s defined as a good school based on it’s general education quality and not on it’s orthodoxy.

I don’t see how you can have a good Catholic school that does not accomplish both. If Catholic orthodoxy is in conflict with general education quality then we have an even bigger problem on our hands. But if Catholic orthodoxy is a vitamin for general education then you’d expect Catholic schools to easliy do better on both scores. (And let’s note that some do, as several previous posters have attested.)

 

[josie_L]

Read Faithful Departed The Collapse of Boston’s Catholic Culture by Philip Lawler. It lays it out quite well.

Thank you, I believe Philip Lawler is not actually Catholic but has written several books concerning Catholicism. I will look into it.

 

[josie_L]

Because schools should be reinforcing what is already being lived at home. And frankly that isn’t happening all the time,

instead parents too often ( not always) rely on school to do what they should be doing themselves, modeling a faithful Catholic life.

I’m a catechist so I can relate to this (I voluntarily teach the faith to young kids at church).

 

[ishii]

Yup. It’s almost insulting that he’d point the finger at Catholics who have less than 4 kids for his school going out of business. Catholic school is NOT cheap. And likewise if you have 9 children maybe you won’t be able to afford paying a few thousand a year for tuition for each child. And besides, don’t people who have a ton of kids like that normally home school anyway? That article was so off on so many levels.

You are right - Catholic schools are not cheap. But that is because they are staffed by lay teachers - many with families of their own to support. They generally don’t get paid as much as their public school teacher counterparts, but they still get a decent salary with benefits. Contrast that with the Catholic schools of the past which were staffed by nuns or by priests and nuns at the secondary level - as someone pointed out they basically worked and received room and board. That is one reason why the Catholic schools of the past were so cheap and why they are so expensive now. There is a priest shortage and I’m guessing there aren’t many nuns now either - to staff Catholic schools. Those priests and nuns who staffed the Catholic schools when the tuition was cheap came from large families. There aren’t many large Catholic families anymore.

Ishii

 

[ishii]

I agree that parents are primarily responsible. But parents delegate most of this to Catholic schools and pay parochial schools good money to teach their children, often making great sacrifices to do so. And certainly the Church, too, must share the blame, though it is more indirectly involvedIf it were the case that Catholic schools were dealing with students miseducated by their parents or the Church I might have more sympathy for your point. But as someone pointed out earlier, the main maleducation is by the culture, not the parents or the Church.

Public schools have done a superb job of teaching paganism. But Catholic schools seem not to be as effective. Maybe home schooling is the answer.

Catholic educators should be making public apologies for their multi-generational failures and tell us what they plan to change to make change things around. In the mean time, parents would do well to think twice about what they get for their educational dollar.

I have no sympathy for this priest. None.

(my bold italics)

Parents who delegate the formation - moral and spiritual - of their children to the Catholic school are failing to do their duty as the primary educators of their children. Furthermore, those parents who delegate to the CAtholic school those things are of course not delegating to priests and nuns - but to lay teachers, many of whom are not serious Catholics or don’t really have a firm grasp of the faith to begin with. As someone pointed out earlier in the thread - too many Catholic schools are merely glorified secular private schools with a religion class tacked on to fulfill the required “catholic identity.” There is plenty of blame to go around. As you mentioned (I think it was you) - it starts with looking in the mirror. Good points too, by Irishpatrick and Manualman, and others.

Ishii

 

[ishii]

School is about academics. What does the above have to do with academics?

Catholic school is about educating the whole person - in the faith and intellectually. So if the Catholic schools are lapse in educating the students in the Catholic faith (or their curriculum and teachers are lukewarm or ineffective) then they are letting down their students and the families which sacrifice so much to send them there.

Ishii

 

[ishii]

amazon.com/The-Faithful-Departed-Collapse-Catholic/dp/1594033749

For the benefitof those of us who have not yet read the book can you provide a synopsis? (The Amazon description is not very helpful.)

I suspect, though, that JosieL was asking a question similar to what I posed: If Catholic schools were effective how did they fail to transmit the culture to the next generation? And if they failed to transmit the culture to the next generation why should we regard them as effective?

(my bold italics)

The Catholic schools aren’t the primary educators of children. It is the parents. So if you want answers as to why Catholic culture was not transmitted to the next generation, then don’t just look at the Catholic schools, but also look at the Catholic parents - have they done their job effectively? Also look at the Catholic churches - have they done their job effectively? I would argue that the failure has been a group effort.

Let’s imagine going back in time to that Golden Age when Catholics were living their Catholicism at home and the Catholic schools were doing their job of complementing the Catholic home life with faithful Catholic teaching.

How did the serpent enter this garden of eden?

Keep in mind that the parents of one generation are the children of the previous generation. To say that some generation of Catholic parents screwed it up is to condemn their Catholic education.

That is a very good point - and good question. When and how did the breakdown occur?

Ishii

 

[Skadi]

Having myself gone to a Catholic school and still having plenty of school pride despite no longer being catholic (I hope to teach history there some day) I think this is a shame.

The problem however, is tuition. Private schools are constantly jacking up tuition while constantly making unnecisary additions. I know the archdiocese I live in randomly jacked up tuition in the 70’s to pay for all kinds of random expansions and the like. People couldn’t afford it anymore and left. Then they had to go and jack the price up again. It has now become a vicious cycle that is slowly eating away at the foundation of the school system.

Between that and he slow but exponential growth of social liberalism in the American population is what is killing these schools. Not condoms.

 

[JimG]

Having myself gone to a Catholic school and still having plenty of school pride despite no longer being catholic (I hope to teach history there some day) I think this is a shame.

The problem however, is tuition. Private schools are constantly jacking up tuition while constantly making unnecisary additions. I know the archdiocese I live in randomly jacked up tuition in the 70’s to pay for all kinds of random expansions and the like. People couldn’t afford it anymore and left. Then they had to go and jack the price up again. It has now become a vicious cycle that is slowly eating away at the foundation of the school system.

Between that and he slow but exponential growth of social liberalism in the American population is what is killing these schools. Not condoms.

I’m really beginning to think that public schools should be outlawed. They suck all the education funding from the public so that they can ONLY afford public schools. If the state wishes to subsidize education, let it be in the form of vouchers where students and parents can choose the schools they want. I’m pro-choice on education.

 

[Skadi]

I’m really beginning to think that public schools should be outlawed. They suck all the education funding from the public so that they can ONLY afford public schools. If the state wishes to subsidize education, let it be in the form of vouchers where students and parents can choose the schools they want. I’m pro-choice on education.

I’m all for a voucher system, but atleas where I live the amount spent by every individual in public Ed through tax’s isn’t that high and we still get very high test scores. It’s the urban, liberal states like NJ and Illinois that spend thousands per student for horrendous test scores.