Priests Told: Deny Communion to Politicians Who Support Abortion

[Sonic]

Quick question, is regular murder also grounds for Excommunication, or would it suffice to just go to Confession about it?

I’m wondering about the consistency in the law. Or perhaps the standard is that killing an unborn child is that much worse than murder.

When it’s a mortal sin… yes.

All mortal sin requires a person to not receive communion until they have received the sacrament of reconciliation (confession). If a person is not repentant of any mortal sin and that sin is public, it often warrants a public action of denying that person communion. Excommunication is removed by going to confession. Depending on the gravity of the mortal sin, then it may require the person goes to the Bishop or (in extreme cases) the Pope for confession.

Please go to the Catholic Encyclopedia above and read the article on Excommunication. All go read the article on Anathema and notice the difference.

Communicate = a person who receives communion.

Ex - Communicate = A person not receiving communion.

 

[J_Peterson]

My understanding is that Paul Ryan does not believe in abortion in case of rape or incest however I think it was part of the Republican platform. Ryan was demonized by the Left for supporting a personhood amendment…that allowed them to put him into the same category as Todd Akin.
Lisa

So Ryan was willing to support abortion to get into office. How is that not supporting abortion?

 

[Ender]

So Ryan was willing to support abortion to get into office. How is that not supporting abortion?

Supporting a bill that restricts abortion, even if it allows some, is not immoral if that is all that can be achieved. Did you not read the comment from the USCCB in post #99? The church allows the “half a loaf is better than none” approach and there is no valid comparison between politicians who oppose all restrictions on abortion and those who continue trying to impose them.

Ender

 

[LisaA]

So Ryan was willing to support abortion to get into office. How is that not supporting abortion?

HE didn’t support abortion. The platform is the Party’s position but as with Democrats who claim they are pro-life, each individual candidate may have a different position.

If you are trying to make some perjorative remark about Ryan, you might actually look at the legislation he has introduced, to which he signed his name instead of a party document.

Nice try though.
Lisa

 

[ProVobis]

Supporting a bill that restricts abortion, even if it allows some, is not immoral if that is all that can be achieved.

The problem with this argument is that a politician can get around this by stating that he “opposes abortion except for rape, incest, etc.” instead of “keeping abortion legal for rape, incest, etc.” There is no moral difference between the two positions; however the first is restrictive, the second one sounds like it’s not.

I’ve even asked on another thread if there were any moral difference between “keeping abortion legal for rape, incest, etc” and “keeping abortion rare” and got some mixed responses. Seems to be more of a semantics game IMO.

 

[october_baby]

I’m curious- in the US context does this include Republican Catholic politicians such as former Governors like Arnold Schwarzenegger (California), Tom Ridge (Pennsyvlania), New York Mayor Rudy Giuliani, Senator Lisa Murkowski( who mysteriously seem to get a “free pass” from the Bishops) or just their Democratic counterparts like VP Joe Biden or the late Teddy Kennedy- denial of the Sacrament and possible excommunication is WAY too serious to be left to the vagaries of party politics!

Terry

Good point, the Republicans are as guilty, or guiltier of hypocritical behavior as the Democrats.

 

[LisaA]

Good point, the Republicans are as guilty, or guiltier of hypocritical behavior as the Democrats.

Sorry but that dog don’t hunt. It would be hypocritical of someone to claim not to support abortion and then vote for pro abortion policies. Although I don’t agree with Ahhnold or Rudy or some of the other pro abortion Republicans, they are not being hypocrites. In the case of Rudy, he’s not being a very good Catholic. Don’t know if Ahhnold is Catholic although he married one. At any rate they are in opposition to the overall Republican pro-life platform and are not hiding anything.

I saw a great cartoon today. It showed Obama saying we don’t kick children out of the country if they are here through no fault of their own. Then there was a cartoon of Nancy Pelosi saying “we abort children who want to be here through no fault of their own.”

Now THAT is standing squarely on both sides of the fence!

 

[october_baby]

My understanding is that Paul Ryan does not believe in abortion in case of rape or incest however I think it was part of the Republican platform. Ryan was demonized by the Left for supporting a personhood amendment…that allowed them to put him into the same category as Todd Akin.
Lisa

Todd Akin IS pro-life, no matter how clumsy he tried to toe the Republican political talking points. The biggest non-secret in US politics is the Republicans are ALMOST as bad as democrats when it comes to abortion.

 

[LisaA]

Todd Akin IS pro-life, no matter how clumsy he tried to toe the Republican political talking points. The biggest non-secret in US politics is the Republicans are ALMOST as bad as democrats when it comes to abortion.

ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE!!! Please check the platform, please look at each candidate’s position and voting record. There is NO COMPARISON between Democrats and Republicans. The Democrats have written this into their party platform. They had NARAL and Planned Parenthood executives on the stage with Obama at the DNC. Their poster girl Sandra Fluke is an abortion rights activist.

At the DNC they tried to get a group of pro life Democrats together and there were literally none!~ Some former Congressmen like Bart Stupak were there trying to rustle up support but the Dems have totally gone for abortion, and in their latest statement they want us to pay for it You did NOT hear anything like that from Republicans campaigning last year.

Please get your facts before making such erroneous statements.

As to Todd Akin, he and his fellow foot in mouth disease candidate Murdouick did UNTOLD damage to the Republican brand and to Republicans running for office. I hope they don’t try to run for anything in the future…what a couple of DISASTERS.

Lisa

 

[october_baby]

Sorry but that dog don’t hunt. It would be hypocritical of someone to claim not to support abortion and then vote for pro abortion policies. Although I don’t agree with Ahhnold or Rudy or some of the other pro abortion Republicans, they are not being hypocrites. In the case of Rudy, he’s not being a very good Catholic. Don’t know if Ahhnold is Catholic although he married one. At any rate they are in opposition to the overall Republican pro-life platform and are not hiding anything.

I saw a great cartoon today. It showed Obama saying we don’t kick children out of the country if they are here through no fault of their own. Then there was a cartoon of Nancy Pelosi saying “we abort children who want to be here through no fault of their own.”

Now THAT is standing squarely on both sides of the fence!

The fact of the matter is that the Republicans hired Karl Rove’s campaign committee to screen out Republicans who are conservative socially. I know from what I speak because
I’ve followed conservative politics for the past 20 years.

 

[october_baby]

ABSOLUTELY DISAGREE!!! Please check the platform, please look at each candidate’s position and voting record. There is NO COMPARISON between Democrats and Republicans. The Democrats have written this into their party platform. They had NARAL and Planned Parenthood executives on the stage with Obama at the DNC. Their poster girl Sandra Fluke is an abortion rights activist.

At the DNC they tried to get a group of pro life Democrats together and there were literally none!~ Some former Congressmen like Bart Stupak were there trying to rustle up support but the Dems have totally gone for abortion, and in their latest statement they want us to pay for it You did NOT hear anything like that from Republicans campaigning last year.

Please get your facts before making such erroneous statements.

As to Todd Akin, he and his fellow foot in mouth disease candidate Murdouick did UNTOLD damage to the Republican brand and to Republicans running for office. I hope they don’t try to run for anything in the future…what a couple of DISASTERS.

Lisa

The only difference beteewn Democrats and Republicans is that Democrats want abortion on demand and Republicans say no abortion except in the case of rape or incest, does
this sound like the catholic postion to you? As to Akin and Murdock both ARE pro-,life
isn’t this what catholics want? Their only crime is bringing up social issues when the
national party wanted NO mention of social issues.

 

[october_baby]

LisaA- I don’t want to alienate you, we should be natural allies, I just find your faith in the
Republican Party misguided. :console:

 

[LisaA]

LisaA- I don’t want to alienate you, we should be natural allies, I just find your faith in the
Republican Party misguided. :console:

I do not put faith in princes. However I think you greatly overstate the situation. The old “rape and incest” excuses are canards to help divide the pro-life ranks. In reality the number of abortions done because of rape or incest are a TINY TINY TINY fraction.

If you said I could wave a magic wand and have abortion outlawed except rape and incest I’d start waving like a rodeo queen making an entrance. If we hold out for perfection or must have the Catholic position or none, we will get NONE.

I think we are natural allies but I get very disturbed when someone tries to make the Democrat and Republican platform equivalent or nearly so. They are FAR FAR apart. Republicans and the few pro-life Democrats left have not succeeded in banning abortion but at least we are, little by little, working toward the day when abortion will be as much a horror as slavery.

I just don’t think it’s productive to paint everyone with the same brush. It gives the evil abortion supporters a pass and needlessly demeans those who are trying to save human lives.
Lisa

 

[october_baby]

I do not put faith in princes. However I think you greatly overstate the situation. The old “rape and incest” excuses are canards to help divide the pro-life ranks. In reality the number of abortions done because of rape or incest are a TINY TINY TINY fraction.

If you said I could wave a magic wand and have abortion outlawed except rape and incest I’d start waving like a rodeo queen making an entrance. If we hold out for perfection or must have the Catholic position or none, we will get NONE.

I think we are natural allies but I get very disturbed when someone tries to make the Democrat and Republican platform equivalent or nearly so. They are FAR FAR apart. Republicans and the few pro-life Democrats left have not succeeded in banning abortion but at least we are, little by little, working toward the day when abortion will be as much a horror as slavery.

I just don’t think it’s productive to paint everyone with the same brush. It gives the evil abortion supporters a pass and needlessly demeans those who are trying to save human lives.
Lisa

Thank you lisa, we agree to disagree, but God Bless you!

 

[JMJSHJ]

The only difference beteewn Democrats and Republicans is that Democrats want abortion on demand and Republicans say no abortion except in the case of rape or incest, does
this sound like the catholic postion to you? As to Akin and Murdock both ARE pro-,life
isn’t this what catholics want? Their only crime is bringing up social issues when the
national party wanted NO mention of social issues.

Have Republican legislation caused dozens of Catholic dioceses and organizations to sue a Republican President?

Are you not aware of Catholic teaching that says that Catholics can support candidates who will greatly reduce the number of abortions as morally permitted? Or do you presume to know more than the Hierarchy?

Akin and Murdoch may not have said anything bad that a Catholic should stop voting for them but they didn’t exactly answer it the best way to the US Electorate. As Catholics we should be as wise as a serpent. They clearly weren’t.

You are entitled to your opinions but certainly not your facts. When you look at all of the pro life legislation that has been enacted over the many years, it was with Republican control.

 

[LisaA]

Have Republican legislation caused dozens of Catholic dioceses and organizations to sue a Republican President?

Are you not aware of Catholic teaching that says that Catholics can support candidates who will greatly reduce the number of abortions as morally permitted? Or do you presume to know more than the Hierarchy?

Akin and Murdoch may not have said anything bad that a Catholic should stop voting for them but they didn’t exactly answer it the best way to the US Electorate. As Catholics we should be as wise as a serpent. They clearly weren’t.

You are entitled to your opinions but certainly not your facts. When you look at all of the pro life legislation that has been enacted over the many years, it was with Republican control.

Thank you for pointing out some relevant facts and issues. I understand the desire to rid the world of the scourge of abortion but I believe better to have part of something than all of nothing. I don’t like the rape and incest exceptions because I think for an argument to hold water it has to be consistent. But the reality is that these are such a tiny portion of the abortions in this country that I’d rather save 299,800 babies than none.

I grew up as a Democrat, registered as a Democrat and voted Democrat (sad to say I think I may have voted for Carter ) But they have become SO strident in the support of abortion at will, for any reason at any time and preferably paid for by someone else that I don’t know how any practicing faithful Catholic can support the party. Hopefully there are individual candidates who still support life and I would have no problem voting for them. But the party is totally off the reservation with respect to traditional values (gay marriage) and certainly issues of life.

As an aside today, I was reading about the woman who died after an abortion at 33 weeks. They had posted the clinics post abortion instructions and although I work in a medical clinic, I was almost sickened at the description of what the process entailed, not just for the child who is brutally killed but what the woman goes through. Truly this cannot be called a safe procedure. Further as was pointed out, there are more stringent requirements for VETERINARIANS than for abortion clinics. Minimally trained technicians perform certain portions of the procedure…remember the house of horrors clinic where an untrained teen was administering anesthesia? I think if the public knew what was going on behind those walls they would be a lot less complacent about “choice”
Lisa

 

[october_baby]

Have Republican legislation caused dozens of Catholic dioceses and organizations to sue a Republican President?

Are you not aware of Catholic teaching that says that Catholics can support candidates who will greatly reduce the number of abortions as morally permitted? Or do you presume to know more than the Hierarchy?

Akin and Murdoch may not have said anything bad that a Catholic should stop voting for them but they didn’t exactly answer it the best way to the US Electorate. As Catholics we should be as wise as a serpent. They clearly weren’t.

You are entitled to your opinions but certainly not your facts. When you look at all of the pro life legislation that has been enacted over the many years, it was with Republican control.

Doctor heal thy self. What I stated is FACT; “under a Romney administration, there will be exemptions for rape and incest.” that’s what Paul Ryan a catholic said during the Vice Presidential debate. A google search took me there in 2 mins. I really don’t like my honesty being questioned, not to mention that your attitude sounds like I don’t know what
I’m talking about… If you want to support Republicans unquestionably, that’s your business. I for one do not like the leftword lerch the Republicans have taken in the last
8 years. As an orthodox catholic I cannot support a political party that does not toe the catholic line on abortion despite the other party’s utter contempt for the subject.

 

[LisaA]

Doctor heal thy self. What I stated is FACT; “under a Romney administration, there will be exemptions for rape and incest.” that’s what Paul Ryan a catholic said during the Vice Presidential debate. A google search took me there in 2 mins. I really don’t like my honesty being questioned, not to mention that your attitude sounds like I don’t know what
I’m talking about… If you want to support Republicans unquestionably, that’s your business. I for one do not like the leftword lerch the Republicans have taken in the last
8 years. As an orthodox catholic I cannot support a political party that does not toe the catholic line on abortion despite the other party’s utter contempt for the subject.

And that is the attitude that got Obama elected. Between the purists who are holding out for the perfect “Catholic Party” (non existent) candidate and those who claim that you might as well vote for Obama since there is a minor exception in the Republican platform anyway, the most Pro Abortion, Anti Catholic president was elected.

But hey you stuck to your guns even if we were shot in the foot

Lisa

 

[october_baby]

And that is the attitude that got Obama elected. Between the purists who are holding out for the perfect “Catholic Party” (non existent) candidate and those who claim that you might as well vote for Obama since there is a minor exception in the Republican platform anyway, the most Pro Abortion, Anti Catholic president was elected.

But hey you stuck to your guns even if we were shot in the foot

Lisa

Hey,Lisa! actually I voted for Romney the last election.(against my better judgement.)
We had a candidate with perfect catholic credentials, his name was Rick Senturom. But the republican electorate decided to go with a Massachusetts moderate. actually a catholic
middle party wouldn’t be such a bad idea. We could get back some Reagan democrats
and a party that not only understands conservative social policy but supports it.
By the by, I feel like I shot myself in the foot for supporting Romney!

 

[Jerry-Jet]

Why do people support economic social services to the poor so much that they are willing to vote for people who are in favor of murdering innocent children?

Aren’t those lives more important than the poor’s needs?

If it was indeed wrong to enslave people–isn’t it much more wrong to kill people?

How can anyone face Jesus and explain to Him why they vote for people who are in favor of the legality of killing innocent unborn children?

If people really believe it is none of their business whether people abort children or not could they teach their children that abortion is OK and that Jesus would act as an abortionist and kill the unborn?

Jesus of course wouldn’t do that! If Jesus wouldn’t do that why should we be able to do that? Why would Jesus approve of us doing that?

Abortion is just plain old wrong. 10 trillion reasons for voting FOR a candidate do not outweigh the support of the legality of killing ONE unborn life!

If slavery is wrong for ONE person regardless of 10 trillion other reasons for voting for a candidate that supports slavery why wouldn’t the same be true for KILLING the unborn?

What would happen if every day in congress if a congressman spoke these sentiments?

I don’t think that some of the American people could take it. They would try to SILENCE the congressman but if he continued saying these things people would have to FACE the truth.

The way to get rid of abortion is to quit being polite about it. If KILLING of Jews in the holocaust is something that could not be tolerated–why is killing of the unborn tolerated?

Six million died in the holocaust. More than that have been killed by abortion so YES people abortion is WORSE than the holocaust.

God will judge all nations that support abortion.

It seems like our country has become the modern day Roman empire.

Pray for our country but most of all pray for Catholics that vote for people that support abortion and ALWAYS correct and rebuke them until the truth slices their heart so bad that they can’t take it anymore!

If Catholics didn’t support candidates who support abortion and if Catholic judges didn’t support abortion we wouldn’t have abortion in our country!

The Catholic Church doesn’t support abortion–it is people who claim to be Catholic that support abortion. If anyone supports abortion they excommunicate themselves from the Catholic church.

The bible tells us that murderers will not inherit the Kingdom of God.

I leave you with this–if you don’t want to go to Hell then don’t unrepentantly in a state of mortal sin support the legality of killing the unborn until your death.

Choose life–choose Heaven–choose abortion–choose Hell.

The choice is yours and if you have read this you won’t be able to claim that nobody ever told you that.

Catholic priests may not know whether they should serve communion to politicians that support abortion but God knows whether those politicians should approach the eucharist!

If a politician supports abortion and receives communion he SACRILEGES the Eucharist! That puts that person in a state of mortal sin if he knows what he has done is wrong and if he gives full consent of the will because the killing of the unborn is a grave matter!

To all Catholic political leaders–don’t sacrilege the eucharist! Support life and avoid Hell!