Priests Told: Deny Communion to Politicians Who Support Abortion

[JMJSHJ]

Doctor heal thy self. What I stated is FACT; “under a Romney administration, there will be exemptions for rape and incest.” that’s what Paul Ryan a catholic said during the Vice Presidential debate. A google search took me there in 2 mins. I really don’t like my honesty being questioned, not to mention that your attitude sounds like I don’t know what
I’m talking about… If you want to support Republicans unquestionably, that’s your business. I for one do not like the leftword lerch the Republicans have taken in the last
8 years. As an orthodox catholic I cannot support a political party that does not toe the catholic line on abortion despite the other party’s utter contempt for the subject.

I didn’t say it wasn’t a fact. What I succesfuly refuted is that there is a difference between the Republican party and the Democrat party in terms of the abortion issue. I didn’t question your honesty so don’t put words in my mouth. Also I don’t support Republican’s unquestionably as otherwise I wouldn’t have criticized what Akin and Murdoch have said. They are Republicans after all.

As a pro life Catholic who realizes that abortion is going to be a gradual process to eliminate, saying that there is no difference between 2 parties isn’t going to achieve that.

 

[LisaA]

Hey,Lisa! actually I voted for Romney the last election.(against my better judgement.)
We had a candidate with perfect catholic credentials, his name was Rick Senturom. But the republican electorate decided to go with a Massachusetts moderate. actually a catholic
middle party wouldn’t be such a bad idea. We could get back some Reagan democrats
and a party that not only understands conservative social policy but supports it.
By the by, I feel like I shot myself in the foot for supporting Romney!

I am relieved to hear you cared more about America than about the perfect candidate. I read a pretty compelling article that Romney lost to a great extent because people who knew they didn’t want Obama, felt Romney wasn’t “perfect” enough for them. This includes a lot of evangelicals who had suspicions of his Mormon faith. So truly I am happy to hear you didn’t stay home or vote for some 3rd party who had no chance.

Not to re-run the last election but on hindsight much as I loved Romney (I love Mormons and I love successful, intelligent, and moral businessmen in executive positions) I realize that his wealth, his non-mainstream faith and the Obama spin machine all worked together to keep enough people away from the polls. So maybe he wasn’t the best candidate. I’m not sure though that Santorum or Gingrich or any of those running would have done better.

What was truly horrible to me and to get back to the thread were the number of “Catholic” politicians who gave cover to those who should NOT have been voting for Obama but could justify it by saying well Joe Biden is a Catholic and if Obama were all that bad he wouldn’t be VP or Nancy Pelosi is Catholic and so it’s fine to vote for a pro abortion Democrat because obviously he supports him. Or how 'bout our “Catholic” HHS Secretary! Supporter of George Tiller the Killer! Isn’t that just special.

I think the Bishops tried to point out that faithful practicing Catholics cannot support candidates who are pro abortion but it was TOO LITTLE TOO LATE. Had they come out and clearly stated that Pelosi, Biden, Sebelius and that whole group of heretics on the life issues should NOT be given the Body and Blood of Christ, maybe some of the lukewarm would be Obama voters would have either changed their vote or at least not pulled the lever on the man that will go down in history as the biggest abortion supporter of all time.

Lisa

 

[einna]

see www.independent.ie/irish-news/priests-told-deny-communion-to-tds-who-support-abortion-29051662.html
A senior Vatican Cardinal, an American, weighing in on the Irish abortion debate, has said that in accordance with canon law priests should exclude politicians who support abortion from receiving communion.
For those interested, Cardinal Burke made these remarks, which are reported in the news article linked above, in an article on the abortion situation at www.catholicvoice.ie/features/2013/02/01/to_decriminalise_abortion_is_a_contradiction_of_the_most_fundamental_principle_of_the_legal_system

Sorry for all those who have started a political debate but I am going to respond to the topic posted. I do not believe it is right to deny communion to someone known to support abortion because it doesn’t state that he denies communion to others who are going against church morals, such as, those having sex before marriage or those cheating on their spouses, etc.

Now for all those who are going to say abortion is a much graver sin, I sin is a sin. Maybe it is going to take receiving the body and blood of Christ to change this persons soul. He certainly needs to be in church hearing God’s word.

 

[fix]

Sorry for all those who have started a political debate but I am going to respond to the topic posted. I do not believe it is right to deny communion to someone known to support abortion because it doesn’t state that he denies communion to others who are going against church morals, such as, those having sex before marriage or those cheating on their spouses, etc.

Now for all those who are going to say abortion is a much graver sin, I sin is a sin. Maybe it is going to take receiving the body and blood of Christ to change this persons soul. He certainly needs to be in church hearing God’s word.

It is about manifest public sin and scandal. And yes some grave sins are worse than others that is the teaching of the CC.

BTW, why must all sins be treated equally? Is that Catholic moral theology or post modern Americanism?

 

[LisaA]

Sorry for all those who have started a political debate but I am going to respond to the topic posted. I do not believe it is right to deny communion to someone known to support abortion because it doesn’t state that he denies communion to others who are going against church morals, such as, those having sex before marriage or those cheating on their spouses, etc.

Now for all those who are going to say abortion is a much graver sin, I sin is a sin. Maybe it is going to take receiving the body and blood of Christ to change this persons soul. He certainly needs to be in church hearing God’s word.

Please note that we are all aware there are probably people in the line to receive the Eucharist who are in a state of sin. The difference is that

THIS IS A PUBLIC SIN----promoting abortion as a public figure

IT IS LEADING OTHERS ASTRAY—how many have been convinced that the Church looks the other way regarding abortion when “Catholic” politicians make specious claims about being able to be Catholic and support abortion

IGet the difference?

Lisa

 

[LisaA]

It is about manifest public sin and scandal. And yes some grave sins are worse than others that is the teaching of the CC.

BTW, why must all sins be treated equally? Is that Catholic moral theology or post modern Americanism?

Fix your post hadn’t appeared when I wrote a similar note. Want to point out your important distinction. Too many people think “a sin is a sin” as if taking home a pen from work is equivalent to abortion or other grave sin. I think it is both post modern Americanism but I also hear this philosophy from my Evangelical sisters and brothers. Some of them don’t think there is ANY difference which IMO is neither supported by Scripture nor reflects the impact of one sin vis a vis another. Something about leading little ones astray deserving the tying of a millstone around the neck and being drowned provides a different interpretation to me.

Lisa

 

[fix]

Fix your post hadn’t appeared when I wrote a similar note. Want to point out your important distinction. Too many people think “a sin is a sin” as if taking home a pen from work is equivalent to abortion or other grave sin. I think it is both post modern Americanism but I also hear this philosophy from my Evangelical sisters and brothers. Some of them don’t think there is ANY difference which IMO is neither supported by Scripture nor reflects the impact of one sin vis a vis another. Something about leading little ones astray deserving the tying of a millstone around the neck and being drowned provides a different interpretation to me.

Lisa

I agree I just like to point out that the only “sin” this culture cares about is false equality. People see perceived inequality as some terrible awful injustice that must be excised. For some reason this notion trumps all else. We know very well that unequals must be treated unequally. That is a matter of justice. When people hear this this rebel.

 

[ProVobis]

It is about manifest public sin and scandal. And yes some grave sins are worse than others that is the teaching of the CC.

BTW, why must all sins be treated equally? Is that Catholic moral theology or post modern Americanism?

I doubt if modern Americanism has much to do with it. There used to be a old Catholic joke about a seminarian who learned that it’s okay to pray while smoking but not okay to smoke while praying.

Point is, it is about the wording. And any politician who public states “I support abortion…” is a fool, communion or no communion.

 

[fix]

I doubt if modern Americanism has much to do with it. There used to be a old Catholic joke about a seminarian who learned that it’s okay to pray while smoking but not okay to smoke while praying.

Look at the post I was replying to. The poster felt it was wrong to single out a politician that publicly supports killing unborn children because there are people committing fornication or contraception who will not be barred. Is that sound moral reasoning? Is it really logical to conclude that because a manifest sinner that promotes murder is banned from profaning the Eucharist and causing scandal we must also ban every other possible sin? Why? Because it is perceived as unequal? Since when is that the standard?

 

[ProVobis]

It is about manifest public sin and scandal. And yes some grave sins are worse than others that is the teaching of the CC.

BTW, why must all sins be treated equally? Is that Catholic moral theology or post modern Americanism?

I doubt if modern Americanism has much to do with it. There used to be a old Catholic joke about a seminarian who learned that it’s okay to pray while smoking but not okay to smoke while praying.

Point is, it is about the wording. And any politician who public states “I support abortion…” is a fool, communion or no communion.

(Sorry about the deletion; I was still editing the post while you were replying.)

 

[ProVobis]

The poster felt it was wrong to single out a politician that publicly supports killing unborn children because there are people committing fornication or contraception who will not be barred. Is that sound moral reasoning?

My understanding is that all of them should be barred from communion. Communion isn’t distributed on a the-less-your-grave-sin-is-the-better basis.

 

[LisaA]

I doubt if modern Americanism has much to do with it. There used to be a old Catholic joke about a seminarian who learned that it’s okay to pray while smoking but not okay to smoke while praying.

Point is, it is about the wording. And any politician who public states “I support abortion…” is a fool, communion or no communion.

Now that list would be long!

Whether they are called fools is one thing but quite another to claim that the Church has nothing to say regarding their pro abortion position. Again I wish that politicians making these statements had been roundly taken to task and the actual Church doctrine clarified. I remember Pelosi saying that the Church hadn’t really firmed up teaching on abortion and thus it was open to interpretation by great religious scholars such as herself Then we had Biden in the debate giving the old blather…well I wouldn’t chooose abortion but… Recently Andrew Cuomo, frothy mouthed about gun control, is promoting radical abortion expansion. I’ve heard he claims to be Catholic…

Unfortunately everyone was trying to be nice, give benefit of the doubt to these politicians. In doing so it was making a deal with the devil and we’ve now reaped what has been sown over decades of complacency.

Lisa

 

[J_Peterson]

BTW, why must all sins be treated equally? Is that Catholic moral theology or post modern Americanism?

To paraphrase Thomas Merton: would you be more dead if you were killed by an army as opposed to one man? Would somone guilty of a “smaller” mortal sin get less hell than someone guilty of a “larger” mortal sin? Maybe that is the case but it’s purly speculative.

 

[einna]

Please note that we are all aware there are probably people in the line to receive the Eucharist who are in a state of sin. The difference is that

THIS IS A PUBLIC SIN----promoting abortion as a public figure

IT IS LEADING OTHERS ASTRAY—how many have been convinced that the Church looks the other way regarding abortion when “Catholic” politicians make specious claims about being able to be Catholic and support abortion

IGet the difference?

Lisa

I get the difference also, but if a priest comes upon a young woman who openly is having premarital sex, a man having an extra marital affair, or a man he knows to take the Lord’s name in vain all the time, should he deny them communion?

 

[fix]

My understanding is that all of them should be barred from communion. Communion isn’t distributed on a the-less-your-grave-sin-is-the-better basis.

The canon is about manifest public sin. It is not about “equality”.

 

[einna]

It is about manifest public sin and scandal. And yes some grave sins are worse than others that is the teaching of the CC.

BTW, why must all sins be treated equally? Is that Catholic moral theology or post modern Americanism?

All sins are a failure to love God. The Catholic Church needs to post most grave, mortal sins in order of severity better so we can all know them,

 

[fix]

To paraphrase Thomas Merton: would you be more dead if you were killed by an army as opposed to one man? Would somone guilty of a “smaller” mortal sin get less hell than someone guilty of a “larger” mortal sin? Maybe that is the case but it’s purly speculative.

The fact is manifest public sin causes scandal. We have a distinction right there.

As an aside the CCC says some grave sins are worse than others.

All the talk about “equality” stems from our modern mind that values that over all else.

 

[fix]

All sins are a failure to love God. The Catholic Church needs to post most grave, mortal sins in order of severity better so we can all know them,

Do you need a list? Is genocide worse than impure thoughts? Both are objectively mortal sins. But, that is not the issue. The issue is scandal.

 

[J_Peterson]

The fact is manifest public sin causes scandal. We have a distinction right there.

As an aside the CCC says some grave sins are worse than others.

All the talk about “equality” stems from our modern mind that values that over all else.

What does that mean exactly though? Is it that hell is worse for those whose sins are public and cause scandal? Is it harder to be forgiven for the public sins and easier for private sins?This appears to make hell into a punishment that’s metted out by an angry God. It also leaves room for folks to point to others and say “they are much bigger sinners than me!”.

 

[ProVobis]

The canon is about manifest public sin. It is not about “equality”.

So who determines that “abortion should be rare” is a manifest public sin while “abortion should be illegal except for rape, incest, etc.” is not?

And how do you explain this distinction to a Polish or Hispanic immigrant who doesn’t understand English very well?