They have been excommunicated by the Major Archbishop of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church.Good day, recently while I was reading about the SSPX, I came accros an article on the SSPJ. As far as I can tell they are just Traditional Ukranian Catholics. Does anybody know why they are in poor standing with Rome?
What Latinizations did the Ukranian Catholic Church undergo in the first place, and which do the SSPJ wish to retain?They have been excommunicated by the Major Archbishop of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church.
They wish to retain (or even expand) latinizations of the Byzantine rite within the UGCC.
Same latinizations that all Byzantines went through. Just to name two kneeling and the replacing of Eastern prayers with Latin Devotions such as the rosary before liturgy instead of Matins (Orthos).What Latinizations did the Ukranian Catholic Church undergo in the first place, and which do the SSPJ wish to retain?
Not trying to argue here but isn’t the Rosary a private devotion useable by all Catholics regardless of rite?Same latinizations that all Byzantines went through. Just to name two kneeling and the replacing of Eastern prayers with Latin Devotions such as the rosary before liturgy instead of Matins (Orthos).
I am not sure what the SSPJ were pushing, I just know that they were excommunicated by the head of the UGCC and that excommunication was upheld by Rome. One of the stated reasons was that they wanted to keep latinizations in place and expand them. Another was disobedience to the head of the UGCC.
Yes, but many Church pray it as a public devotion before Mass, which is fine in the Roman Church.Not trying to argue here but isn’t the Rosary a private devotion useable by all Catholics regardless of rite?
Sorry, although I have a great love for the Eastern Rites, I am not very knowlegeble regarding their Mass rubrics. I see the problem now, when I first read about the SSPJ it seemed that the Ukranian Catholic Church was actively discouraging the Holy Rosary and Stations of the Cross as private devotions. Thank you for clarifying this for me.Yes, but many Church pray it as a public devotion before Mass, which is fine in the Roman Church.
When you replace the public prayer of the Byzantine Church, Matins, which should be done before the Divine Liturgy, with a Latin Devotion, it is a latinization.
I am not speaking of peoples private devotions, I am speaking of private devotions done publicly.
Again, this group was excommunicated and it was upheld by Rome, is there really anything else to discuss about it?
I think you got it all right except for the Church Slavonic issue. I believe the SSJK resists the change from Church Slavonic to Ukrainian.SSJK (Society of Saint Josephat Kuntsevych)
Father Basil Kovpak of Archeparchy of Lviv (Ivano-Frankivsk) of the Ukrainian Greek Catholic Church is the founder of the Society of Saint Josephat Kuntsevych, which is dependent upon SSPX, and has written a book in Ukrainian entitled “Persecuted Tradition”.
The SSJK rejects the right of the Church authorities to make de-latinization reforms. They opposes use of Slavonic instead of Ukrainian in the liturgy and are opposed to liturgical de-latinization, such as abandoning: Eucharistic Adoration (Monstrance), Rosary, and Stations of the Cross.
Ones I’ve seen documentedWhat Latinizations did the Ukranian Catholic Church undergo in the first place, and which do the SSPJ wish to retain?
From the photos I've seen of the SSJ, they don't appear to be eliminating the Iconostasis, and there churches (I think they have 2 or 3) have a mix of icons and statues.Thank you, somehow I reversed it. SSJK wants to use Slavonic similar to the use of Latin for Rituale Romanum in the Latin Church, rather than the vernacular.I think you got it all right except for the Church Slavonic issue. I believe the SSJK resists the change from Church Slavonic to Ukrainian.
Alex,Dear Friends,
We shouldn’t get too bogged down on the private devotions that exist among Eastern Catholics in discussing the Society of St Josaphat.
That is an interesting distinction: “in place of”. The bishops and clergy must insure that the liturgical traditions are accurate as feasable to respect the right of the faithful to receive their authentic ritual tradition. And also, the faithful must be assisted by the presbyter, when there is no conflict, in pious assemblies, such as groups meeting in the church for prayers offered together outside of the liturgy. So in a situation where there is no conflict in use of the church, such as might occur before Divine Liturgy, with Matins or the Prothesis, the faithful ought to be free to say a chaplet, or the chotki, even as a pious group in the church. In that case it would not be “in place of” Eastern public prayer.Alex,
The disucssion is not on what private devotions are used. It is on what private devotions are being used publicly in place of Eastern public prayer.
That is what is at issue, at least that is how I see it.
Good points! Some parishes are now having a celebration of the full cycle of the Hours prior to Sunday Divine Liturgy with Vespers the evening before, ending with the Sixth Hour just before the DL. DL is now often followed by the public reading of the “Prayers of Thanksgiving after Holy Communion.”That is an interesting distinction: “in place of”. The bishops and clergy must insure that the liturgical traditions are accurate as feasable to respect the right of the faithful to receive their authentic ritual tradition. And also, the faithful must be assisted by the presbyter, when there is no conflict, in pious assemblies, such as groups meeting in the church for prayers offered together outside of the liturgy. So in a situation where there is no conflict in use of the church, such as might occur before Divine Liturgy, with Matins or the Prothesis, the faithful ought to be free to say a chaplet, or the chotki, even as a pious group in the church. In that case it would not be “in place of” Eastern public prayer.
Unfortunately, the UGCC in America is much more Latinized than the Ruthenians - one UGCC church (which I think has since closed down) I went to ran through a spoken Liturgy in under 45 minutes and had no iconostas, while the other one has an iconostas you can see through, confessionals (the priest declined to hear my confession at the iconostas, and used the Roman ritual), and a Rosary before Liturgy. The Epistle there is read (not sung) by an altar boy facing the congregation, Novus Ordo-style.Sorry - I meant to say that the specific Latinizations that the society promotes are of less consequence than their model of church reunification.
The UGCC will never become part of a “Romanized Byzantine-Slavonic Rite.”
Cheers!
Alex